My My God God

I wanted to multi quote, but....fk that.

[FbodTrek]

Originally Posted by JesseCrx You kiddin? What do I mean by that? I mean that underlying the market specifics that got us into this mess, there’s what really drives bubbles and ultimately our eventual recovery from them. I’m talking about the way we think. Our attitudes. Specifically this stupid sense of invincibility and entitlement that people have nowadays! Over a period of time, our attitudes evolve like just about everything else. Try looking up old newspaper clips preceding the Great Depression and read for yourself. Americans had collectively become a rather proud, “we can’t possibly fail...too big to fail!” people, groomed by increasing prosperity and technological progress. But when the Crash happened anyway, it took several years of humbling scarcity before people corrected their thinking and started living more prudent lives. Only now our govt is blatantly rewarding FAILURE! That transformation in attitude took some time to occur…a lot more time than what we’ve gone through with the current recession. So, bottom-line, if I were asked when this financial shit storm was going to end, I would have to answer, “However long it takes for our attitudes to change.” Unfortunately, that may take a few years of living on “beans and rice” before that takes place. Clean up the national debt THEN we can talk about Robin Hood Healthcare

HERE HERE! I try and explain that to people and tehy give me the ole' look.

[Afroclipse]

Originally Posted by JesseCrx No, you're not. Your arguments are all over the place. If you're going to make synonymous references or analogies then state them and get back on track.

I never give up ever.

Originally Posted by JesseCrx The classic universal healthcare/socialized medicine debate....it's a fucking sham and I can't believe anyone would buy into it. I personally am totally against any form of socialized/govt run health care. I can hear the flames beginning grow with the chanting sound of "conservative trrrizts!! You're racist! You're anti-American!" "Bu-bu-bu-but what about the kids! What about the poor!? Care to debate the fact that there are so many kids in this country without health care!? You selfish, heartless bastard! We're a world superpower and we can't even give our people health care!!"/bleeding heart impersonation Care to debate the fact that I'm not responsible for someone elses kids or someone elses well being? Just because you can't afford health insurance for them or yourself then what the hell makes you think you have the right to take money out of MY pay check to support your bad life decisions? When you do that you are hurting MY ability to provide a better life for myself and MY family.

Easy to say when you are not in the situation, anyway the Govt will always care for the less fortunate no matter what you say. Just suck it up its out of our control

Originally Posted by JesseCrx In my opinion, a truly free market/private/competitive health care system is the answer to our health care problems. I honestly can't believe how anyone supports any type of government run health care, regardless of what you want to call it, once you understand how free markets work.

You under estimate the power of cooperate greed.

Originally Posted by JesseCrx Because of govt intervention and regulation we now have a bureaucratic shit storm...and what are the pigs suggesting?? MORE govt intervention! Wow, and whattya know the same fuckers in govt advocating this shit have their fingers in the pharm industry pie as well! (don't believe me? Look it up)

What Govt intervention? The health care system pretty much runs itself, are you talking about Obamacare? be specific on this intervention.

Originally Posted by JesseCrx In a truly free market system we'd all be paying CASH for all basic doctor checkups. Your average American would only need health insurance plans to cover major medical events. "Pay cash you say...but zOMG nobody will be able to afford that" I don't think so. . In a truly free market system health care will have to be COMPETITIVE to make money. This means providing the BEST services possible at the LOWEST prices to earn your service.

That would never work ever, you are assuming that these healthcare institutions aren't out to make money and not being endorsed by certain Pharm companies.

Originally Posted by JesseCrx Our government involvement in medicine is the exact reason medical prices have continued to rise. Since the "government" is paying for everything our system is milked for everything it's worth. Everything is charged at the MAXIMUM price and you are given the maximum number of tests. After all who cares as long as the "government" pays for it right? So now medical prices for tests, procedures, etc are being charged to the max to milk profits from the government guess what happens to insurance prices for others? Yep you guessed it. Since the everything is charged at the maximum the insurance company has to charge you a shit ton to cover itself because even though you aren't getting government help you'll still be getting charged the high prices created by it. So take away government input and, like I said earlier, the medical industry is FORCED to act like a competitive market. That means for them to make money they have to offer you the BEST service at the BEST prices. This of course causes prices to plummet just like it does with ANY technology backed/service industry. So what happens when prices plummet due to competition? Medical insurance can't keep charging you insane prices and keep your business. They are forced to become competitive as well and since they don't have to cover insanely inflated medical costs your rates drop DRAMATICALLY. So now that individual doctors offices are having to be competitive with each other and medical prices are dropping guess what this allows you to do....yes like I mentioned earlier you'll now just be able to pay CASH for your basic checkups throughout the year. Don't think it's possible? Well get this: There are a few truly free market medical clinics that try to compete in field. They don't get any medical assistance, don't take medicade or medicare, etc. Do you know what they charge for a basic doctor checkup for things like the common cold, etc? Answer: $35!!!!!!!!! The funny thing is that many people think that sounds insanely cheap but in reality it's still insanely good pay considering the most people don't actually have more than 5 minutes of contact with the actual doctor during a routine visit. He's making $35 of just minutes of work. And remember this is with free market clinics that are trying to compete in an unfair system. If the entire market was free prices could be even LOWER. So now think about that for a second. Let's just raise the price of the last example and say that a routine visit would cost you $50 cash. Now how many times do you go in for a routine office checkup per year? I think most would agree that the average American doesn't go to the doctor more than 3-4 times a year. So now why would the average person need to pay medical insurance every single month to cover routine checkups? The answer: You wouldn't. The only type of insurance you would need would be to cover MAJOR medical events/emergencies/etc. For the few routine visits you have per year you'd simply pay cash and that's that. Ok so now medical prices are cheaper, insurance is cheaper AND you don't need coverage any more for routine checkups? Do you know what that means? Yep. You now have even MORE money in your pocket each month to pay for the now CHEAPER services. The chain reaction of goodness continues even further. With all of this now occurring guess what happens to all of the charity sponsored hospitals that provide completely free medical services to those at the very bottom of the income ladder?

That is actually a very good idea and I love it, but unfortunately it will never happen, without medicare/medicaid the hospitals will crumble. You have no idea how many services they pay for. Looking at the price of equipment, its maintenance plus, payroll, well just overall day to day running of the hospitals shit might hit the fan. I love my job because it pays well, treats me good, plus gives me great bonuses and insentives, fuck you I like it like it is. I

I like constant money coming in to the hospital from the Govt, corrupt Pharm companies, and equipment producing companies(MRIs,syringes and shit), if we made money from just two of those shit will hit the fan for me. We can't survive on insurance companies and patients alone. The real world sucks man.

What you are saying is like a running back stating how he will run over the defense and stiff arm everybody then dive into the end zone, can it be done sure, but that's assuming that all goes well and the defenders are easy to beat. we all know better. Yet again that is a good idea on paper.

Originally Posted by JesseCrx Charity hospital services would be BOOMING. How's that? 1. Since medical prices have dropped to be market competitive now every donated dollar will go exponentially as far. The money that would only cover treating 50 children a day on the old system with inflated prices would now cover maybe 2,3 even 4 times as many kids. Hell it might even be more than that. 2. The middle class that makes up the largest number of charity donations now has MORE MONEY to give because they themselves aren't having to shell out shit tons of cash to cover their own expenses. Money going farther + more of it = poor people getting health care for free without illegally stealing it from the working mans pay check. Bottom line: Reduced government spending/control + truly free market = America becoming America again. But this belief that our govt can spend your money better than you can simply baffles me. Just look at how well they have handled Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid and just about anything else they dip their hands into! And you wanna give them more power??

You keep assuming that people are going to continue being sick(which they are), where do you think this money they are competing for comes from. There are a lot of serious downs in the industry, even now shit is slowing and cancellations are increasing, I want you to stop assuming everything is going to go to plan. The Govt might not spend money better than you but the can put it in places that you won't.

America becoming America again. I want know what decade this was.

[Afroclipse]

Originally Posted by Dopavash Stop right there. Who the hell do you think you are, tell me what to do with my money? Lets not be mistaken, you're not asking. You're demanding. That's was taxes are. They're coercive powers that force folks to pay. If you were asking me to pitch in for a universal healthcare plan, you'd get a great deal further than demanding it.

I pay taxes because my Govt as me to, my small contribution helps pay for many services that I may not like and some that I do. I have to do what I can for the collective, watch ants very closely.

They take a lot of money from me but to tell you the truth I don't even check to see who takes money out and what for, I even contribute more to Htown with a couple tickets a year. You are overly passionate about your dislike of the current govt, tell me when did you start noticing these things?

Originally Posted by Dopavash Tell you what, Drag out all your money in your pockets, bank accounts, credit cards, the title to your car and lay them on the table in front of you. Tell me how much it is, and then we'll discuss what we will do with all of it. Kay? Sound good?

LOL, thats just stupid, nobody in govt does anything remotely close to that. Thats the dopeyass in you.

Originally Posted by Dopavash I love seeing people start to lose an argument and realize it, then just say "Oh well I was just fomenting debate"

Oh I haven't lost buddy not by a long shot, you just won a battle because I ran out of ammo, but guess what 'I'm back i'm back no 16 bit like sega genesis'.

Originally Posted by Dopavash That's like the woman that keeps going back to the abusive boy friend "oh this time he'll change." You've done it a hundred times, its failed just as many, yet you want to try it again, all of this in the face of the greatest success this world has ever know (Free market capitalism). But you think its a good idea to try to change? My Ass.

Oh America wasn't built on free market along kimosabe Thats just the road it took because it was practical and businesses would have refused to go social. America was not a single entity then branched out like other Countries, it was a group of different states that came together as one, having the Govt just take control of everything would have been taken kindly by each group. now that it has united well who knows. I'm not advocating socialism just discussing the subject.

Originally Posted by Dopavash I think Obama wants socialism in America. His history and EVERYTHING he's done and said points right to it.

There are too many branches of business and shit all together so it would take coup to socialize this country.

This article is about the economic term. For the board game, see Monopoly (game). For other uses, see Monopoly (disambiguation).

MONOPOLY
In economics, a monopoly (from Greek monos / μονος alone or single + polein / πωλειν, to sell) exists when a specific individual or an enterprise has sufficient control over a particular product or service to determine significantly the terms on which other individuals shall have access to it.[1][clarification needed] Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition for the good or service that they provide and a lack of viable substitute goods.

[JesseCrx]

Originally Posted by Afroclipse I never give up ever.

Give up what? Playing devils pot stirring advocate?

You give yourself too much credit. What's next? You gonna find me too?

Originally Posted by Afroclipse Easy to say when you are not in the situation,

Spare me the whole "less fortunate" argument. I always hear bleeding heart stories about how people are products of their environment and how they were given a shitty hand at life. I've got news for ya...do something about it! There are people in this country who are deaf, blind or disabled and still manage to be productive members of society.

Nobody said life was easy, and I am not saying that people shouldn't offer a helping hand but in the end people have to want to help themselves...and I don't mean help themselves to charity or govt social programs...I mean help themselves and take person responsibility for themselves and their own lives.

Originally Posted by Afroclipse anyway the Govt will always care for the less fortunate no matter what you say. Just suck it up its out of our control

LOL! CARE??? You think the govt actually cares about the less fortunate??
And believe me, I think everyone has been putting up with it for a long time.

Originally Posted by Afroclipse You under estimate the power of cooperate greed.

(HI spell check must be turned off, eh?)

Originally Posted by Afroclipse What Govt intervention? The health care system pretty much runs itself, are you talking about Obamacare? be specific on this intervention.

What govt intervention? For starters, Social Security, HMO/Medicare-Medicaid.

The govt fucked all that up and you think they'll get it right with Obamacare?

Oh yeah, but the ideas for Obamacare sound good on paper.

the idea that it was a lack of government supervision that allowed ‘greed’ in the private sectors to lead the nation into crises that only our beltway saviors can solve is complete garbage!

Your government regulators were precisely the ones who imposed lower mortgage lending standards— and it was members of Congress (of both parties) who pushed the regulators, the banks and the mortgage-buying giants, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, into accepting risky mortgages, in the name of "affordable housing" and more home ownership. Presidents of both parties also jumped on the bandwagon.

Oh but now we need more regulation overhauls in healthcare!!

Originally Posted by Afroclipse That would never work ever, you are assuming that these healthcare institutions aren't out to make money and not being endorsed by certain Pharm companies.

Lowest price/highest quality ALWAYS wins out in a truly free market economy. People are always gonna go for the best bang for the buck.

Originally Posted by Afroclipse That is actually a very good idea and I love it, but unfortunately it will never happen, without medicare/medicaid the hospitals will crumble. You have no idea how many services they pay for. Looking at the price of equipment, its maintenance plus, payroll, well just overall day to day running of the hospitals shit might hit the fan. I love my job because it pays well, treats me good, plus gives me great bonuses and insentives, fuck you I like it like it is. I I like constant money coming in to the hospital from the Govt, corrupt Pharm companies, and equipment producing companies(MRIs,syringes and shit), if we made money from just two of those shit will hit the fan for me. We can't survive on insurance companies and patients alone. The real world sucks man. What you are saying is like a running back stating how he will run over the defense and stiff arm everybody then dive into the end zone, can it be done sure, but that's assuming that all goes well and the defenders are easy to beat. we all know better. Yet again that is a good idea on paper.

And I'll say what's been said in here many times..."WTF is the govt doing trying to run healthcare in the first place!" Look at their track record! It's FUBAR! Yet you still wanna keep a FUBAR system running even though it's fucking everyone over.

Originally Posted by Afroclipse The Govt might not spend money better than you but the can put it in places that you won't.

Like their own pockets? Call in the Czars!!!

[Afroclipse]

Originally Posted by JesseCrx Give up what? Playing devils pot stirring advocate? You give yourself too much credit. What's next? You gonna find me too?

Not if you tell me where you are

Originally Posted by JesseCrx Spare me the whole "less fortunate" argument. I always hear bleeding heart stories about how people are products of their environment and how they were given a shitty hand at life. I've got news for ya...do something about it! There are people in this country who are deaf, blind or disabled and still manage to be productive members of society. Nobody said life was easy, and I am not saying that people shouldn't offer a helping hand but in the end people have to want to help themselves...and I don't mean help themselves to charity or govt social programs...I mean help themselves and take person responsibility for themselves and their own lives.

I don't condone welfare or Govt assisted programs but that not what my point was.

Originally Posted by JesseCrx LOL! CARE??? You think the govt actually cares about the less fortunate?? And believe me, I think everyone has been putting up with it for a long time.

No they don't but they have to please their citizens by offering them such programs. propaganda, this subject is to vast.

Originally Posted by JesseCrx (HI spell check must be turned off, eh?)

Nice dodge I will try to spell right so you don't next time.

Originally Posted by JesseCrx What govt intervention? For starters, Social Security, HMO/Medicare-Medicaid. The govt fucked all that up and you think they'll get it right with Obamacare? Oh yeah, but the ideas for Obamacare sound good on paper. the idea that it was a lack of government supervision that allowed ‘greed’ in the private sectors to lead the nation into crises that only our beltway saviors can solve is complete garbage! Your government regulators were precisely the ones who imposed lower mortgage lending standards— and it was members of Congress (of both parties) who pushed the regulators, the banks and the mortgage-buying giants, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, into accepting risky mortgages, in the name of "affordable housing" and more home ownership. Presidents of both parties also jumped on the bandwagon. Oh but now we need more regulation overhauls in healthcare!!

Oh I see, so you can trust the Govt to supervise the companies but not take charge when the companies are sucking at there jobs.

Fannie mae situation was a attempt by Govt to try and stimulate the economy by opening up more loans with the hope that average Joe would pay some of his dues.

I think you have a problem with the Govt and the programs they have failed to make work. Like I have been saying a lot of shit sounds good on paper but its not guaranteed to work. What do you do when you come up with a program but your citizens abuse it and cause problems in the economy, you try to force something on them so they have to pay but they complain about freedoms, its just the way the country is my friend I just pay taxes and watch it unfold.

Originally Posted by JesseCrx Lowest price/highest quality ALWAYS wins out in a truly free market economy. People are always gonna go for the best bang for the buck.

Yes but that would put many hospitals out of business, I got Jayz's album bootleg for $3 a few days ago, compare that to $15. Your way will reduce the value of care due to lack of adequate pay for employees as well as have inferior equipment. Those CAT scans don't pay for themselves and cost a few million, its like pitting Olive Garden vs Mcdonalds, how long you think you will enjoy that Olive Garden lifestyle if its competing against Mcdonalds prices. Be serious and realistic, like I said I see where you are coming from but reality is a bitch,

Originally Posted by JesseCrx And I'll say what's been said in here many times..."WTF is the govt doing trying to run healthcare in the first place!" Look at their track record! It's FUBAR! Yet you still wanna keep a FUBAR system running even though it's fucking everyone over.

Whats so great about what we have now, medicare/medicaid is not in shambles I dont know where you got your shit from but its working like it should, its a fucking civic not a Bentley. Social security on the other hand I don't know much about so I won't chime in on that.

Originally Posted by JesseCrx Like their own pockets? Call in the Czars!!!

LOL, come on give you senator a little more credit,

[Flores]

response to all of afros 'points'.

The reason you don't see the point we are trying to make is because you are starting from a flawed assumption on why things work.

Every one of your arguments/points presumes that because government has been involved in something for the past 50+ years, that 'thats the way it is'.

That FACTS are:

1) The government is not supposed to be involved in these types of projects. thats not their charter, and unless you squinch up your eyes, put your hands in front of your face, and hum very loudly, there is no way any rational human being could pretend they haven't been way over the line for many years. However, if you use the same flawed logic that you are, it's ok, because after you let the government push back the limits of their power a bit, the next time they want to, you have a precedent that says it's ok for them to do so.

2) The reason it's called the law of supply and demand is because it's a NATURAL law, like gravity or motion. just because the results of those laws are inconvenient, doesn't mean they aren't still in force. The course of action your supporting/advocating fundamentally ignores the laws of supply and demand, by creating a ponzi scheme, essentially passing the buck, and shifting the burden of responsibility away from the people who benefit, and onto 'the government', who doesn't actually pay, but takes credit for 'fixing' a problem. In this way, it becomes possible for our government to take money away from us, spend twice as much as they pull in, and still make it our fault when their flawed systems fail. The consequences of ignoring those laws in your policies result in corrections in the systems your manipulating. The LOGICAL result of massive government investment in health care will be a huge boom in health care, followed by a massive bust in the health care system, when the government trys to transfer the debt burden around.

3) The existing government programs are inefficient, too large, and too slow compared to their private sector equivalents.
And before you talk about how terrible health insurance companies are, consult your history book. The current system of HMOs, that your company is FORCED to offer you, if you have a job, by law. That right, the HMO system was created by the government to force employers to buy into a hugely bureaucratic system, that is ripe with inefficiency, corruption, and only exists to grow itself.

I notice also you seem to presume 'profit' is some evil motivator, that forces decisions people make about things completely wrong. Yet you ignore the governments arbitrary decisions? Their 'profit' is more growth, more power, and bigger government. They realize that those things result in more money into their pockets, but not through anything they contribute directly.


Oh and, medicare/Medicaid costs are accelerating, while the money being paid into them is staying the same or going down. Because it's a ponzi scheme. And you don't have as many people paying in now as you have pulling out AND the costs of subsidized medicine are artificially high, those dollars also don't go as far, the 'perfect storm' has been put in place for a national health care crisis. and now we get to hear about 'too big to fail' 'emergency measures' and 'must have a public option for health care' to 'save' us from a fucked up policy.

[Dopavash]

Originally Posted by Afroclipse I pay taxes because my Govt as me to, my small contribution helps pay for many services that I may not like and some that I do. I have to do what I can for the collective, watch ants very closely. They take a lot of money from me but to tell you the truth I don't even check to see who takes money out and what for, I even contribute more to Htown with a couple tickets a year. You are overly passionate about your dislike of the current govt, tell me when did you start noticing these things?

Because they Ask you to? What happens if you don't? They throw you in jail, by force. Is that asking? Hell no. Its compulsion. You are overtly in love with the government. Who in the hell put it in your mind that the government has ever been a benevolent force?

Originally Posted by Afroclipse LOL, thats just stupid, nobody in govt does anything remotely close to that. Thats the dopeyass in you.

Sure they do. That's exactly what you want to do, through the government. that's the whole point of an income tax. For you not to see that is the ignorant idiot in you.

Originally Posted by Afroclipse Oh I haven't lost buddy not by a long shot, you just won a battle because I ran out of ammo, but guess what 'I'm back i'm back no 16 bit like sega genesis'.

You lost this argument before it began. Like Flores said, you're working from an extremely flawed premise, along with a sheer lack of historical and sociological knowledge.

Originally Posted by Afroclipse Oh America wasn't built on free market along kimosabe Thats just the road it took because it was practical and businesses would have refused to go social. America was not a single entity then branched out like other Countries, it was a group of different states that came together as one, having the Govt just take control of everything would have been taken kindly by each group. now that it has united well who knows. I'm not advocating socialism just discussing the subject.

Wow. That is the single most false, stupid and ignorant comment that has EVER been made on this site. OF COURSE this nation was founded on a free market. It was built on personal freedoms and individual liberties too. Read a freaking history book.

Originally Posted by Afroclipse There are too many branches of business and shit all together so it would take coup to socialize this country.

Or a steady encroachment, one that's been going on for 100 years.

I know what a monopoly is, and, the only entity in this country that holds any monopolies is the Federal Government.

[VolksFaggin]

I never meet someone as seriously flawed as Afro is, he makes Gunz look like a conservative in comparison.


I miss Gunz. This guy is stupid and no fun, like debating on the playground with a 4 year old.


Gunz please come back.


BTW Afro, just because you work at a hospital doesn't make you smart. Please let us know what hospital you work at so we can be taken to another one in case of a issue, I would like to get medical service from a place that hires people with a education.

[blackout01]

Originally Posted by Afroclipse View Post Oh America wasn't built on free market along kimosabe Thats just the road it took because it was practical and businesses would have refused to go social. America was not a single entity then branched out like other Countries, it was a group of different states that came together as one, having the Govt just take control of everything would have been taken kindly by each group. now that it has united well who knows. I'm not advocating socialism just discussing the subject.

OMG 4REALZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ????

[VolksFaggin]

I am not sure if he understands who the Founding Fathers were.

[blackout01]

Originally Posted by VolksFaggin I am not sure if he understands who the Founding Fathers were.

or WHAT they were as well. Or better yet what they stood for.

[VolksFaggin]

I wonder if he's ever heard of the Boston Tea Party.

I bet you money he calls them slave owning crackers who raped every slave they saw, justsayin

[Dopavash]

Originally Posted by Afroclipse I don't condone welfare or Govt assisted programs but that not what my point was. No they don't but they have to please their citizens by offering them such programs. propaganda, this subject is to vast.

You've done nothing so far but defend these Statist programs. That comes pretty damned close to condoning.

The Government's role is not to please anyone, but to protect our individual liberties and our chosen way of life. Living off of the government, thus being a tax eater, thus living off of my income should NEVER be an option.

Originally Posted by Afroclipse Oh I see, so you can trust the Govt to supervise the companies but not take charge when the companies are sucking at there jobs. Fannie mae situation was a attempt by Govt to try and stimulate the economy by opening up more loans with the hope that average Joe would pay some of his dues.

I'm pretty sure he just laid out why the government failed at supervision, and was in fact directly responsible, if only in (LARGE) part.

To stimulate the economy? LOL! Look how great that worked out! Lets do it to healthcare!

Originally Posted by Afroclipse I think you have a problem with the Govt and the programs they have failed to make work. Like I have been saying a lot of shit sounds good on paper but its not guaranteed to work. What do you do when you come up with a program but your citizens abuse it and cause problems in the economy, you try to force something on them so they have to pay but they complain about freedoms, its just the way the country is my friend I just pay taxes and watch it unfold.

Of course he has a problem with failed Government programs, and you should too.

So, you're making an argument against social programs now? We know that nothing works like it does on paper. We've seen social programs fail time and time again (Social Security, both medicare and medicaid, Welfare, Unemployment etc); None of them correct the problem they're designed to.

Originally Posted by Afroclipse Yes but that would put many hospitals out of business, I got Jayz's album bootleg for $3 a few days ago, compare that to $15. Your way will reduce the value of care due to lack of adequate pay for employees as well as have inferior equipment. Those CAT scans don't pay for themselves and cost a few million, its like pitting Olive Garden vs Mcdonalds, how long you think you will enjoy that Olive Garden lifestyle if its competing against Mcdonalds prices. Be serious and realistic, like I said I see where you are coming from but reality is a bitch,

Reality is truly a bitch. Particularly to you because, in reality, McDonalds and Olive Garden ARE competing. I think they're both doing great just fine, too. I think that's pretty representative of your understanding of economics.

Originally Posted by Afroclipse Whats so great about what we have now, medicare/medicaid is not in shambles I dont know where you got your shit from but its working like it should, its a fucking civic not a Bentley. Social security on the other hand I don't know much about so I won't chime in on that. LOL, come on give you senator a little more credit,

Medicare is not in Shambles? It has a $36TRILLION unfunded liability. How in God's name is that not in shambles? It's going to be bankrupt in the next 15 years. How is that not in shambles? Social programs account for half, HALF of every dollar our government spends.

[Dopavash]

Originally Posted by VolksFaggin I never meet someone as seriously flawed as Afro is, he makes Gunz look like a conservative in comparison. I miss Gunz. This guy is stupid and no fun, like debating on the playground with a 4 year old.

Just like....Smoochie Queen.

[pimpcain]

Originally Posted by KillaCam I wanted to multi quote, but....fk that.

a political cartoon defending obama? man, if only i could find some of those criticizing him, then we could have a fair debate that would be right on your level! lots of pictures, not so many words!

[Dopavash]

Originally Posted by pimpcain a political cartoon defending obama? man, if only i could find some of those criticizing him, then we could have a fair debate that would be right on your level! lots of pictures, not so many words!

[Replica]

Originally Posted by Afroclipse Whatever will the children do when Obama doesn't get re-elected and a much whiter oh sorry better president comes in.

You're the only one that brings up race. Do you have a problem with our current president's ethnicity?

Originally Posted by pimpcain a political cartoon defending obama? man, if only i could find some of those criticizing him, then we could have a fair debate that would be right on your level! lots of pictures, not so many words!

Was it really defending? or are you being the stereotypical nutcase?.....let me think...........

[Dopavash]

Do you actually know anything about the subject or are you just blindly defending Dear Leader. Hmmm, let me think....