People sure love Craig lieberman!!

[SprayedAccord]

http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB24&Number=67670882&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
:roflmao: :roflmao:

[sw20turbo]

bwahahahahahahahaha :roflmao: He got owned!



by the way Bollywood is the shit!

[SILVER]

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
dude's got money, but money doesnt buy taste

[AmginE]

he just plays the market well. Same thing bill gates did, and bill gates is rich.

Compare the cars he drives, and the cars he promotes. He's just selling to the general public what they want. It was immature of all those people on the forum to even talk shit, just ask the thread to be locked because it was in the wrong forum.

Really, the ... inaccurately portray and exploit import car culture, and give fuel to a whole new breed of retards...

is VERY small compared to the market that likes F&F and likes the crap Lieberman sells. If i was in his position, i would do the same damn thing. I would sell what the public wants, to the public. And reap the profit from it.

[AmginE]

This goes along the same lines as a guy who owns a few Hyundai dealerships.

He may sell cars that aren't considered "great" in the import tuner culture, but i doubt he drives one of said cars. I wonder how many cars that you see "made" by Lieberman, that he actually drives.

[EET FUK]

This goes along the same lines as a guy who owns a few Hyundai dealerships.

He may sell cars that aren't considered "great" in the import tuner culture, but i doubt he drives one of said cars. I wonder how many cars that you see "made" by Lieberman, that he actually drives.

are you a fucking retard?

the featured Supra from the first movie was owned by Lieberman, as well as the Skyline featured in the second.

[AmginE]

are you a fucking retard?

the featured Supra from the first movie was owned by Lieberman, as well as the Skyline featured in the second.

no, i'm not. So it was owned? Who the fuck cares? You really think he drove that to work everyday? I'm not saying he has excellent taste, but he did play the market well. If it wasn't him doing it, someone else would have.

[SILVER]

no, i'm not. So it was owned? Who the fuck cares? You really think he drove that to work everyday? I'm not saying he has excellent taste, but he did play the market well. If it wasn't him doing it, someone else would have.

the thing is the people hate him becasue he played the market well on whose expense? indirectly he could be the reason of so many accidents caused by ricers, even the K-mart bust. im not saying he caused that but sure are more ugly ass stickered cars on the street

just my opinion

[AmginE]

the thing is the people hate him becasue he played the market well on whose expense? indirectly he could be the reason of so many accidents caused by ricers, even the K-mart bust. im not saying he caused that but sure are more ugly ass stickered cars on the street

just my opinion


So, if he indirectly caused that, the people who MADE the parts on those cars that he showed, are responsible too.

That's like saying after i saw spider man i bought a costume, jumped off a roof, and died, it was their fault i killed myself.

[widebaudi]

i thought the supra was changed to that form, it didnt look like that before f&f got their hands on it.

[Gooback]

^^ thats correct, even in the video interviews he was in he admitted hating what they had done to the car. Just like Jason said he may own the cars but doesnt drive them. Yes what they did to his cars was rediculous however its what he makes his living off of. Some may consider it exploitation or using the market to his advantage bt honestly who the fuck cares. He is one hell of a business man to do what he does and be able to make a hell of a lot of money out of the "scene". If his car gets riced out and other morons follow his "trends" thats their fault not his, kinda like the lead the hoarse to water but cant make him drink thing. He cant be held accountable for followers....

[johnnie]

^^ thats correct, even in the video interviews he was in he admitted hating what they had done to the car. Just like Jason said he may own the cars but doesnt drive them. Yes what they did to his cars was rediculous however its what he makes his living off of. Some may consider it exploitation or using the market to his advantage bt honestly who the fuck cares. He is one hell of a business man to do what he does and be able to make a hell of a lot of money out of the "scene". If his car gets riced out and other morons follow his "trends" thats their fault not his, kinda like the lead the hoarse to water but cant make him drink thing. He cant be held accountable for followers....


The word that applies here would be sellout. He's not awesome or innovative for doing what he's doing right now. He's just the first one the makers of tf&tf got to. There are a lot of people that would do what he did. Honestly I wouldn't, yeah I'd like a fast car and need money but it's not worth getting into projects that aren't really me. I don't care that he does what he does and he's not holding a gun to the head of the peeps that follow views portrayed in the movie. However he is still a sellout and basically shitting on people who aren't. It's like a poster on these forums throwing up bullshit post all day because someone paid him to. Well yeah he got paid but it's still bullshit and that part I think sucks.

[johnnie]

no, i'm not. So it was owned? Who the fuck cares? You really think he drove that to work everyday? I'm not saying he has excellent taste, but he did play the market well. If it wasn't him doing it, someone else would have.

See post above. Bill gates and this guy are not even in the same universe. I can at least respect bill for providing a line of product that's halfway usefull. Bill also isn't selling himself out he's pretty much pimping a lot of other people. Craig is just whoring himself out to the biggest buyer. Kinda like a madam and a prostitute.

[:eek3:]

:roflmao:

[Gooback]

Selling himself out how? You act like hes like an "OG" of modding cars or something.....

Where is your logic in calling him a sellout? He wasnt a part of the import scene when it was first there all he did was buy a car and got offered cash to let a movie fix it up. His car helped promote a movie weather you liked it or not i gauruntee you saw the both of them.... as I said, a hell of a business man. Just becuase you dont like what he does to make money, he still made money off you. Him sellout, or you sucker? :dunno:

[I HATE JDM]

HOW MANY HERE ACTUALLY KNOW HIM? craig rocks...the skylilne IS driven around. it is currently at magnaflow in california. the car is gorgeous in person. if it wasnt for craig many of us wouldnt have what we do now. he helped promote and advance the scene. for better and worse. but he never sold out. it never amazes me how people can talk shit about someone they dont know and have never met. all you people know are what you read and you should keep in mind not everything you read is right.people on the forum linked are very immature. i hate to see people on this board acting the same. but it is a free country. just dont start crying when someone acts this way towards you and your car/career

[johnnie]

Selling himself out how? You act like hes like an "OG" of modding cars or something.....

Where is your logic in calling him a sellout? He wasnt a part of the import scene when it was first there all he did was buy a car and got offered cash to let a movie fix it up. His car helped promote a movie weather you liked it or not i gauruntee you saw the both of them.... as I said, a hell of a business man. Just becuase you dont like what he does to make money, he still made money off you. Him sellout, or you sucker? :dunno:

Hehe so I guess you respect drug dealers and anyone willing to make money off of someone else. If you do that's ok I have nothing against it. Though I do posses values and would try my best not to compromise them for the allmighty dollar. Everywhere you see his post he talks about how they didn't listen to him and that he was just in it for the money. That's when he sold out. When he said ok I'll let you make a dumb ass movie and I'll be a part of it because you are paying me and not because it portrays what I know to be reality. Like I said I can only say this because I've seen the mans post saying he wasn't listened to and that he knew shit was wrong but stayed in it for the green. I saw both of them yes. I was naive at first and even payed for the first one and bought it on dvd. I almost started ricing out my civic. Then I realized I wanted to be able to drive the car and enjoy it rather then put cheap parts on it because I didn' t have money. Yes he made money off of me but that goes back go the fact that anyone can make money off of anyone. Drug dealers make money off of addicts no matter how old or who they are do you think them to be good business men too? I'm just speaking of the fact that he sold out what he new to be true just to get paid. I work for a company, my company sometimes bends the truth to it's customers. Would I ever do this if asked? No because I know I can get another job anywhere. Same with Craig's situation, had it been me I wouldn't have done it if I knew it was going to be untrue. I mean after all he had a decent car and what seemed to be money already coming in. Anything past that was just a choice on his part to sell out what he knew to be true. You don't have to be an og to sell yourself out, you just have to choose to do so and he did. For that I don't think him that great at all.

[.:IceMan:.]

take today's clothes for example into comparison....

to me its ugly but to you its cool....those that like it will buy it and those that dont, wont.

why hate on the people who make the money off of it? because your not making any?

if a company offered you money to do what he does, for the right price, you'd "sellout" aswell...but ofcourse since your not being offered the money, you'll say "no i wouldnt, i dont care how much money we're talking about"

hows a million sound?

[.:IceMan:.]

Hehe so I guess you respect drug dealers and anyone willing to make money off of someone else. If you do that's ok I have nothing against it. Though I do posses values and would try my best not to compromise them for the allmighty dollar. Everywhere you see his post he talks about how they didn't listen to him and that he was just in it for the money. That's when he sold out. When he said ok I'll let you make a dumb ass movie and I'll be a part of it because you are paying me and not because it portrays what I know to be reality. Like I said I can only say this because I've seen the mans post saying he wasn't listened to and that he knew shit was wrong but stayed in it for the green. I saw both of them yes. I was naive at first and even payed for the first one and bought it on dvd. I almost started ricing out my civic. Then I realized I wanted to be able to drive the car and enjoy it rather then put cheap parts on it because I didn' t have money. Yes he made money off of me but that goes back go the fact that anyone can make money off of anyone. Drug dealers make money off of addicts no matter how old or who they are do you think them to be good business men too? I'm just speaking of the fact that he sold out what he new to be true just to get paid. I work for a company, my company sometimes bends the truth to it's customers. Would I ever do this if asked? No because I know I can get another job anywhere. Same with Craig's situation, had it been me I wouldn't have done it if I knew it was going to be untrue. I mean after all he had a decent car and what seemed to be money already coming in. Anything past that was just a choice on his part to sell out what he knew to be true. You don't have to be an og to sell yourself out, you just have to choose to do so and he did. For that I don't think him that great at all.
as far as the drug dealer comment goes - thats comparing apples to oranges, one is illegal and the other is not


you cant hate the man for making a living...he's not doing it illegally johnnie.

[johnnie]

HOW MANY HERE ACTUALLY KNOW HIM? craig rocks...the skylilne IS driven around. it is currently at magnaflow in california. the car is gorgeous in person. if it wasnt for craig many of us wouldnt have what we do now. he helped promote and advance the scene. for better and worse. but he never sold out. it never amazes me how people can talk shit about someone they dont know and have never met. all you people know are what you read and you should keep in mind not everything you read is right.people on the forum linked are very immature. i hate to see people on this board acting the same. but it is a free country. just dont start crying when someone acts this way towards you and your car/career


I do not know this man and am not saying what I say from personal knowledge of him. I have however pointed out that he himself admitted that he knows that he's just in this for money and pretty much is laughing all the way to the bank. As for talking shit. Well opinions are like assholes and it's a free country. I do happen to agree with most of the opinions and see how they could have come about. Even Craig has to know that his public actions would have pissed off people in this way. If I acted in the way craig has then I really wouldn't hold it against anyone being critical of my work. :)

[Mobil1]

hahahahah he does suck.

[johnnie]

as far as the drug dealer comment goes - thats comparing apples to oranges, one is illegal and the other is not


you cant hate the man for making a living...he's not doing it illegally johnnie.


I don't hate him for making a living. I don't hate him at all. I'm just saying that money is not a reason to lie or be a part of lies. As for the drug dealer comment, I'm not talking about the legality. I'm talking about the will to make money off of someone elses stupidity. Just the same as selling stuff you know doesn't work in the for sale forums, at least to me.

[johnnie]

why hate on the people who make the money off of it? because your not making any?

if a company offered you money to do what he does, for the right price, you'd "sellout" aswell...but ofcourse since your not being offered the money, you'll say "no i wouldnt, i dont care how much money we're talking about"

hows a million sound?


It depends on what kind of thinker you are. I think like matt daemon's character in good will hunting. You want to pay me a load of money to do some office work for you. Trouble is that office work doesn't just affect me getting money it affects joe blow down the street and so on. All I've ever wanted was honest money for an honest days work that didn't involve me compromising my values. Honestly I've looked at my past a lot lately. I could be so much further had I just let my personal values be bent or had I just lied here or there. I prefer to sleep well at night knowing that I never had to do so to get what I have now.

[axio]

I'd rice the piss out of whatever car they gave me to work on for a movie. If I had a bigass company like APC saying they'll give me a few million to feature their parts on a car that is going into a big budget movie I'd say hell yea.

Everyone has their price, and everyone who says they don't is a liar and should be shot in the face by the NRA.

[johnnie]

I'd rice the piss out of whatever car they gave me to work on for a movie. If I had a bigass company like APC saying they'll give me a few million to feature their parts on a car that is going into a big budget movie I'd say hell yea.

Everyone has their price, and everyone who says they don't is a liar and should be shot in the face by the NRA.

Well if you like craig had a good car and knew the difference between a decent looking street car and rice and still riced out the car then you probably didn't care about your car that much in the first place. I have a stock honda civic. Would I let someone use it for a movie like fast and the furious and pay me to do so? Yes. That is all I would do because it's just a civic. I can get another one. If the movie was something like the fast and the furious I'd then sell the car for whatever price someone wanted to pay for it right away, then start on a better car. How is this different from craig you ask? Because I don't mind him loaning his car to the movie production and getting paid for that. I do mind that he was further involved in the movie and chose not to say anything about the retartedness that was going on and or pull out. My point is that he knew the truth about the production and didn't really care to do anything about it. I personally would have pulled out if possible or denounced the whole thing. As far as the everyone has a price. To some people the price for them to sell themselves out is just too high for some movie company to pay. I'd lie to save my family but I wouldn't lie just to get paid. See the diff? Same action but the price is someone's life vs money. That's way over the top but my point stands that you set the price and craigs wasn't very high.

[glassuser]

This is all idiocy.

[Gooback]

johnnie i see your passionate about how you feel and all but you really need to picka better battle here, your complaint or what you hold against him really has no grounds for doing so. I think you are a little upset becuase the man is making money..... regardless of weather you like it or not its legal and hes doing a good job at it, dont hate the playa hate the game :cool:

[johnnie]

johnnie i see your passionate about how you feel and all but you really need to picka better battle here, your complaint or what you hold against him really has no grounds for doing so. I think you are a little upset becuase the man is making money..... regardless of weather you like it or not its legal and hes doing a good job at it, dont hate the playa hate the game :cool:


Hmm you seem to not be getting what I am saying. I never said it was not legal. Selling cigs is not illegal but it does cause cancer. I don't have anything against craig at all. He can make all the money he likes it doesn't bother me. I'm more intrested in how I'm going to make money and pay bills :). Actually I just feel bad because people these days think it's all about getting paid. I was really glad those peeps posted up on craigs post because while I don't dislike craig in the slightest, I do think that getting paid is not what it's all about. This didn't have to be about craig, it could be anybody who admitted they were in it for the money and knew they were lying or allied with some group that is lying only to get paid. It's the same as you coming into a parts shop and me knowing that the owner is selling you a part with a problem but not speaking up because he pays me. That's what Craig is doing. Understand I don't convict craig for this movie or anything that resulted from it. I just agree that he's a sellout. I define sellout as someone who sells something out to whomever will pay them. This is not always a bad thing but in Craigs case he sold himeself to the highest bidder. I really wouldn't care if he didn't know any better but don't come back around and say I knew it was bullshit thanks for the money suckers. That's more of a slap in the face.


Oh and I'm not really passionate about the subject. I mean I have strong beliefs but I'm more just passing time at work cause it's a slow day :)

[accord]

Can't Knock The Hustle .

[johnnie]

Can't Knock The Hustle .

All money isn't good money.

[UgotRipped7]

All money isn't good money.

true. but even at that, i still wish i had a whole lot more.

[Gooback]

dude seriously, your counter arguements are things that cause death or are illegal. You think any of the money in your posession is actually "pure". Shit no, at one point your money was in the hands of a criminal does that mean that the money you made is any better than his becuase of how you attained it?

[Mobil1]

Everyone has their price, and everyone who says they don't is a liar and should be shot in the face by the NRA.im a member of the NRA. :D

[johnnie]

dude seriously, your counter arguements are things that cause death or are illegal. You think any of the money in your posession is actually "pure". Shit no, at one point your money was in the hands of a criminal does that mean that the money you made is any better than his becuase of how you attained it?


Who knows where my money in pocket comes from. Could have been in the hands of a dying person the night before. What I do know is that I didn't lie or let people be lied to to get that money. I took my ass to work and got my paycheck. Hell no my money isn't better then his, it's money and that's it. I'm not even trying to say I'm the better person. I just don't agree with making money in the way that he did. That is by knowingly going with a lie and then telling people you knew it was a lie but that you didn't do anything because you were getting paid. See my example about you and me in a part store. I don't tell you that the turbo is damaged because I want to get paid. It's not illegal for me to do this but it is wrong wouldn't you agree?

[the Asshats]

This thread is stupid... anyone on here would give there car to a movie if they got paid millions to do it... I don't care how custom it is.. money can replace custom. :)

Quit your bitching you would do the same thing.. Props to Craig for doing what you all wish you could do.

[the Asshats]

HOW MANY HERE ACTUALLY KNOW HIM? craig rocks...the skylilne IS driven around. it is currently at magnaflow in california. the car is gorgeous in person. if it wasnt for craig many of us wouldnt have what we do now. he helped promote and advance the scene. for better and worse. but he never sold out. it never amazes me how people can talk shit about someone they dont know and have never met. all you people know are what you read and you should keep in mind not everything you read is right.people on the forum linked are very immature. i hate to see people on this board acting the same. but it is a free country. just dont start crying when someone acts this way towards you and your car/career


:wrd: :rock:

[topsecretSUPRA]

I know Craig personally and he really is a great guy. He's just often misunderstood. He has been in this scene WAAAAAAAY before the fast and the furious movie. Him and I used to compete head to head in car shows across the nation when his Supra(the one that was in TF&F) was also yellow. People make it seem that he just started getting in to the scene when TF&F started. He's only modding these cars to the way hollywood wants it. He doesn't have bad taste whatsoever when it comes to fixing up vehicles. The reason why you see all these rediculous APC and other rice decals on the vehicles is because of companies paying for product placement. It's just a huge marketing strategy that brings in the bucks.

As far as the crappy graphics on the cars, again that's not Craig's fault. Hollywood will be hollywood when it comes to fantasy and it shows. If people copy the crappy styles the see in movies then that's their fault not Craig's. To hate on him because of thye vehicles you see in the movies gives you guys no ground for arguement. Business is business that's all it is. He's getting tons of offers from other movies and television shows and I'm sure if those companies offered you that kind of money to build vehicles to their specs I know you guys wouldn't pass. Again Craig is just misunderstood but once you get to know him you'll see that he means well.

[johnnie]

This thread is stupid... anyone on here would give there car to a movie if they got paid millions to do it... I don't care how custom it is.. money can replace custom. :)

Quit your bitching you would do the same thing.. Props to Craig for doing what you all wish you could do.

Money can replace a lot of things if you let it. No I wouldn't do the same thing and I don't wish that I was craig.

[johnnie]

I know Craig personally and he really is a great guy. He's just often misunderstood. He has been in this scene WAAAAAAAY before the fast and the furious movie. Him and I used to compete head to head in car shows across the nation when his Supra(the one that was in TF&F) was also yellow. People make it seem that he just started getting in to the scene when TF&F started. He's only modding these cars to the way hollywood wants it. He doesn't have bad taste whatsoever when it comes to fixing up vehicles. The reason why you see all these rediculous APC and other rice decals on the vehicles is because of companies paying for product placement. It's just a huge marketing strategy that brings in the bucks.

As far as the crappy graphics on the cars, again that's not Craig's fault. Hollywood will be hollywood when it comes to fantasy and it shows. If people copy the crappy styles the see in movies then that's their fault not Craig's. To hate on him because of thye vehicles you see in the movies gives you guys no ground for arguement. Business is business that's all it is. He's getting tons of offers from other movies and television shows and I'm sure if those companies offered you that kind of money to build vehicles to their specs I know you guys wouldn't pass. Again Craig is just misunderstood but once you get to know him you'll see that he means well.


I myself never had a problem with building vehicles to someone's spec. I however don't respect someone who would ally with a company that produced crap, knowing that it was crap, only to get paid. There would seriously be less crap in the world if less people did this.

[topsecretSUPRA]

I understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately that's not how the movie industry works(i know it sucks). But again, it's all about product placement and money. It's like sponsorship packages.....Some companies can't afford to pay up to get more exposure on the big screen. trust me, Craig wanted to work with a lot of the better parts companies for the movie, but again it's also Hollywood playing a role of who has to pay what and how much. Companies like HKS, Greddy, etc. have a certain budget limit that they spend on advertising. Companies like APC, NOPI, Pepsi, etc. etc. have a little more cash flow to spend if needed so they forked out the money to get more exposure and also up their business.

It would be nice to see the cars in the movies portrayed as the way it should be with the top of the line products but again, it's all about how much a company is willing to spend and how bad they want it. Movies companies can't lower their asking price for product placement due to what we feel is right and better for our scene. Every movie has crappy product placement but it just so happens to be horrible for the import scene in movies. When I watch movies I tend to laught at some of the product placements(someone holding a taco bell bag, sipping a sprite, etc. etc.) because I know they forked out a lot of cash for their 15 seconds of fame on the big screen.

[civic_carboy]

HOW MANY HERE ACTUALLY KNOW HIM? craig rocks...the skylilne IS driven around. it is currently at magnaflow in california. it never amazes me how people can talk shit about someone they dont know and have never met. all you people know are what you read and you should keep in mind not everything you read is right.people on the forum linked are very immature. i hate to see people on this board acting the same. but it is a free country. just dont start crying when someone acts this way towards you and your car/career


Oh great one has spoken. Let us bow down to him, for he knoweth all.

[johnnie]

I understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately that's not how the movie industry works(i know it sucks). But again, it's all about product placement and money. It's like sponsorship packages.....Some companies can't afford to pay up to get more exposure on the big screen. trust me, Craig wanted to work with a lot of the better parts companies for the movie, but again it's also Hollywood playing a role of who has to pay what and how much. Companies like HKS, Greddy, etc. have a certain budget limit that they spend on advertising. Companies like APC, NOPI, Pepsi, etc. etc. have a little more cash flow to spend if needed so they forked out the money to get more exposure and also up their business.

It would be nice to see the cars in the movies portrayed as the way it should be with the top of the line products but again, it's all about how much a company is willing to spend and how bad they want it. Movies companies can't lower their asking price for product placement due to what we feel is right and better for our scene. Every movie has crappy product placement but it just so happens to be horrible for the import scene in movies. When I watch movies I tend to laught at some of the product placements(someone holding a taco bell bag, sipping a sprite, etc. etc.) because I know they forked out a lot of cash for their 15 seconds of fame on the big screen.


Well said and all very true. I guess in the end I'm just really not happy about the way hollywood is putting out such crap and we're for some reason happy enough to go with it. As I said nothing against craig at all. It's just that choices like his have helped to keep this situation going in the same direction :(, that being down. Thanks however for the view of the situation that I had yet to add in or maybe even think about. :)

[johnnie]

Oh great one has spoken. Let us bow down to him, for he knoweth all.



:roflmao:

[topsecretSUPRA]

Well said and all very true. I guess in the end I'm just really not happy about the way hollywood is putting out such crap and we're for some reason happy enough to go with it. As I said nothing against craig at all. It's just that choices like his have helped to keep this situation going in the same direction :(, that being down. Thanks however for the view of the situation that I had yet to add in or maybe even think about. :)

No worries Johnnie. Again I fully understand where you're coming from bro. :)

[Evil Patio]

Wasnt he just an advisor for the movies? Come on people, its not like he wrote the damn scripts.

[johnnie]

Wasnt he just an advisor for the movies? Come on people, its not like he wrote the damn scripts.



True dat he was just an "advisor". I just wish he woulda told rob more about how he was fucking up. Or asked for more control as part of the contract. :(

[craig lieberman]

Saw this on line and had to jump in, as many of your assumptions are way off base;

Myth: I'm a sellout.
Fact: I get paid as an ADVISOR...that's my job. Whether or not my cleints choose to take the advice is another point. You think I don't like Do Luck, CWest or VeilSide components? You think we didn't try to hit up Advan, Racing Sparco, Mugen and others? Did you ever stop to think that these companies were financially unable to support a project this large? You think I didn't STRONGLY suggest we go this way for either movie?

Myth: He doesn't drive his cars.
Fact: 15,000 miles on both the Supra and Skyline in 10 months. 2 speeding tickets in the Skyline, 1 in the Supra. The Supra was yellow, gorgeous, and very clean...before Universal rented it. The graphics, orange color and wing was their idea. I got paid to rent it...you'd have done the same. What did I do with the money I made? I bought a Skyline....I'd bet most would have "wasted" it on a house, or paying off credit cards. And I'm a sellout?

Myth: He got into the scene for the money and because of the movie.
Fact: I've been building cars since 1982. My first: a 240Z with a widebody kit and triple webbers. From 93-96, I had 6 cars in 12 magazine articles. Since 97, I've owned a supercharged Maxima, an IS 300, a Skyline R34, a Diablo, a GS400, a 996TT and an E46 M3 widebody, 1 of 2 in the country. I'm a car guy...to suggest otherwise means you really don't know Jack.

Myth: The movie didn't really portray the scene correctly.
Fact: This was a DRAMA, not a documentary. Did T2 portray cybernetic organisms correctly? Who cares?!

Myth: The cars were not authentic to the scene.
Fact: Having been to and judged more than 300 shows all over the country and in Canada, I have to say this: have you been outside Texas? Lots of Corollas, Neons, Sunfires, Cavaliers and Civics with giant wings, neon windshield washer nozzles and lighted muffler tips. Blame the movie if you want, but that crap has been around since 1997...when I directed and operated the 11 event per year NIRA series. How many of you have been to 300 shows in 22 states since 1997? You need to look around a bit. To my point, ALL of the cars recruited as extras in BOTH movies were taken right off the street...owned by real people...in their natural state. Blame their owners, not the technical ADVISOR!

Myth: The cars stereotyped the scene.
Fact: The cars HAD to be wildly modified...otherwise, mainstream audiences would not know what was special about them. An average viewer will not be to see the difference between a well done JDM Civic and a stock one. That's why the main cars in part 1 were brightly colored and graphic'd...get it now?

Myth: The movie destroyed the scene.
Fact: Because of the movie, mainstream companies are now sponsoring events.

Because of the movie, many TV shows have profiled street racing (and cast many of my friends, colleagues and clients, all of whom made mad money and all of whom knew damn well they were being portrayed as street racers...did you see SmallVille last night?)

Because of the movie, companies like APC, Sparco and NX have grown their business and now offer a wide array of products and better yet, have begun "giving back" to the scene by providing sponsorship to racers, show cars, and events. I suspect even some of you....you think they could do that if business was dropping off?

Because of the movie, Japanese companies recognize the value of the American market and there are now more parts importers and there's even a drifting component coming to our shores.

Because of the movie, Bomex kit sales are up...nitrous sales are up 1500%....Supras are worth $10K more than they were before the movie...racing seat sales are up....and the list goes on and on. ALL OF YOU have benefited from higher resale values of your cars, your parts and more importantly, if you're smart enough to recognize the movie for what it was, you are now an "authority"....meaning you're smarter than the kids coming up behind you!

Because of the movie, I've heard MANY stories of companies SEEKING OUT 24 year old "experts" with NO training other than their street experience JUST to help them reach the market...Keystone, Daimler Chrysler and many, many others.

Because of the movie, there are no fewer than 7 TV shows coming out next year...I'm working on 2 of them...and this means opportunities for many friends, colleagues, and companies.

Because of the movie, Supras are worth $10K more than they were before...

Because of the movie, every knob with an import selling it on Ebay references it as "Fast and Furious" this or that....and I'm the sellout???

Myth: I'm responsible for the ugly cars and graphics.
Fact: Again, all I could do is offer ADVICE....the graphics and colors were picked by the art department. I almost quit over the second movie art work but again, as an ADVISOR, I get paid for my opinions.

Myth: The movie sucked.
Fact: Then why did you see it 5 times? Don't be hypocrites....most of you did or know someone who did see the movie many, many times. The average is 4.

Myth: I don't know how to build a cool car.
Fact: Have you seen the widebody 350Z on the cover of HCI? My build up. Have you seen the candy red Eclipse in the RoJa ads? Built by ME, for JAmes Swe. Have you seen the Do Luck candy red WRX? You will on an upcoming cover of HCI. You'll also see my wideboy M3 on the cover of European Car very soon (check www.moviecarz.com for info). The fact is, I build them one of 2 ways: the way I like it, or the way the CLIENT WANTS IT....i.e The Need for Speed Skyline R34.

You have to also realize that people like Musgni and I, when we build cars to satisfy sponsors, a fee is paid to us, a decal goes on the car and we are then obligated to go out and get exposure for our cars. You may not like the company sponsoring us, but wouldn't be silly to hate Jeff Gordon cause you don't like DuPont? So what if I have an APC sticker on a car....they paid a fee...its' called "sponsorship" and I'm proud to be affiliated with all of my sponsors. You should be so lucky. We could not build our cars without their help...we are eternally grateful to each one of them.

The comments I saw about not taking the car for free are silly, to say the least. I suppose smarter viewers realize that graphics are removable..and the car underneath is a 400hp R34 GTR V-Spec...most of you know what that means.

Children...you better wise up....this may be a hobby to you, but its' a business to the rest of the world...and while you may not agree with this philosophy, any good business is in it to make money. Universal released two movies, both made money...as my client, I served them well. I also served my other clients (the sponsoring companies) well because THEY made money.

I consider myself blessed...people pay me to review their projects and offer advice...they don't always take it, but I get paid either way. This career allows me to fund my car passion. Instead of saving for my kids' college, I continue to blow it on cars, video games and car related crap.

I'm not laughing all the way to the bank....I'm looking at all of the positive effects the movie had. Many of you seem to be seeking to unload ridiculous views without acknowledging some basic facts...Christ...if a psycho climbs a clock tower and shoots 20 people, do you blame his therapist? I'm just the humble ADVISOR in most of these projects.

But its' nice to know at least you have a view...and refuse to accept what's forced down your throat by Hollywood. For that, I commend you and invite you to share your views with the clients, not the ADVISORS.

Peace.

[civic_carboy]

i got 9 tickets in a crx, so bleh.

[mofoD]

Myth: The movie didn't really portray the scene correctly.
Fact: This was a DRAMA, not a documentary. Did T2 portray cybernetic organisms correctly? Who cares?!


hahahahahahaha!!!!!! ROFL!!!! mann good game to craig for makin a funny

[topsecretSUPRA]

You have to also realize that people like Musgni and I, when we build cars to satisfy sponsors, a fee is paid to us, a decal goes on the car and we are then obligated to go out and get exposure for our cars.

Well put Craig! Oh and thanks for the shout out! :thumb:

[johnnie]

Saw this on line and had to jump in, as many of your assumptions are way off base;

Myth: I'm a sellout.
Fact: I get paid as an ADVISOR...that's my job. Whether or not my cleints choose to take the advice is another point. You think I don't like Do Luck, CWest or VeilSide components? You think we didn't try to hit up Advan, Racing Sparco, Mugen and others? Did you ever stop to think that these companies were financially unable to support a project this large? You think I didn't STRONGLY suggest we go this way for either movie?

Myth: He doesn't drive his cars.
Fact: 15,000 miles on both the Supra and Skyline in 10 months. 2 speeding tickets in the Skyline, 1 in the Supra. The Supra was yellow, gorgeous, and very clean...before Universal rented it. The graphics, orange color and wing was their idea. I got paid to rent it...you'd have done the same. What did I do with the money I made? I bought a Skyline....I'd bet most would have "wasted" it on a house, or paying off credit cards. And I'm a sellout?

Myth: He got into the scene for the money and because of the movie.
Fact: I've been building cars since 1982. My first: a 240Z with a widebody kit and triple webbers. From 93-96, I had 6 cars in 12 magazine articles. Since 97, I've owned a supercharged Maxima, an IS 300, a Skyline R34, a Diablo, a GS400, a 996TT and an E46 M3 widebody, 1 of 2 in the country. I'm a car guy...to suggest otherwise means you really don't know Jack.

Myth: The movie didn't really portray the scene correctly.
Fact: This was a DRAMA, not a documentary. Did T2 portray cybernetic organisms correctly? Who cares?!

Myth: The cars were not authentic to the scene.
Fact: Having been to and judged more than 300 shows all over the country and in Canada, I have to say this: have you been outside Texas? Lots of Corollas, Neons, Sunfires, Cavaliers and Civics with giant wings, neon windshield washer nozzles and lighted muffler tips. Blame the movie if you want, but that crap has been around since 1997...when I directed and operated the 11 event per year NIRA series. How many of you have been to 300 shows in 22 states since 1997? You need to look around a bit. To my point, ALL of the cars recruited as extras in BOTH movies were taken right off the street...owned by real people...in their natural state. Blame their owners, not the technical ADVISOR!

Myth: The cars stereotyped the scene.
Fact: The cars HAD to be wildly modified...otherwise, mainstream audiences would not know what was special about them. An average viewer will not be to see the difference between a well done JDM Civic and a stock one. That's why the main cars in part 1 were brightly colored and graphic'd...get it now?

Myth: The movie destroyed the scene.
Fact: Because of the movie, mainstream companies are now sponsoring events.

Because of the movie, many TV shows have profiled street racing (and cast many of my friends, colleagues and clients, all of whom made mad money and all of whom knew damn well they were being portrayed as street racers...did you see SmallVille last night?)

Because of the movie, companies like APC, Sparco and NX have grown their business and now offer a wide array of products and better yet, have begun "giving back" to the scene by providing sponsorship to racers, show cars, and events. I suspect even some of you....you think they could do that if business was dropping off?

Because of the movie, Japanese companies recognize the value of the American market and there are now more parts importers and there's even a drifting component coming to our shores.

Because of the movie, Bomex kit sales are up...nitrous sales are up 1500%....Supras are worth $10K more than they were before the movie...racing seat sales are up....and the list goes on and on. ALL OF YOU have benefited from higher resale values of your cars, your parts and more importantly, if you're smart enough to recognize the movie for what it was, you are now an "authority"....meaning you're smarter than the kids coming up behind you!

Because of the movie, I've heard MANY stories of companies SEEKING OUT 24 year old "experts" with NO training other than their street experience JUST to help them reach the market...Keystone, Daimler Chrysler and many, many others.

Because of the movie, there are no fewer than 7 TV shows coming out next year...I'm working on 2 of them...and this means opportunities for many friends, colleagues, and companies.

Because of the movie, Supras are worth $10K more than they were before...

Because of the movie, every knob with an import selling it on Ebay references it as "Fast and Furious" this or that....and I'm the sellout???

Myth: I'm responsible for the ugly cars and graphics.
Fact: Again, all I could do is offer ADVICE....the graphics and colors were picked by the art department. I almost quit over the second movie art work but again, as an ADVISOR, I get paid for my opinions.

Myth: The movie sucked.
Fact: Then why did you see it 5 times? Don't be hypocrites....most of you did or know someone who did see the movie many, many times. The average is 4.

Myth: I don't know how to build a cool car.
Fact: Have you seen the widebody 350Z on the cover of HCI? My build up. Have you seen the candy red Eclipse in the RoJa ads? Built by ME, for JAmes Swe. Have you seen the Do Luck candy red WRX? You will on an upcoming cover of HCI. You'll also see my wideboy M3 on the cover of European Car very soon (check www.moviecarz.com for info). The fact is, I build them one of 2 ways: the way I like it, or the way the CLIENT WANTS IT....i.e The Need for Speed Skyline R34.

You have to also realize that people like Musgni and I, when we build cars to satisfy sponsors, a fee is paid to us, a decal goes on the car and we are then obligated to go out and get exposure for our cars. You may not like the company sponsoring us, but wouldn't be silly to hate Jeff Gordon cause you don't like DuPont? So what if I have an APC sticker on a car....they paid a fee...its' called "sponsorship" and I'm proud to be affiliated with all of my sponsors. You should be so lucky. We could not build our cars without their help...we are eternally grateful to each one of them.

The comments I saw about not taking the car for free are silly, to say the least. I suppose smarter viewers realize that graphics are removable..and the car underneath is a 400hp R34 GTR V-Spec...most of you know what that means.

Children...you better wise up....this may be a hobby to you, but its' a business to the rest of the world...and while you may not agree with this philosophy, any good business is in it to make money. Universal released two movies, both made money...as my client, I served them well. I also served my other clients (the sponsoring companies) well because THEY made money.

I consider myself blessed...people pay me to review their projects and offer advice...they don't always take it, but I get paid either way. This career allows me to fund my car passion. Instead of saving for my kids' college, I continue to blow it on cars, video games and car related crap.

I'm not laughing all the way to the bank....I'm looking at all of the positive effects the movie had. Many of you seem to be seeking to unload ridiculous views without acknowledging some basic facts...Christ...if a psycho climbs a clock tower and shoots 20 people, do you blame his therapist? I'm just the humble ADVISOR in most of these projects.

But its' nice to know at least you have a view...and refuse to accept what's forced down your throat by Hollywood. For that, I commend you and invite you to share your views with the clients, not the ADVISORS.

Peace.

I'll be the first to say thanks for going into such detail on each myth and I hope a lot of people read this to get a better understanding of you and why you did what you did. As said throughout the post I don't have anything against you. I just wish hollywood would do it's job better and that less people would go along with it for the money. I agree that you've helped expand the scene a lot. Wether that's good or bad I is for everyone to decide on thier own. Still thanks again for taking the time to say all that you have.

[mofoD]

i think alot of people will STFU now due to craigs very detailed explanation

[SolaraGuy]

the guy is a loser...he lies, when he recruited cars for f&f, he had a meet in cali to pick the best cars, he picked none for the movie, rather he stole their ideas and used them for his own...loser who does not deserve to own any cars

[SprayedAccord]

What about his website that you had to pay to put your car up there? Did anyone get picked from there? I only remember craig coming around here when there was something he wanted such as promoting his shows or his website.

[craig lieberman]

As for the first casting call in Santa Monica, we did in fact pick several cars...none of the owners were willing to let us ship there car to Florida for 6 months unsupervised, so that didn't work. And I don't blame them. FYI: the SECOND casting call in Miami on Sept 14 drew 496 cars...281 of which were cast...cast through who? MovieCarZ.com.

One car we loved (a widebody Supra) from Santa Monica's casting call was deemed too expensive to replicate...damn shame....yet another example of a cool car, sponsored by GOOD companies who could not afford to give us 6 of everything to build 6 exact copies. What did we do? Built TRD widebody Supras INSPIRED by this fellow's Supra. That's not "ripping off ideas" any more than buying an HKS exhaust just because 100 other Supras have one.

As for my website, MovieCarZ, you sir, are talkingout your a$$. FYI: If you'd bother to read the site's front page, you'd see that we've had literally HUNDREDS of cars cast.

Did you see the Ludacris Act the Fool video? 90% cast from MovieCarZ clients...Les Wongs' RX7, Ritchie Bautista's green Eclipse, the list goes on and on in this video but they ALL came from my site.

Did you see that Mitsubishi commerical with the red EVo sliding sideways and the quick drag racing shots? 100% cast from MovieCarZ.

Anybody see the street racing episodes of "The Division", "Providence" or "CSI" last season? All cast from MovieCarZ.

See the black BMW in "Cheaper by The Dozen," the new Steve Martin movie? Cast through MovieCarZ.

See the special "Turbo CHarged Prelude" segment on the 2 Fast 2 Furious DVD and The Fast and the Furious Tricked Out DVD? 100% cast from our roster of members.

The list goes on and on.

Guys/gals...if you want to offer opinions and slams, at least get the facts and quit talking out your a$$e$. I'm more than annoyed by trolls who want to cast aspersions in the anonymity of chat rooms...at least I have the guts to post under my real name in EVERY board I surf.

Hey, I've said it before, I'll say it again...at least meet me before you say you hate me ! ;-)

Remarkable...so many views on my clients' projects and only a handful of people smart enough to realize that clients drive the projects.

Again, check out MY personal creations in the above referenced post...the WRX...the 350Z....the M3....I'll match those against any show car anywhere and stand proudly behind them.

[AmginE]

Saw this on line and had to jump in, as many of your assumptions are way off base;

Myth: I'm a sellout.
Fact: I get paid as an ADVISOR...that's my job. Whether or not my cleints choose to take the advice is another point. You think I don't like Do Luck, CWest or VeilSide components? You think we didn't try to hit up Advan, Racing Sparco, Mugen and others? Did you ever stop to think that these companies were financially unable to support a project this large? You think I didn't STRONGLY suggest we go this way for either movie?

Myth: He doesn't drive his cars.
Fact: 15,000 miles on both the Supra and Skyline in 10 months. 2 speeding tickets in the Skyline, 1 in the Supra. The Supra was yellow, gorgeous, and very clean...before Universal rented it. The graphics, orange color and wing was their idea. I got paid to rent it...you'd have done the same. What did I do with the money I made? I bought a Skyline....I'd bet most would have "wasted" it on a house, or paying off credit cards. And I'm a sellout?

Myth: He got into the scene for the money and because of the movie.
Fact: I've been building cars since 1982. My first: a 240Z with a widebody kit and triple webbers. From 93-96, I had 6 cars in 12 magazine articles. Since 97, I've owned a supercharged Maxima, an IS 300, a Skyline R34, a Diablo, a GS400, a 996TT and an E46 M3 widebody, 1 of 2 in the country. I'm a car guy...to suggest otherwise means you really don't know Jack.

Myth: The movie didn't really portray the scene correctly.
Fact: This was a DRAMA, not a documentary. Did T2 portray cybernetic organisms correctly? Who cares?!

Myth: The cars were not authentic to the scene.
Fact: Having been to and judged more than 300 shows all over the country and in Canada, I have to say this: have you been outside Texas? Lots of Corollas, Neons, Sunfires, Cavaliers and Civics with giant wings, neon windshield washer nozzles and lighted muffler tips. Blame the movie if you want, but that crap has been around since 1997...when I directed and operated the 11 event per year NIRA series. How many of you have been to 300 shows in 22 states since 1997? You need to look around a bit. To my point, ALL of the cars recruited as extras in BOTH movies were taken right off the street...owned by real people...in their natural state. Blame their owners, not the technical ADVISOR!

Myth: The cars stereotyped the scene.
Fact: The cars HAD to be wildly modified...otherwise, mainstream audiences would not know what was special about them. An average viewer will not be to see the difference between a well done JDM Civic and a stock one. That's why the main cars in part 1 were brightly colored and graphic'd...get it now?

Myth: The movie destroyed the scene.
Fact: Because of the movie, mainstream companies are now sponsoring events.

Because of the movie, many TV shows have profiled street racing (and cast many of my friends, colleagues and clients, all of whom made mad money and all of whom knew damn well they were being portrayed as street racers...did you see SmallVille last night?)

Because of the movie, companies like APC, Sparco and NX have grown their business and now offer a wide array of products and better yet, have begun "giving back" to the scene by providing sponsorship to racers, show cars, and events. I suspect even some of you....you think they could do that if business was dropping off?

Because of the movie, Japanese companies recognize the value of the American market and there are now more parts importers and there's even a drifting component coming to our shores.

Because of the movie, Bomex kit sales are up...nitrous sales are up 1500%....Supras are worth $10K more than they were before the movie...racing seat sales are up....and the list goes on and on. ALL OF YOU have benefited from higher resale values of your cars, your parts and more importantly, if you're smart enough to recognize the movie for what it was, you are now an "authority"....meaning you're smarter than the kids coming up behind you!

Because of the movie, I've heard MANY stories of companies SEEKING OUT 24 year old "experts" with NO training other than their street experience JUST to help them reach the market...Keystone, Daimler Chrysler and many, many others.

Because of the movie, there are no fewer than 7 TV shows coming out next year...I'm working on 2 of them...and this means opportunities for many friends, colleagues, and companies.

Because of the movie, Supras are worth $10K more than they were before...

Because of the movie, every knob with an import selling it on Ebay references it as "Fast and Furious" this or that....and I'm the sellout???

Myth: I'm responsible for the ugly cars and graphics.
Fact: Again, all I could do is offer ADVICE....the graphics and colors were picked by the art department. I almost quit over the second movie art work but again, as an ADVISOR, I get paid for my opinions.

Myth: The movie sucked.
Fact: Then why did you see it 5 times? Don't be hypocrites....most of you did or know someone who did see the movie many, many times. The average is 4.

Myth: I don't know how to build a cool car.
Fact: Have you seen the widebody 350Z on the cover of HCI? My build up. Have you seen the candy red Eclipse in the RoJa ads? Built by ME, for JAmes Swe. Have you seen the Do Luck candy red WRX? You will on an upcoming cover of HCI. You'll also see my wideboy M3 on the cover of European Car very soon (check www.moviecarz.com for info). The fact is, I build them one of 2 ways: the way I like it, or the way the CLIENT WANTS IT....i.e The Need for Speed Skyline R34.

You have to also realize that people like Musgni and I, when we build cars to satisfy sponsors, a fee is paid to us, a decal goes on the car and we are then obligated to go out and get exposure for our cars. You may not like the company sponsoring us, but wouldn't be silly to hate Jeff Gordon cause you don't like DuPont? So what if I have an APC sticker on a car....they paid a fee...its' called "sponsorship" and I'm proud to be affiliated with all of my sponsors. You should be so lucky. We could not build our cars without their help...we are eternally grateful to each one of them.

The comments I saw about not taking the car for free are silly, to say the least. I suppose smarter viewers realize that graphics are removable..and the car underneath is a 400hp R34 GTR V-Spec...most of you know what that means.

Children...you better wise up....this may be a hobby to you, but its' a business to the rest of the world...and while you may not agree with this philosophy, any good business is in it to make money. Universal released two movies, both made money...as my client, I served them well. I also served my other clients (the sponsoring companies) well because THEY made money.

I consider myself blessed...people pay me to review their projects and offer advice...they don't always take it, but I get paid either way. This career allows me to fund my car passion. Instead of saving for my kids' college, I continue to blow it on cars, video games and car related crap.

I'm not laughing all the way to the bank....I'm looking at all of the positive effects the movie had. Many of you seem to be seeking to unload ridiculous views without acknowledging some basic facts...Christ...if a psycho climbs a clock tower and shoots 20 people, do you blame his therapist? I'm just the humble ADVISOR in most of these projects.

But its' nice to know at least you have a view...and refuse to accept what's forced down your throat by Hollywood. For that, I commend you and invite you to share your views with the clients, not the ADVISORS.

Peace.

well said. My origninal argument was in your defense, just that i was up too late to have coherent sentences.

One misconception that permeates your whole post is that you're assuming ALL of us are the hypocrites who don't know that vinyl's are paid to be put on a car, you don't drive around town with stickers and wings, and that we've ALL seen F&F 5 times. (i saw the first one once, haven't seen the second.)

What scares me over all this, is that you found this thread, out of nowhere.

Either way, i'm envious of the position you're in, good luck with whatever else you do.

[turboteg]

sup Mr. Craig Lieberman

[Mobil1]

doesnt craig lieberman own one of the Black Bird GT-Rs from MotoRex? if so he sucks. :p

[SprayedAccord]

I don't hate you. And i was just asking a question about your website. I didn't say,"Look his website is a sham...blah blah blah" I just wanted to see how many cars were picked from the site. Is that so bad? So i guess now we will see on this site the next time you're going to need something. Laters.

[SolaraGuy]

As for the first casting call in Santa Monica, we did in fact pick several cars...none of the owners were willing to let us ship there car to Florida for 6 months unsupervised, so that didn't work. And I don't blame them. FYI: the SECOND casting call in Miami on Sept 14 drew 496 cars...281 of which were cast...cast through who? MovieCarZ.com.

this i did not know, mainly voicing what i heard from a team up there.

[topsecretSUPRA]

Again, Craig is a great guy once you get to know him. He's OFTEN misunderstood and judged the wrong way from people. I've known Craig since late 1997/early 1998 and he is a very down to earth person that has a HUGE passion for automobiles just as much as we do. Him and his wife Jennifer are great people to know.

[AmginE]

Again, Craig is a great guy once you get to know him. He's OFTEN misunderstood and judged the wrong way from people. I've known Craig since late 1997/early 1998 and he is a very down to earth person that has a HUGE passion for automobiles just as much as we do. Him and his wife Jennifer are great people to know.

stop bragging :p ;)

[Evil Patio]

Calm down Craig. I think you need a hug.

[craig lieberman]

this i did not know, mainly voicing what i heard from a team up there.

Gotta call a party foul on this one...you're basing your views on what you've heard!?!?

Isn't this a bit like me saying "Well, I've HEARD Solaras are slow, handle poorly and are preferred by the gay community in Laguna Beach, Calif...especially the convertible" (coming out soon). Harsh, right?

Judging a person or thing without having first hand experience makes those casting such aspersions look, well, dumb...which was the ENTIRE reason for me posting here in the first place.

Like Musgni said, people talk a lot of trash....if I truly were a tasteless, callous, in-it-for the money kinda guy, would I be surfing chat rooms?

I happily surf literally dozens of sites all over the world and use to frequent this board to help promote the NIRA and NDRA series. I use to set up special deals for the Houston-Imports.com folks and they (thankfully) supported me (and NIRA/NDRA) in return.

See...I'm one of you...just old(er), willing to spend more money...and been around the block a few more times.

One more time: email your hate mail, opinions and QUESTIONS to me at liebermc1@cox.net

We cool now?

[Evil Patio]

See you at the next event.

[Leon]

I think its kool how he came on here himself to clear things up unstead of talking trash and makeing an attempt to retaliate(sp).....much respect

[OH NOEZ]

Congratulations Craig, you just made yourself look like a tool.

You've successfully contributed to the steady decline of the 'sport-compact' scene.

Even the idea of a car show is kind of absurd. The best part is when people get all pissed off when they don't win, or somebody else places higher. The judging is based solely off of the opinion of somebody else. And people say they don't care what others think. :rolleyes:

Oh, and BTW Craig, your Supra and your Skyline both got riced the fuck out. That is why you're a sellout. You're the reason people think that double-decker APC wings, 5" Monster Tach's, Body Kits made out of wood and plastic gutters, and fart-cannons are cool.

No wonder I want to get rid of my car so badly.

[OH NOEZ]

By the way, T1, T2, and T3 were good movies.

Fast and Furious, and Fast and Furious II both sucked.

Maybe you should do something good for the 'street-racing' community and make a documentary.

Racing on the street is definately not 'street-racing'.

[SolaraGuy]

Gotta call a party foul on this one...you're basing your views on what you've heard!?!?

party foul? this doesnt look like a party?

Isn't this a bit like me saying "Well, I've HEARD Solaras are slow, handle poorly and are preferred by the gay community in Laguna Beach, Calif...especially the convertible" (coming out soon). Harsh, right?

well becuase you have never been graced to drive one seeing as you have such l33t vehicles (im sorry everyone isnt as fortunate), solaras are slow, their handling does suck, and im sure a lot of gay guys do drive them. :rolleyes:

Judging a person or thing without having first hand experience makes those casting such aspersions look, well, dumb...which was the ENTIRE reason for me posting here in the first place.

How hypocritical though, yet you blatently call me dumb...I dont think we have met. hi my name is craig too.

Like Musgni said, people talk a lot of trash....if I truly were a tasteless, callous, in-it-for the money kinda guy, would I be surfing chat rooms?

why not? i would

I happily surf literally dozens of sites all over the world and use to frequent this board to help promote the NIRA and NDRA series. I use to set up special deals for the Houston-Imports.com folks and they (thankfully) supported me (and NIRA/NDRA) in return.

See...I'm one of you...just old(er), willing to spend more money...and been around the block a few more times.

interesting

One more time: email your hate mail, opinions and QUESTIONS to me at liebermc1@cox.net

We cool now?

yes we are, have a nice day


:D

[mofoD]

ben is a tool, a monkey wrench to be exact. :thumb:

[craig lieberman]

:D
Thak you for your thoughtful, and insightful reply....your responses made no sense...anywhere...they were mindless drivel and we're all a little dumber having read them. Thank you for that totally meaningless, futile attempt to further your position among your peers on this chat room.

Psycho ramblings do nothing to further your position....but they bolster my analysis that while most are interested in hearing the truth, a few have their minds made up. Congratulations: you share many socio-pathic traits displayed usually only displayed by other meaningful contributors to society, i.e.: criminals and racists.

As for the cries of rice, I gotta disagree there, too. $5000 in Ohlins coil overs, $4000 in C West body kit, a $2000 C West full carbon wing, engine goodies from Apex, VeilSide and a $700 Nismo titanium strut tower bar hardly constitute "rice" in my book. Are you referring the graphics? Inspired by the Signal Auto Skyline FROM JAPAN? Or the PAID decal placement from certain companies? You did read my post about building cars to get exposure for my sponsors, right? You do understand that the car made the cover of about 7 magazines and was featured in about 12 others? You do understand that this is my job, right?

That aside, do you think people who build their own personal cars are building them to impress you? Certainly nothing can impress you, short of a stock Solara, right? There are specific purposes to my projects...in case you missed that point.

Here's a thought: go buy a Skyline for yourself and "show me" how its done.

You have critiques, fine...how about "Hey dude...I didn't care for XYZ on your car...why did you go that way instead of ABC components?" Oh, cause that would be reasonable, polite, and not funny to your compadres on this chat room board, right?

And to disspell yet ANOTHER of your assumptions: I have indeed driven MANY Solaras, including TRD's and another supercharged one, formerly belonging to Super Street. Fast cars...I know...I pass them all the time ;-)

[OH NOEZ]

Psycho ramblings do nothing to further your position....but they bolster my analysis that while most are interested in hearing the truth, a few have their minds made up. Congratulations: you share many socio-pathic traits displayed usually only displayed by other meaningful contributors to society, i.e.: criminals and racists.

Probably the worst analogy ever. Like-wise, you share many traits displayed by ricers in the purest form. :)

As for the cries of rice, I gotta disagree there, too. $5000 in Ohlins coil overs, $4000 in C West body kit, a $2000 C West full carbon wing, engine goodies from Apex, VeilSide and a $700 Nismo titanium strut tower bar hardly constitute "rice" in my book. Are you referring the graphics? Inspired by the Signal Auto Skyline FROM JAPAN? Or the PAID decal placement from certain companies? You did read my post about building cars to get exposure for my sponsors, right? You do understand that the car made the cover of about 7 magazines and was featured in about 12 others? You do understand that this is my job, right?

So wait, you paid to turn a nice car into rice, or you just stood by and watched it happen? I'm confused here.

That aside, do you think people who build their own personal cars are building them to impress you? Certainly nothing can impress you, short of a stock Solara, right? There are specific purposes to my projects...in case you missed that point.

Stock Solara > Rice. I'm sorry Craig, but it's true. :(

Here's a thought: go buy a Skyline for yourself and "show me" how its done.

Why would I go buy a Skyline? They're over priced, don't look cool, and they really aren't that fast.

You have critiques, fine...how about "Hey dude...I didn't care for XYZ on your car...why did you go that way instead of ABC components?" Oh, cause that would be reasonable, polite, and not funny to your compadres on this chat room board, right?

Check out the Car Pics forum. Members of this 'chat room board' do exactly as you suggested on a daily basis. The only difference with you being that there are so many 'rice-rific' modifications to your car, it's obvious that saving your car is only a waste of time.

And to disspell yet ANOTHER of your assumptions: I have indeed driven MANY Solaras, including TRD's and another supercharged one, formerly belonging to Super Street. Fast cars...I know...I pass them all the time ;-)

Just out of curiousity, what does your Skyline run? What does/did your Supra run?

[craig lieberman]

OMG...I can see I'm wading in a highly chlorinated Gene pool here....as soon as you said "Skylines over priced, don't look cool, and they really aren't that fast," you lost me. You, sir, are in the .0001% minority (thankfully) and I'd LOVE to see what you're driving.

Next, you'll try to impress me with your dad's car, or your neighbor's car, or you'll tell me that you'd rather have a stock Solara than a Skyline, even either one my Skylines, or that my 12 second street cars aren't "fast enough" for you....like I care.

Let me end your confusion. I didn't PAY to turn my car into rice...I was PAID to perform a service...get that car exposure. You call it rice, 20 some magazines called it "stunning." They must all be wrong, as were the 14 million people who paid to see it on the silver screen. My work on that car afforded me the opportunity to be paid to work on another....and another...and another. This is called "a job." You should try it (servicing your clients to a point that they want to pay you to do it again and again)

Just out of curiosity, wow many sponsors do you have again? Get a few...listen to their concerns...then walk a mile in my shoes.

Your last statement made no sense to anybody but you....so I'll ignore it.

My Skyline's ET as tested by Road and Track in Spring of 2000: 12.2 at LACR

The Supra's best time was a 13.10 at 121 mph...one pass, street tires, full stereo, lowered suspension, smoking through 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

My 996TT just ran a 12.3 last weekend...with the AC on....my M3 ran 13.2 stock. These ET's are relevant why?

Hey...I can go tit for tat with trash talking people all day...until you make sense...or show a modicum of respect.

[mofoD]

you wont get any respect on this forum man. sad but true

[Vic]

are you still with NDRA Craig?

[civic_carboy]

cockyness earns you respect, duh.

[Mobil1]

i think people became upset after the FF was released because of the explosion of ghetto ricey cars all over the nation. people with bone stock civics cut their springs and ran to the nearest autozone to grab an exhaust tip and the last pair of apc euro tails. all these ghetto cars made the rest of the "import scene" (which i do not consider my self a part of) look bad.

i think they associate you, craig, with all of this because you are one of the faces of the import industry here in the states and to some i guess you "sold out" or "got ricey" BUT i understand you were just doing your job, a customer told you what they wanted and you gave it to them. money in the bank.

[OH NOEZ]

OMG...I can see I'm wading in a highly chlorinated Gene pool here....as soon as you said "Skylines over priced, don't look cool, and they really aren't that fast," you lost me. You, sir, are in the .0001% minority (thankfully) and I'd LOVE to see what you're driving.

Right now I'm driving my 1998 Acura Integra LS. I bought it about 2 years ago now when was 17. It looks like any Integra should, stock. Mods were simple, yet effective, yielding a best ET of 13.5 and a best MPH of 105 MPH. After I ran those ET's and MPH's, I added a pair of nitrous cams, which probably would have netted a 13.2 @ 108 MPH. Unfortunately, I was never able to go to the track with those nitrous cams in. Since then, I have returned the car to stock and it is currently for sale. I'm speaking with the owner of a 1998 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 1le right now. With any luck, I will be the new owner of this car.

Next, you'll try to impress me with your dad's car, or your neighbor's car, or you'll tell me that you'd rather have a stock Solara than a Skyline, even either one my Skylines, or that my 12 second street cars aren't "fast enough" for you....like I care.

My dad drives a 1997 Pontiac Grand-Am. My mother drives a 1999 Chevrolet Suburban. My brother drives a 1997 Toyota Camry. Impressed? :rolleyes:

Oh wait, I forgot about my neighbors.

The neighbor to my right drives a 2003 Chevrolet Suburban. His wife drives a 2002 GMC Yukon. The weekend driver is a 2001 Chevrolet Corvette Convertable.

The neighbor to my left drives a 2000 Ford Ranger. His wife drives a 2000 Pontiac Bonneville.

12 second street car? Is that impressive? Oh wait, I forgot that a stock LS1 with a decent driver will go 12's. Or that stock Z06's are going 12.0's bone stock. Oh wait, stock 03/04 Cobra's are going 12.10's one stock.

I'm impressed by 9 and 10 second street-cars, not cars with thousands of dollars worth of modifications that are only running 12's and look like they were the result of a 9 year-old going crazy with his erector set.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Stock Solara > Rice. Your Skyline and Supra = Rice. Therefore, stock solara > Your Skyline and Supra. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind driving a Skyline or a Supra. I would not, however, want to drive your version of the car.

Let me end your confusion. I didn't PAY to turn my car into rice...I was PAID to perform a service...get that car exposure. You call it rice, 20 some magazines called it "stunning." They must all be wrong, as were the 14 million people who paid to see it on the silver screen. My work on that car afforded me the opportunity to be paid to work on another....and another...and another. This is called "a job." You should try it (servicing your clients to a point that they want to pay you to do it again and again)

So you were paid to turn your car to rice? That's an interesting proposition. When somebody says the word Skyline, you know which one comes to mind, the Exvitermini.com car. A car that looks good and hauls ass.

You want to know why 20 some magazines call it 'stunning?' It's because rice sells. Why do you think companies like APC have done so well? They jumped on the opportunity to make money. Hardly a day goes by when I don't see 3 to 5 cars with APC wings on them. Half of 'Super Street' magazine is an add for rice products anyways. As far as I'm concerned, the only decent 'Sport Compact' magazine in the market is SCC, and even I haven't picked up an issue in months.

As for that 'job' thing, I appreciate your concern and advice, but I think I'll be just fine.


Just out of curiosity, wow many sponsors do you have again? Get a few...listen to their concerns...then walk a mile in my shoes.

As far as official sponsors go, I have none. As far as 'unofficial' sponsors go, you could say I have 1, maybe 2. They're at G-Force Motorsports and Speedaholics. Both provide me with discounted parts and labor prices. I voluntarily support those shops because I believe they do excellent work at excellent prices.

Your last statement made no sense to anybody but you....so I'll ignore it.

I didn't expect you to understand, because like I said, your car is too far gone.

My Skyline's ET as tested by Road and Track in Spring of 2000: 12.2 at LACR

The Supra's best time was a 13.10 at 121 mph...one pass, street tires, full stereo, lowered suspension, smoking through 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

My 996TT just ran a 12.3 last weekend...with the AC on....my M3 ran 13.2 stock. These ET's are relevant why?

The ET's were for my entertainment purposes only. They hold almost no relevence. Do you feel at all dissappointed by the times?

Hey...I can go tit for tat with trash talking people all day...until you make sense...or show a modicum of respect.

I'm just wondering how long you'll stick around before you realize that you shouldn't be down here with us bottom-dwellers.

[veritas]

Hey Ben, I bet he has $100,000 to spare if you give him head.

[OH NOEZ]

Hey Ben, I bet he has $100,000 to spare if you give him head.

I'll do that.

Do I know you?

[axio]

Leiberman bitch slapped you all :rofl:

Style is subjective, money isn't.

[SolaraGuy]

Psycho ramblings do nothing to further your position....but they bolster my analysis that while most are interested in hearing the truth, a few have their minds made up. Congratulations: you share many socio-pathic traits displayed usually only displayed by other meaningful contributors to society, i.e.: criminals and racists.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm k so now you are comparing me to a criminal and racist :roflmao: I go to u of h sir, its quite hard to be racist here. and what part of this quarrel did I ever diss any of your cars ;), as far as I see it you are the one dissing mine...and im sorry to dissapoint you its not stock. :nono:

[craig lieberman]

I can see where this is going...I'm arguing with a 19 yr old that's built how many cars? Been in how many magazines? You've raced in how many races? You hold how many racing licenses? Had how many jobs? Made how many house payments? Served how many companies?

Isn't this a bit like a holistic healer going to a convention of surgeons? Son, the price of admission in this forum is the fulfillment of certain minimums. If you want to be taken seriously in the big leagues, come back when the answer to all of the above questions is: at least three.

Must be nice to be 19 and know everything.

You can twist the definition of rice to suit your purposes son, but the reality is, I've paid my dues and frankly, am tired of arguing with a kid who thinks being on a chat room more often than a rival makes you an authority on anything, let alone the principles and dynamics of internal combustion engines, suspension physics or the preferred plot points for major motion pictures. Hell, you should run your own speed shop...run your own race team....open your own studio.

Tell you what junior, you're entitled to your opinions and even though you've not responded with any valid counterpoints other than your opinions, I'll pass on some free wisdom to you:

Until you've walked a mile in someone's shoes or at least lived away from the security blanket of mommy's house for a few years, may I suggest you consider that old adage about opinions?

You're driving a 6 year old stock Integra and you have the nerve to diss $100,000 cars? Comedy...pure comedy. Sure...you wouldn't prefer a Skyline or a 996TT...please....and your friends' Camaro is fast... I care??? You said it best: I'm dealing with a bottom dweller. (this is NOT the opinion I share about all HI members).

So, out of most of the replies, Mobil1Skyline was one of the few with anything intelligent to say? Candid views posted with respect and explanation....my compliments to him, sir and while I appreciate the many, many private emails I've been getting from other board members, its' disappointing to see few have the nerve to come on here and tell Oh Noez to basically, shut the hell up.

You do your thing, I do mine...it makes me happy....I shared with you the facts, you keep bombarding me with your opinions. Again, I'm not as interested in them as you may think I am.

[the Asshats]

I can see where this is going...I'm arguing with a 19 yr old that's built how many cars? Been in how many magazines? You've raced in how many races? You hold how many racing licenses? Had how many jobs? Made how many house payments? Served how many companies?

Isn't this a bit like a holistic healer going to a convention of surgeons? Son, the price of admission in this forum is the fulfillment of certain minimums. If you want to be taken seriously in the big leagues, come back when the answer to all of the above questions is: at least three.

Must be nice to be 19 and know everything.

You can twist the definition of rice to suit your purposes son, but the reality is, I've paid my dues and frankly, am tired of arguing with a kid who thinks being on a chat room more often than a rival makes you an authority on anything, let alone the principles and dynamics of internal combustion engines, suspension physics or the preferred plot points for major motion pictures. Hell, you should run your own speed shop...run your own race team....open your own studio.

Tell you what junior, you're entitled to your opinions and even though you've not responded with any valid counterpoints other than your opinions, I'll pass on some free wisdom to you:

Until you've walked a mile in someone's shoes or at least lived away from the security blanket of mommy's house for a few years, may I suggest you consider that old adage about opinions?

You're driving a 6 year old stock Integra and you have the nerve to diss $100,000 cars? Comedy...pure comedy. Sure...you wouldn't prefer a Skyline or a 996TT...please....and your friends' Camaro is fast... I care??? You said it best: I'm dealing with a bottom dweller. (this is NOT the opinion I share about all HI members).

So, out of most of the replies, Mobil1Skyline was one of the few with anything intelligent to say? Candid views posted with respect and explanation....my compliments to him, sir and while I appreciate the many, many private emails I've been getting from other board members, its' disappointing to see few have the nerve to come on here and tell Oh Noez to basically, shut the hell up.

You do your thing, I do mine...it makes me happy....I shared with you the facts, you keep bombarding me with your opinions. Again, I'm not as interested in them as you may think I am.

Keep on keepin' on.. Getting paid to turn cars to what you made them to do.. to get cars exposure... making big bucks doing that.. if that is what they call a sell out.. I'll be a sell out anyday of the week. :)

[Benny]

ben.. if i was you.. i would give up. none of your posts make any damn sense.. and your just making yourself look like an ass. period.

[2.2crx]

i think the cars and the f&f movies themselves have something to do with the overabundance of ricers in the US. the movie showed a lot of people a new scene that they could join with what they already had I.E a car. then, untastefully, add a muffler and LED windshield squirters. Movies do this kind of thing, some import car enthusiasts hate the exposure that F&F brought, as im sure, did Biker Boyz and Torque to actual bikers.

In my opinion, i think the cars were riced out. yes, HREs and Ohlins are nice, but the induvidual components make up a whole, and i did not like the whole thing. yes, i would love a skyline or a supra. Also, i have not been in your (craigs) shoes so i do not understand the whole sponsorship thing (i understand the "im sponsored by my friend shop" thing). I am only 20 so a job at Dominos working 30-50 hrs a wk during high school has only alowed me to build a 3000GT VR-4 and an H22 CRX, and my parents helped me by saying "quit spending money on your fucking car!". i have not built a $100,000 car, but i have built a honda that runs 12's on a stock motor on street tires.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. i personally, lost any respect i may have had for Jesse James once he said "all the cool products at Auto Zone" i also happen to severely dislike APC and Toucan Ind.(ractive, eurolite, ect.) for their riced ass products.
I joined the Coast Gaurd, leave Feb. 24th and will start project SC300TT when i get my sign on bonus, its not a skyline, and its the closest thing to supra i can get.

In the end, i will do my thing, ill keep my opinions and thoughts on what is cool and what is rice and in turn transfer them over to my car and my thoughts on other peoples rides.

Craig will keep doing his thing on the cars most of us wish to tinker with (go on, admit it) but what he does to them is choice (or his sponsors) but as long as HE likes what the finished product is, thats all that matters. other peoples opinions are just that, other peoples.

All the people on H-I will keep doing there thing and i hope they do, i hope people keeping going after what they want and keep a their individuality.

Chuck Rockefeller

[Drink Tapioca]

soo Graig, how much money have YOU made off that "MOVIECARZ" site of yours???

[mofoD]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. i personally, lost any respect i may have had for Jesse James once he said "all the cool products at Auto Zone"


same here man! same here. WTF were u thinking Jesse James?????!?!

[I HATE JDM]

Oh great one has spoken. Let us bow down to him, for he knoweth all.


im guessing thats some kind of joke? or maybe a icch joke about me? fact is i have been in this scene for 13 years. can you say the same?wanna hate on me? thats fine you have the right. personally i am not all to concerned..look at where i am going in the scene. I have many friends in the scene who are very knowledgable and have many resources at hand. instead of flaming people i try to learn from them. i have made mistakes and flamed ppl from time to time but everyone is human. as far as this subject goes. i know alot more then you may think. the allstar logo on craigs car also is on my car. Im not a part of moviecarz.but i do know two people who are around craig each day. I think they know him alot better then ANYONE on this board. what i know i hear from them. they are both the most well respected people in the import community. As i said earlier it does not amaze me that ppl here like to flame or have little comments like your sarcasim. I could say that if you think you know more then show it. but then that would be a waste of space for this board. it is pointless to go about having silly arguements over things of this nature. Your sarcasim will not be forgotten if you ever need or want my help. i do not even know who you are so for you to get on here and "call me out" makes no sense. you do not know me or those clse to me. im sure you have no idea about what i do,who i talk to, who sponsors me or anything.. my point in all this is that. you mr carboy made a comment that you should have retracted bc you do not know me.i spoke on this subject because i have been involved with imports for so long i have watched many ppl come up. we raced side by side kenny tran,jojo,viet lam,charles madrid,tony fuchs, and many many more when they had no big sponsors, just pure love of the sport. so dont come at me like i dont know what im talking about. have a nice day
Jesse

[I HATE JDM]

sorry to have said icch when i should have said houston-imports

[johnnie]

Bummer I had to leave and miss all this good posting yesterday. Honestly I still don't and never did dislike CL as said in most of my post. I did say he was a sellout but then I think that matters as to how sellout is defined. See definition below as CL may or may not be a sellout depending upon his principles. In any case he is a stand up guy for coming on here and explaining to those he didn't have to. For that I'd say he deserves an amount of respect. There are some things that have become clearer to me as I read this thread. Craig did in fact sell his services as an advisor. As an advisor you can only tell your clients the best path, they may not always follow and there is nothing you can do as you have done your job. However there is the saying about the company you keep. I wouldn't be a technical advisor to a mafia don without expecting some possible negative repercussion. In CL's case it results in some people having a less then favorable association of him and the movies. Bottom line is that CL named his price and is happy to have sold his services to these particular clients. Thinking about the whole thing now I have to say I've changed my position a bit. If I had money and was happy with my life doing what I did I would have turned down doing the movie. If I felt I could do much more and go a lot farther in life with the money I would have gotten paid I would have done the movie. Yes it was a crap movie, both of them were but CL did his job, went on to do other things, and is ok with the flack that he catches because it wasn't his movie. He was hired to do the job and he felt ok about it. It's true you can't realy hate CL but more the people who somehow got greenlighted to make those films happen, or maybe even the few of you including me for the first film that forked out money to go see it :(.


sell·out ( P ) Pronunciation Key (slout)
n.
The act of selling out.
An event for which all the tickets are sold.
Slang. One who has betrayed one's principles or an espoused cause.

[andyqbui]

This is a great industry…unfortunately there are many different taste and styles. Like for instance, I work for Import Tuner…there are many cars out there that are hot but not the style that we are looking for. I am a big JDM head, but the civic that I used to own was not JDM at all. It had the “JDM look “. Reason being is because I whored my car out with sponsors. Difference is what makes this industry big and it can only get bigger.

I have to back Craig up. He has been in this industry many of years. I consider him one of the forefathers. He has done so much for this industry and people should respect him for that. His supra before changing it to the Hollywood was hot in my humble opinion. His Skyline used to be black, till this very day I still think it was one of the hottest Skylines around.

Usually when you are the main subject of being “hated on”(like Craig for this instance)…that means the person that is being hated on is doing something right. Did that make sense? When you are on top…people is gonna try and hold you down. P Diddy said it best. “Mo money mo problems”

[johnnie]

Usually when you are the main subject of being “hated on”(like Craig for this instance)…that means the person that is being hated on is doing something right. Did that make sense? When you are on top…people is gonna try and hold you down. P Diddy said it best. “Mo money mo problems”


That does make sense in the right perspective. People hate on MJ but I wouldn't say it's because he's doing something right :). The question in this case wold be. If CL had turned down the job would he still be as big? I can't answer that because I don't know enough. Would he not be catching flack for thier product that he helped bring into existence? Most likely he wouldn't :). It's a double edged sword that he handles well I think.

[Evil Patio]

Anyone can make money, you can't go to someones house, step in, say Im better than you, and demand respect.

I think racers get more respect in this industry rather than the flashy showers, you can't argue with numbers. Show winners and looking good are all opinion.

[johnnie]

Oh one other thing I picked up while surfing around that I didn't see mentioned.


http://cars.ign.com/articles/425/425140p1.html



An interview with craig by IGN. Funny enough it reflects mot everything he said in his post and more. So either he's got it saved somewhere ready to use as a reply or was just nice enough to type it again for the peeps in the cheap seats. Still it's good reading for anyone who has something to say about Craig.

[johnnie]

Anyone can make money, you can't go to someones house, step in, say Im better than you, and demand respect.

I think racers get more respect in this industry rather than the flashy showers, you can't argue with numbers. Show winners and looking good are all opinion.


I'd rather see a drift event any day over a car show. Actually I just prefer working shit that moves over pretty shit sitting still I suppose. :)

[andyqbui]

car shows, races, and now drift event...see how big this industry is growing?

by it growing...theres gonna be more rice, more jdm heads, race head, and show heads. probably more controversial silly little arguments. so what :ugh:

people can find more work these days. i know im loving it

[johnnie]

car shows, races, and now drift event...see how big this industry is growing?

by it growing...theres gonna be more rice, more jdm heads, race head, and show heads. probably more controversial silly little arguments. so what :ugh:

people can find more work these days. i know im loving it


And you think the growth was too slow at first? Or perhaps that these things were not going to happen on thier own?

[Evil Patio]

I'd rather see a drift event any day over a car show. Actually I just prefer working shit that moves over pretty shit sitting still I suppose. :)
Drift events are just car shows in motion. Mind explaining to me how the judging points are accumulated in the drift shows?

So someone sliced bread and put in a toaster, no big difference.

Anyway, to each his own. I know my opinion only matters to me, sometimes. :thumb:

[2.2crx]

i dont care how long someone has been in the "game". No one does/did/will know it all, each day i look back at my life and feel i was dumb then but smart now. in 2 or 3 months i will look back and say the same thing. i will give a little more respect to someone who has stuck to something for a long time. i have been in the skateboard community for 6+years, that doesnt make me a good skater. as i said before it all boils down to personal opinion, show cars nice as long as they got a lot of power. the new import tuner with the "18 best of shows" car, that is the definition of show car, and i dont really like it. but, coverage of an RX-7 with an SR20 that runs 10's is a really beautiful thing.

[Evil Patio]

an RX-7 with an SR20 that runs 10's is a really beautiful thing.
that concept is an insult to most mazda/rotary enthusiasts, but like I said before, to each his own.

[I HATE JDM]

i dont care how long someone has been in the "game". No one does/did/will know it all, . this is very true but at the same time most who stick with it learn alot along the way. and have seen alot..kinda that crawl before you walk thing. if i didnt error as much as i did. i wouldnt know what i do now. the sad part is that i rarely use what i know bc i am not into racing much anymore..always working.

[craig lieberman]

Glad to see many others on this board are sharing their views, good an bad, but with respect towards others.

I especially like the comments about taste being subjective...exactly my point...you like French's mustard, I like wasabi, its' all a matter of taste.

Have you noticed something: a lot of people talk poorly about Ractive, Toucan, APC and others...but....HKS does about $8 (eight) Million per year business in this country. Toucan does about $15 million...APC does about $80 million. Those are REAL numbers.

Someone's buying this (ricey) stuff... In fact, the majority of consumers PREFER this stuff by APC/Toucan/Ractive. But yet so many experts and true core enthusiasts aren't fans of these "ricey" products...seems as if we're in the minority.

That's a whole other discussion. Why does APC outperform HKS sales by a 10 to 1 margin?

[johnnie]

Drift events are just car shows in motion. Mind explaining to me how the judging points are accumulated in the drift shows?

So someone sliced bread and put in a toaster, no big difference.

Anyway, to each his own. I know my opinion only matters to me, sometimes. :thumb:


Well I would hope it was based on skill. If it isn't I don't really care because the skill is what I like to see. Not much driving skill involved in getting your car to it's show place. As for no big diff, that is incorrect. As for food, toasting and not toasting can make or break a meal for me. Your opinion matters to me, without I couldn't state mine :)

[Evil Patio]

That's a whole other discussion. Why does APC outperform HKS sales by a 10 to 1 margin?
Because APC is a cheap, poorly made product and sold to suckers (the mainstream ricers).

This is the reason everyone is mad, Craig. APC is a poorly made product, yet you and anyone else in the industry endorse it like their is no tomorrow. Which means: Kid sees APC sticker at the show (eventhough, APC doesn't make a product for a skyline), kid says to himself, "cool, ill get APC and be like the skyline!", Kid buys a cheap product (probably lights or some muffler light), then he unknowingly is ridaculed by those in the "scene". Which in conclusion, just adds another ricer to scene, which we all see plenty of daily.
:-/

and HKS actually performs, but I'm sure you know that.

[I HATE JDM]

Glad to see many others on this board are sharing their views, good an bad, but with respect towards others.

I especially like the comments about taste being subjective...exactly my point...you like French's mustard, I like wasabi, its' all a matter of taste.

Have you noticed something: a lot of people talk poorly about Ractive, Toucan, APC and others...but....HKS does about $8 (eight) Million per year business in this country. Toucan does about $15 million...APC does about $80 million. Those are REAL numbers.

Someone's buying this (ricey) stuff... In fact, the majority of consumers PREFER this stuff by APC/Toucan/Ractive. But yet so many experts and true core enthusiasts aren't fans of these "ricey" products...seems as if we're in the minority.

That's a whole other discussion. Why does APC outperform HKS sales by a 10 to 1 margin?

i have been loving imports for a long time. I have watched companys come and go. I think marketing plays a key role here. Apc really puts thier name out there. Although i am not a fan of their products, i do commend them on their sucess. I do like the fact that they appreciate true performance as well. example,team orange.
whether people will admit it or not. we are impressionable. we like things that are in pretty packaging and are flashy. if we think somethings "cool" most likely we will want it. there are alot of people on this board who buy apc products. Hks does not advertise like apc does. Hks being of high quality also is a little out of reach for some. the trends right now are the "look" of a drifter,jdm style,race cars etc. i have noticed a shift towards people wating to have a certain look more so then performance. i say this as a generalization. I know there are people who want to go fast etc. but when you step back and look around youll see most just want to "look cool".

some may agree some may disagree.but like i said i am talking about the scene as a whole...i mean now days i see familys driving down the road with lighted washer nozzles. and loud mufflers.
props to apc for having the highest revenues

[johnnie]

Because APC is a cheap, poorly made product and sold to suckers (the mainstream ricers).

This is the reason everyone is mad, Craig. APC is a poorly made product, yet you and anyone else in the industry endorse it like their is no tomorrow. Which means: Kid sees APC sticker at the show (eventhough, APC doesn't make a product for a skyline), kid says to himself, "cool, ill get APC and be like the skyline!", Kid buys a cheap product (probably lights or some muffler light), then he unknowingly is ridaculed by those in the "scene". Which in conclusion, just adds another ricer to scene, which we all see plenty of daily.
:-/

and HKS actually performs, but I'm sure you know that.


Thanks I couldn't think up the words quickly.

[axio]

Because APC is a cheap, poorly made product and sold to suckers (the mainstream ricers).

This is the reason everyone is mad, Craig. APC is a poorly made product, yet you and anyone else in the industry endorse it like their is no tomorrow. Which means: Kid sees APC sticker at the show (eventhough, APC doesn't make a product for a skyline), kid says to himself, "cool, ill get APC and be like the skyline!", Kid buys a cheap product (probably lights or some muffler light), then he unknowingly is ridaculed by those in the "scene". Which in conclusion, just adds another ricer to scene, which we all see plenty of daily.
:-/

and HKS actually performs, but I'm sure you know that.
marketing, marketing, marketing

it is what makes or breaks a brand

as nice as HKS is when you offer the average tuner who is making $400 a month at burger king to work on his car (that is devoted) the choice between a $150 muffler or a $600 exhaust... he's going to go for the $150.

[Evil Patio]

marsha, marsha, marsha

It's still a poor quailty product that has spread like a disease to imports, yet all the industry greats support it, because it supports them, because ricers support it.

:-/

[civic_carboy]

im guessing thats some kind of joke? or maybe a icch joke about me? fact is i have been in this scene for 13 years. can you say the same?wanna hate on me? thats fine you have the right. personally i am not all to concerned..look at where i am going in the scene. I have many friends in the scene who are very knowledgable and have many resources at hand. instead of flaming people i try to learn from them. i have made mistakes and flamed ppl from time to time but everyone is human. as far as this subject goes. i know alot more then you may think. the allstar logo on craigs car also is on my car. Im not a part of moviecarz.but i do know two people who are around craig each day. I think they know him alot better then ANYONE on this board. what i know i hear from them. they are both the most well respected people in the import community. As i said earlier it does not amaze me that ppl here like to flame or have little comments like your sarcasim. I could say that if you think you know more then show it. but then that would be a waste of space for this board. it is pointless to go about having silly arguements over things of this nature. Your sarcasim will not be forgotten if you ever need or want my help. i do not even know who you are so for you to get on here and "call me out" makes no sense. you do not know me or those clse to me. im sure you have no idea about what i do,who i talk to, who sponsors me or anything.. my point in all this is that. you mr carboy made a comment that you should have retracted bc you do not know me.i spoke on this subject because i have been involved with imports for so long i have watched many ppl come up. we raced side by side kenny tran,jojo,viet lam,charles madrid,tony fuchs, and many many more when they had no big sponsors, just pure love of the sport. so dont come at me like i dont know what im talking about. have a nice day
Jesse


Nice. Thanks for flooding my mind with such useful information. I guess I should feel overwhelmed with the amount of "scene" knowlegde you have provided me with. For that I am thankful. Is this where i come in and make my list of people I know or how long i've been racing? No thanks, I tend not to flaunt my friends/aquaintences, or experience in a certain feild.

I wasn't flaming you in least, and you don't know ME just as much as i don't know you. It's quite funny sometimes how much of a confidence builder it can be to some people to automatically jump on others for voicing their opinion.

Your personality shines pretty bright through the words you type, and obviously you ARE "all too concerned", or you wouldn't have spent the time to try and educate me on your veteran ways in this industry. GG, man. I'm proud.

[CheeseFrog]

That's a whole other discussion. Why does APC outperform HKS sales by a 10 to 1 margin?
That's a gimmie. APC has a much faster time to market than HKS does. It takes a long time to engineer electronic devices that HKS is famous for. R&D, testing, etc. By the time HKS has developed a worthy release candidate, there's already 2 or 3 other things out on the market that do the exact same thing. Whereas APC can react a lot faster to changing market demands because the majority of their products aren't tied into any critical operating system of the car. Come up with a new mold for some tail lights, crank out a few thousand pieces, and you're done. Next month the next big thing is clear blue tail lights? No problem.

APC also has a shitload of their product in the channel by way of huge nation-wide retailers like Pep Boys. Nobody walks into a store, sees a $900 HKS VPC unit and goes, "You know, I think I'll pick one of those up for my car." But when it comes to sub-$100 items like shift knobs, accessory lighting, and floor mats, people eat that shit up. Cheap stuff sells. Better to get 2% of a ricers paycheck than 100% of none of it, right?

APC also offers contingency money to racers. What Jesse said about us all being impressionable is very true. When people at races see APC products being run on cars of top-name racers, that does nothing but help sell the product. Cheap advertising! Pay $500 worth of contingency money and you just picked up 50,000 impressions for your product. It's all pretty simple stuff, really.

[axio]

marsha, marsha, marsha

It's still a poor quailty product that has spread like a disease to imports, yet all the industry greats support it, because it supports them, because ricers support it.

:-/
Those ricers made people billions and drove down the price of parts because of competition. Remember when an intake cost $400+? Now you can find one for about $250.

[Mobil1]

That's a whole other discussion. Why does APC outperform HKS sales by a 10 to 1 margin?the average civic owner has very little clue what HKS is because they are not marketed very well here in our country. also, APC and Ractive are cheap parts that have nothing to do with performance. they make the car "look cool", which is what most people are going for these days.

if HKS would start making huge aluminum wings, led washer lights and sell them at every local autozone i bet apc would get a run for its money. its all about the looks, not about the performance these days (for ricers atleast). sad but true.

[johnnie]

if HKS would start making huge aluminum wings, led washer lights and sell them at every local autozone i bet apc would get a run for its money. its all about the looks, not about the performance these days (for ricers atleast). sad but true.


God I hope I never see that day. :ugh:

[I HATE JDM]

Nice. Thanks for flooding my mind with such useful information. I guess I should feel overwhelmed with the amount of "scene" knowlegde you have provided me with. For that I am thankful. Is this where i come in and make my list of people I know or how long i've been racing? No thanks, I tend not to flaunt my friends/aquaintences, or experience in a certain feild.

I wasn't flaming you in least, and you don't know ME just as much as i don't know you. It's quite funny sometimes how much of a confidence builder it can be to some people to automatically jump on others for voicing their opinion.

Your personality shines pretty bright through the words you type, and obviously you ARE "all too concerned", or you wouldn't have spent the time to try and educate me on your veteran ways in this industry. GG, man. I'm proud.

lol funny how you werent flaming...coulda fooled me with your comments.i am not flaunting anything. what i am/was trying to say is that if you have no direct concerns or have not been directly involved with the scene(other then a civic on rotas) then why voice your opinion on it. i did not try to educate you on my "veteran ways". i was giving you insight as to why i commented. which i say again, i have seen the scene change. when it changes it affects me for better and for worse. this is a business to me not just a sport so i do not take things of this nature lightly. i do not see any input you contributed other then your two cents directed towards me.as you said you dont know. so now was your comment really nescessary?

[OneArmedScissor]

APC makes a lot of money simply because they put out a LOT of cheap parts.
APC doesn't spend a lot of money on making sure their products work right.
There is no way to return their SHIT if it DOESNT work right.
You have no idea how many times people have asked me to help them with installing an APC part and then I discover it doesnt fit because it WON'T fit. APC won't let you return their product and get your money back.

HKS makes a quality product and are devoted to that ideal.
APC is devoted to taking your money and thats where THEIR research and development goes.

I see tons of cars around here with apc products and you know what...they still like MY car better. MY car still gets compliments. People ASK ME WHERE I GOT MY STUFF FROM.

the problem is not everyone knows WHERE to get quality products at a decent price.

Ever been to Japan?
Walk into super AutoBacs. See tons of quality parts at reasonable prices. (still expensive, but REASONABLE!)
Americans would rather have MORE THINGS but shitty quality things.
The Japanese culture has learned the value of buying a quality part because if someone makes a bad part, their name is forever tarnished and they lose business.
Nobody publishes all of APC's fuckups so widely.

(and if anyone says that APC is popular in japan i will shoot you. that is a completely false lie. they have many parts that LOOK like apc, but they all actually FIT and when they "rice" out cars they still manage to make them look attractive. no unpainted body kits and shit here)

I could go on about the scene, but I'm not really an active member. I am only pleasing myself and spending lots of hard earned money on parts...none of it is APC.
I work on my own car, and I like when parts actually fit.

And I like to hold companies responsible for parts that don't fit.


It's like the argument about a band selling out. Just because a band is making money does not mean that their music is a quality product. They are simply marketing to the mainstream making a mediocre product with wide appeal. APC is the "boy band" of the industry.
Smaller retailers devote themselves to making a quality product AND turning a profit simply because they value respect and prestige. The bottom line is not everything and I am sorry that you think that way.

[OneArmedScissor]

the average civic owner has very little clue what HKS is because they are not marketed very well here in our country. also, APC and Ractive are cheap parts that have nothing to do with performance. they make the car "look cool", which is what most people are going for these days.

if HKS would start making huge aluminum wings, led washer lights and sell them at every local autozone i bet apc would get a run for its money. its all about the looks, not about the performance these days (for ricers atleast). sad but true.

but then nobody would be scared when they see a little HKS sticker on the side of your car.

I don't generally worry about the average car with an apc sticker when i roll up next to it. in fact i generally point and laugh.

i should go around and take some pictures of the "APC" cars. in fact i think ill get a video of them and how gay they look.

its not about taste. there are RULES to aesthetics. Post modernist complete acceptance of all viewpoints. does NOT apply to this situation.

[OneArmedScissor]

no offense to craig about the apc thing.

his cars are the object of desire for every high school dropout who currently works at your local fast food chain.


when you become a public figure you open yourself to criticism. if you can't take it, get the fuck out. if you don't like it, get the fuck out.

i know i should probably shut my mouth but i have an opinion on this and it is as follows: im sorry and i should not make fun of you. you obviously have a disability and its not cool to make fun of disabilities. I admire you for how well you hide your disability and manage to be a proud member of the limelight.

It must be very difficult for a BLIND guy like you to have become such a great modifier of cars in the industry.

GG HOMIE!

[axio]

:rofl: @ Milin

[the Asshats]

IBTL - :o

[johnnie]

Smaller retailers devote themselves to making a quality product AND turning a profit simply because they value respect and prestige. The bottom line is not everything and I am sorry that you think that way.


well said and refreshing to hear.

[johnnie]

IBTL - :o

Hmmm a lock on a decent expression of opinions. Probably one of the better threads this forum has seen. Obviously CL thought it was worth his time to post on. IBTL I think not.

[Mobil1]

but then nobody would be scared when they see a little HKS sticker on the side of your car.

I don't generally worry about the average car with an apc sticker when i roll up next to it. in fact i generally point and laugh.

i should go around and take some pictures of the "APC" cars. in fact i think ill get a video of them and how gay they look.

its not about taste. there are RULES to aesthetics. Post modernist complete acceptance of all viewpoints. does NOT apply to this situation.thats not what i was getting at. i meant that if HKS were to stop producing quality parts and release a slew of cheap ricey parts through autozone they would make more money. may that never come to pass.

and youre right, if HKS did that, no one would fear a car with an HKS sticker on it.

[2.2crx]

that concept is an insult to most mazda/rotary enthusiasts, but like I said before, to each his own.

True, i thought it was an insult but it is fast and different.

Patio, CheeseFrog, and TsiTiger make good points about APC being cheap and shit, that HKS is out of teh price range of most kids with burger jobs, HKS needs R&D time, APC needs to make a new tailight mold, big difference.
i had typed a long post but lost it, so fuck it.

[the Asshats]

Hmmm a lock on a decent expression of opinions. Probably one of the better threads this forum has seen. Obviously CL thought it was worth his time to post on. IBTL I think not.

[Not directed to you]..
There is a difference in stating or expressing your opinions and straight up flaming and being immature about it. Some people that posted on here... it just seemed like there is a stick up there ass. Like Craig did something personally to you... Who cares... The bottom line is... if being a sell-out includes modifying cars to please peoples eyes... making lots of money doing it.. Im pretty sure 90% of this forum would do it. Hell, I would be a sell-out anyday if that is what it involved. You act as if Craig ruined the "scene" .. Like there still is a scene.. the scene sucks. yes indeed it does. There was a crap load of ricers before The Fast and The Furious.. I can't believe you people are upset over the movie.. It's a MOVIE... the point of the movie was to entertain you... and hell.. it entertained me....I enjoyed it, but what do I know. .I'm just a ricer so my opinion doesn't matter. =\


roffles.. this thread is pointless and I feel really stupid after reading it.. :( :hs:

[topsecretSUPRA]

If it makes you guys feel any better, APC is now selling their own line of Drift Products called "Drift Works" I believe. :D

[2.2crx]

no, it doesnt.

and yes, this is a good thread, lots of good arguments and good thoughts and shit

[OneArmedScissor]

if apc did more marketing research and made parts that fit id be behind them all the way.

if you put ME in charge of the company you'd see even more sales and the "hardcore" crowd as well as the budget ricer would all be taken care of.

they forget that the hardcore crowd is willing to spend craploads of money.

[the Asshats]

if apc did more marketing research and made parts that fit id be behind them all the way.

if you put ME in charge of the company you'd see even more sales and the "hardcore" crowd as well as the budget ricer would all be taken care of.

they forget that the hardcore crowd is willing to spend craploads of money.


True true... milin start your own company.. now now now :)

[topsecretSUPRA]

no, it doesnt.

and yes, this is a good thread, lots of good arguments and good thoughts and shit

My bad man. Just thought I would make a funny :thumb:

[the Asshats]

My bad man. Just thought I would make a funny :thumb:


lol.. make a funny :P

[johnnie]

[Not directed to you]..
There is a difference in stating or expressing your opinions and straight up flaming and being immature about it. Some people that posted on here... it just seemed like there is a stick up there ass. Like Craig did something personally to you... Who cares... The bottom line is... if being a sell-out includes modifying cars to please peoples eyes... making lots of money doing it.. Im pretty sure 90% of this forum would do it. Hell, I would be a sell-out anyday if that is what it involved. You act as if Craig ruined the "scene" .. Like there still is a scene.. the scene sucks. yes indeed it does. There was a crap load of ricers before The Fast and The Furious.. I can't believe you people are upset over the movie.. It's a MOVIE... the point of the movie was to entertain you... and hell.. it entertained me....I enjoyed it, but what do I know. .I'm just a ricer so my opinion doesn't matter. =\


roffles.. this thread is pointless and I feel really stupid after reading it.. :( :hs:

You are very right about a few things. Craig didn't ruin the scene. No one single person has. If anything it's the amount of people who stupidly flame newbs for trying to learn something. If more of us people who think we know something about decent design would go out and help newbs there wouldn't be so much trash around. Mostly though if you are a newb and trying to start out you get haters first then peeps who want to help you do stuff right. By that time it's too late and you have yourself a ricer. In any case it's not Craig's fault or even the makers of the movies fault. If there was no demand there would be no crap. However on the other side if people like rob cohen got the door slamed in thier face for coming up with shit like this, well that wouldn't hurt too much either. Anyone upset over a single movie or person for the way the scene is needs to look a lot deeper. Also this thread has been one of the better I've seen. I'm glad I kept bumping it up so much initialy.

[2.2crx]

My bad man. Just thought I would make a funny
i was just messin w/you anyway....make a funny

[Evil Patio]

Anyone upset over a single movie or person for the way the scene is needs to look a lot deeper.
I wouldnt directly blame the movie, but were you by chance out at Sonic(before it was Sonic) on Westhiemer the day F&F debuted?

I know dumb kids wanna be Karate champs when they see a chuck norris movie, but it was ridiculus. :-/

[2.2crx]

yeah, you cant blame one thing or one person, its collective.

[Mobil1]

If it makes you guys feel any better, APC is now selling their own line of Drift Products called "Drift Works" I believe. :DIBEvenBiggerWings.

[2.2crx]

IBEvenBiggerWings.
:wrd: except these will be farbon ciber and will be bent up the middle for MAXIMUM TRACTION!!!! or maximum drag

[andyqbui]

This industry is like the circle of life. I learned this watching the Lion King. We all need each other in some since.

You have your rice, your show heads, your racers, street racers, drifter, and so on. I know the majority of the mainstream market is rice…but they are keeping the industry alive. What do I mean? Well, I work for a magazine. I don’t get paid if there are no advertisers. APC, Ractive, Toucan advertise like a mug. With out them people I like me don’t get paid. If we don’t get paid then there will be no photographers/editors. If there’s no photographer/ editors then there is no magazine. If there is no magazine, then people won’t know what to shop for. If people don’t know what to shop for then APC, Ractive, or even HKS wouldn’t make any business. That means there’s no aftermarket world and we would all be driving stock cars.

I honestly don’t know why people argue over such silly little things. It is what it is and no matter what one person thinks…it’s not going to change anything.

This hobby of ours is turning into an art. You can’t really judge art. Sure there is bad art and good art…but there are no rights and wrongs.

I really don’t go into this forum much but from what I’ve been exposed to, there are a lot of big headed people out there. I’m not gonna name names, but some of yall swear that you are Gods gift to the world. I find it rather amusing. Just remember this old saying “there’s always someone bigger and better”

my humble two pennies :afro:

[2.2crx]

riiiiight.

[TopSeller]

if i owned apc i would have a commercial of ppl breakin altezza lights

[2.2crx]

:wrd:

[Vic]

I really don’t go into this forum much but from what I’ve been exposed to, there are a lot of big headed people out there. I’m not gonna name names, but some of yall swear that you are Gods gift to the world. I find it rather amusing. Just remember this old saying “there’s always someone bigger and better”

my humble two pennies :afro:


I agree. Must be the heat of competition.

[alreadyknow]

Craig, can i have your autograph?

[craig lieberman]

Craig, can i have your autograph?
Yes, you can have my autograph...on an APC catalog, ok? ;-) If you really want one, get it on a check....that's the only way it'll be worth anything! ;-)

Lots of good comments and thoughts being shared. Andy Bui had some great points....

Can I add another brain buster? Ever notice how APC and others like them sell to Wal Mart, Pep Boys, Auto Zone etc.? Wouldn't you think HKS, Greddy, VeilSide and Nismo would WANT to sell to such stores, making their products more accessible to more people? I'm surprised no one has asked that question....want to know the REAL answer?

These retailers have ALL approached all of these companies. They refuse to sell to them. Why? Its a complicated matter of their business model, but to make a long story short, Japanese companies don't like paying taxes to the American government, for one thing. This means that a company like an HKS Japan must sell products to HKS USA at a high price, leaving no room for proper pricing structure so that companies like Auto Zone can put them into distribution and make money.

Another key factor is the hassle and tariffs associated with imports, not to mention customs' brokers fees and lastly, no way in hell an HKS could turn out 30,000 Gt3037 turbo kits for mass distribution.

Lastly, consider this: HKS and such companies mostly sell high end stuff for higher end cars (Supras, WRX's, Skylines). Now...how many of these do you see in middle America in places like Alabama, Texas, Tennessee, Wisconsin...places that the retailers like Pep Boys and Auto Zone have dozens of stores?

How do I know this? 7 years at NGK Spark Plugs seeing this being done to a T every day....

Now these companies, if queried, will make the point that their products are highly technical and auto retailer stores are not equipped to handle the technical support of such complex products. That's true, also. But as I showcased, that's not the whole story.

Like I said...everyone SAYS they want HKS or Greddy for their Supra, Civic, whatever, but HKS sells $8 million a year, APC does $80 million....someone's buying this stuff. Of course....no one we know, right? ;-)

[civperc]

Dear Craig,

http://images.lamer.net/apcrap.gif

Disgusted, civperc


p.s. - Stop ricing out decent automobiles, k thx :thumb:

[civperc]

....someone's buying this stuff. Of course....no one we know, right? ;-)

Correct, someone IS buying that junk; mislead teenagers who lack a true sense of what "pride in ownership" consists of. Actually you are correct twice which is utterly amazing; no-one I associate with does buy APC products, because they exercise informed purchasing methods.

You telling us that APC is a better company producing higher quality parts than HKS, Apex'i, and the like, is laughable. What respect I held for you years ago has been irretrievably lost.

Do not try and match wits with us, the true import enthusiasts, because you are clearly no longer in touch with reality Mr. Lieberman.

[veritas]

Hey Civperc, all I see is a red X, what is it?

[civperc]

Ah, seems as if the host isn't up to par today.

Here it is on my own server - http://www.civperc.com/apcrap.gif

[Mobil1]

^^
:roflmao:

[veritas]

American Poser Company

[EET FUK]

Correct, someone IS buying that junk; mislead teenagers who lack a true sense of what "pride in ownership" consists of. Actually you are correct twice which is utterly amazing; no-one I associate with does buy APC products, because they exercise informed purchasing methods.

You telling us that APC is a better company producing higher quality parts than HKS, Apex'i, and the like, is laughable. What respect I held for you years ago has been irretrievably lost.

Do not try and match wits with us, the true import enthusiasts, because you are clearly no longer in touch with reality Mr. Lieberman.

actually, Lieberman is correct. How many people want to make their cars look nicer or go a little faster? How many people can afford an HKS turbo kit? APC did it the right way. Buy putting out some of the most affordable parts on the market and catering to the 70% of the market that does want clear tails and winsheild squirter lights. These products make the money.

When you get to a certain point in the industry, it becomes less about enthusiasm and more about money. theyve made this their daily grind, which is something that MANY of the posters here would kill to do. And I guarantee that if you saw the checks the boys at APC were getting to make cars you think are "ugly", youd push them taillights like they were going out of style.

Just being in the scene, reading the magazines and whatnot only gives you the outsiders perspective of what this industry really is about.

Personally, I think if you are indeed a true enthusiast youd be willing to make a few compromises to get to where Craig Lieberman is. He gets to be a part of the shit youd totally kill to see. I mean come on, the guy makes cars you think might be ugly, but its obvious that SOMEONE is buying them and giving him the freedom to do it more often and for even more money.

So ask yourselves who really are the ones who are no longer in touch with reality. If you want this industry to be all about enthusiasm, get a time machine and go back to 1995. These folks are the ones that got you here in the first place. Do you think they like seeing you guys be little assholes about things like this? Much like you guys think the kids influenced by The Fast and The Furious be little pricks and fix up things you dont like.

[andyqbui]

actually, Lieberman is correct. How many people want to make their cars look nicer or go a little faster? How many people can afford an HKS turbo kit? APC did it the right way. Buy putting out some of the most affordable parts on the market and catering to the 70% of the market that does want clear tails and winsheild squirter lights. These products make the money.

When you get to a certain point in the industry, it becomes less about enthusiasm and more about money. theyve made this their daily grind, which is something that MANY of the posters here would kill to do. And I guarantee that if you saw the checks the boys at APC were getting to make cars you think are "ugly", youd push them taillights like they were going out of style.

Just being in the scene, reading the magazines and whatnot only gives you the outsiders perspective of what this industry really is about.

Personally, I think if you are indeed a true enthusiast youd be willing to make a few compromises to get to where Craig Lieberman is. He gets to be a part of the shit youd totally kill to see. I mean come on, the guy makes cars you think might be ugly, but its obvious that SOMEONE is buying them and giving him the freedom to do it more often and for even more money.

So ask yourselves who really are the ones who are no longer in touch with reality. If you want this industry to be all about enthusiasm, get a time machine and go back to 1995. These folks are the ones that got you here in the first place. Do you think they like seeing you guys be little assholes about things like this? Much like you guys think the kids influenced by The Fast and The Furious be little pricks and fix up things you dont like.


one word...amen

[UgotRipped7]

this thread is still going?!?! geez.

[2.2crx]

Craig and face:face are correct. To get to the top you have to compromise. I even gave serious thought about my car. My car has not been running since August, and if APC aproached me and said $10k and a sponsorship and tailights.... regretfully, i would take it. 10K would put me into the 11's no doubt. sellout, fuck you, i did what i had to do to get ahead and get my car running.

but... since i sold my last week and will not be purchasing another honda (SC300TT) i will have to still say FUCK APC.

When you get to the big time sponsorship level it is a whole nother ballgame. i cannot fully (but partially) understand it until I nor anyone, else is at that level.

Craig did what he had to do to get ahead, i would do what i had to do to get ahead.
Fuck all of that shit, fuck APC. im drunk and will continue to post my opinions. fuck you if you do not like it.

[2.2crx]

Like I said...everyone SAYS they want HKS or Greddy for their Supra, Civic, whatever, but HKS sells $8 million a year, APC does $80 million....someone's buying this stuff. Of course....no one we know, right? ;-)

when i build my 2JZ-GTTE HKS and GReddy will be the only companies to grace my motor or my car. APC will have to lick my left nut and make the right one jealous, which will never happen, my nuts dont get jealous. in fact, the only people i know that do have or support APC products were the litlle ricers that i would half-gas, beat, and then have them trip nuts over how crazy my engine swap is/how fast it is ect.

you do make really good points about the world of import cars today, however, i do not agree with some of them and will continue to voice my opinion/thoughts on what i think and how i feel. have a nice day.

[I HATE JDM]

heres a thought....all these people bitching about these "low end products" post pictures of your cars..lets see how many replica parts you have and low end products since you ALL are sooo quick to blame. so lets all post up our cars and parts and then see who has teh right to talk about how they would never buy this or that and how your car only has the top of the line products... i see alot of talk..i wont name names but some people on this thread do NOT use good products on their car. many use " REPLICA " and in my mind the only thing that replica means is RICE...because you are contributing to ripping off someone elses ideas and hard work...TALK IS CHEAP post your ride. we have all seen craigs ride...he uses TOP END PRODUCTS...ANDY BUI uses top end products...they have every right to vioce their opinions in the matter...all i see from some others is blah blah blah.." i would never buy that blah blah." then they walk out side to their car with the lower end products and forget they just said "only top notch for me"

- that was not directed at any-ONE person...more a overall view of how people are now-adays so if you read that and find offense..all i can say is the truth hurts huh?

Jesse

[OriginaleBadBoy]

guy you need a hug or something. its not that serious. :rofl:

[andyqbui]

isnt kenny tran sponsored by apc? his car is hella fast isnt it? do you guys consider him a sellout?

if yall do...i dont know what to say. i still support kenny tran...GO KENNY

[OriginaleBadBoy]

isnt kenny tran sponsored by apc? his car is hella fast isnt it? do you guys consider him a sellout?

if yall do...i dont know what to say. i still support kenny tran...GO KENNY

Houston is a carshow town. Thats why the race circuits dont come here anymore. Noone will know who he is. :roflmao:

[andyqbui]

im afraid you are right about houston :bawling:

chris mugsni changed the scene up in h-town...gooooo chrit!

i wanna correct myself...i dont think kenny is sponsored by apc...or is he?

but never the less...he still rocking some altezza tails on his race car

kenny is still my hero tho

[OriginaleBadBoy]

im afraid you are right about houston :bawling:

chris mugsni changed the scene up in h-town...gooooo chrit!

i wanna correct myself...i dont think kenny is sponsored by apc...or is he?

but never the less...he still rocking some altezza tails on his race car

kenny is still my hero tho

I think that would be Lisa Kubo. :)

[Evil Patio]

GO SATURN!

[Tito Escobar]

The only thing i read over and over again is that its CL fault for some people having diffrent taste than others. I thought that was the ability for each person to make their own decision on how or with what they are gonna mod their car with??? I mean i don't see CL putting a gun up to anyones head saying buy APC or some other cheap knock off brand. What if they are n00bs and they see the price diffirence and wanna save a buck or two?? Maybe down the line they will learn about the top tier products and start to purchase those.

Also why are some of the people arguing against CL own stock or never have been seen with a modded vehicle??? I mean if all you bought was an intake, you then are a ricer too.

Again there are some well placed arguements on both sides, although blaming CL for someone else having bad taste is pretty much stupid. One persons garbage is another persons treasure.

[2.2crx]

:wrd: cant blame one person.

[Evil Patio]

I believe the subject has been beaten to death, everyone take 5 and smoke a cig, this one's going to the archives.