Mazda plans to battle hybrids with clean diesel technology

[VH_Supra26]

by Viknesh Vijayenthiran
http://www.motorauthority.com/content/thumbs/m/a/mazda_2_2_mzr_cd_main630-0326-630x360.jpg
Mazda already offers a 2.2L MZR-CD diesel engine in cars like the Mazda3 and Mazda6

Diesel pundits have consistently argued that a good oil-burner can match, and in some cases outdo, a comparable hybrid powertrain when it comes to fuel-economy. Carmakers on the other hand, possibly motivated by the green image presented by hybrid vehicles, have been spending billions of dollars on developing new hybrid and plug-in hybrid technologies.

Mazda is one of the few major carmakers bucking this trend, announcing today that it plans to develop a new diesel engine that will be cheaper and about as fuel-efficient as some hybrid cars by 2011.

Mazda has already set itself a target of increasing its fleet average fuel-economy by 30% by 2015, and to achieve this the carmaker will not only launch the new diesel but also new turbocharged petrol engines, ultra-efficient automatic and dual-clutch transmissions, and lighter vehicles.

Most of the technologies are still being developed, but Mazda has already announced that a 2.0L version of its next-generation diesel will offer the fuel-economy of a 660cc petrol engine or similarly sized mild hybrid system.

Speaking with Reuters, Mazda R&D chief Seita Kanai explained that hybrids, while popular, are usually more expensive than simple diesel models. He added that a diesel engine tends to be more reliable and cheaper to repair than petrol-electric hybrid powertrain.

Kanai was keen to point out, however, that Mazda hasn’t completely given up on hybrid and electric vehicles, and that it would start to launch such models beyond 2015.

All Content Copyright 2006-2008 Motor Authority

http://www.motorauthority.com/mazda-plans-to-battle-hybrids-with-clean-diesel-technology.html

[Red88Si]

Mazda is one of the few major carmakers bucking this trend, announcing today that it plans to develop a new diesel engine that will be cheaper and about as fuel-efficient as some hybrid cars by 2011.


Cheaper, more fuel efficient, and better long-term reliability with no $10,000 batteries to replace every 10 years.

[Corrosive]

^+1

[CZero]

Yeah but it's far from the first.
This is like old news. Almost like honda claiming it had the first variable valve timing system.

[Ak1m0to]

^ yeah, but no one is doing it here in the states.
We need some clean diesel vehicles !

[Replica]

Mazda trying to do something different? That did go too good the last time. *cough* rotary *cough*

[Poptarts]

I thought the purpose of creating and developing new hybrid and alternative fuel source technology was to lower pollutant emissions, not necessarily fuel economy.

These diesel engines may be more efficient than a plug-in hybrid or hydrogen cell car, but I would be willing to bet that in comparison the diesel polluting emissions are much higher.

[Narcissistic]

Cheaper, more fuel efficient, and better long-term reliability with no $10,000 batteries to replace every 10 years.

Fail. Diesel is more expensive. Most batteries are replacable under their long warranties and even still they are only 3k$. which a lot of insurance companies will cover. Plus most people trade in cars every 5-6 years.

Hybrid@4.15 a gallon > Diesel@5.15 a gallon.

Plus, it's a freaking Mazda. The Dodge of Japan.

[Hames]

Fail. Diesel is more expensive. Most batteries are replacable under their long warranties and even still they are only 3k$. which a lot of insurance companies will cover. Plus most people trade in cars every 5-6 years.

Hybrid@4.15 a gallon > Diesel@5.15 a gallon.

Plus, it's a freaking Mazda. The Dodge of Japan.

Toyota Prius 48/45mpg (8 cent per mile/9 cents per mile)
Vw Polo Diesel 57/88mpg (9 cents per mile/ 5 cents per mile)

Diesels last longer and are made to be stronger engines that gas vehicles. I mean if the Germans can do why couldn't the Japanese. And with various new fuel sources coming onto the market from sources like recycled plastics and vegetables the price of diesel will go down.

Looks like no more rotary cars after 2015 if they are try to bump up the fleet average.:eek3dance

[Red88Si]

Fail. Diesel is more expensive. Most batteries are replacable under their long warranties and even still they are only 3k$. which a lot of insurance companies will cover. Plus most people trade in cars every 5-6 years.

Hybrid@4.15 a gallon > Diesel@5.15 a gallon.

Plus, it's a freaking Mazda. The Dodge of Japan.

Yeah, just about all of that is wrong. Some manufacturers warrant battery replacement, most do not, and insurance companies certainly will not. Tesla offers a "warranty" of sorts, where you pay them up front to replace the battery when it goes dead, and you get a discounted rate.

Diesel may be more expensive, but considering standard diesel engines can achieve just about what gas/electric hybrids can, in a cheaper vehicle, it's merely a tradeoff. Plus, last I checked, there was less than 50 cents difference between diesel and regular, and since diesels can and do run over 20% more economically than non-hybrid gas engines, you're doing better than breaking even.

The battery cost I stated may have been extreme, but my point is valid nonetheless. Diesels are built to a higher degree of strength and precision than gas engines are, generally. That's why you see 300,000, 500,000, or even 1,000,000 miles on plenty of diesel vehicles. That's not to mention the crazy miles an 18-wheeler could clock, with major engine work typically required only every million or so miles. $3000 every 8 years (expected life span of a Prius battery) is a good chunk of change more than you'd be spending with a non-hybrid diesel.

And for your sake, I won't even mention how you could drive a hundred miles for a dime with waste vegetable oil... Except where I mentioned it right there.

[RoMoCOP]

:thumb:

[winc281]

I won't even mention how you could drive a hundred miles for a dime with waste vegetable oil... Except where I mentioned it right there.

wrd

Many manufacturers see the US as being anti-diesel. That's way companies like Ford don't bring certain diesels stateside that they may sell abroad like in Europe. Ford has a diesel (I think Focus) that makes close to 60mpg.

[Narcissistic]

Yeah, just about all of that is wrong. Some manufacturers warrant battery replacement, most do not, and insurance companies certainly will not. Tesla offers a "warranty" of sorts, where you pay them up front to replace the battery when it goes dead, and you get a discounted rate.

Diesel may be more expensive, but considering standard diesel engines can achieve just about what gas/electric hybrids can, in a cheaper vehicle, it's merely a tradeoff. Plus, last I checked, there was less than 50 cents difference between diesel and regular, and since diesels can and do run over 20% more economically than non-hybrid gas engines, you're doing better than breaking even.

The battery cost I stated may have been extreme, but my point is valid nonetheless. Diesels are built to a higher degree of strength and precision than gas engines are, generally. That's why you see 300,000, 500,000, or even 1,000,000 miles on plenty of diesel vehicles. That's not to mention the crazy miles an 18-wheeler could clock, with major engine work typically required only every million or so miles. $3000 every 8 years (expected life span of a Prius battery) is a good chunk of change more than you'd be spending with a non-hybrid diesel.

And for your sake, I won't even mention how you could drive a hundred miles for a dime with waste vegetable oil... Except where I mentioned it right there.

Name 1 manufacturer that builds a car FOR SALE that they intend to last longer than 100k miles. And we're STILL talking mazda here.

[Red88Si]

Name 1 manufacturer that builds a car FOR SALE that they intend to last longer than 100k miles. And we're STILL talking mazda here.

A quick search on Autotrader finds me 53 Mazdas with over a hundred thousand miles on the odometer. You still don't have a valid point, since Mazda doesn't sell a diesel vehicle in the States.

Regardless, everyone intends their vehicles to last forever, yet most don't. Very few cars are incapable of lasting over 100,000 miles, but what really gets 'em are morons whose idea of maintenance is keeping gas in the tank (and sometimes they don't even do that right). Perhaps you're one of them?

I've never owned a car with less than 125k miles, and I've also owned cars with 200k, 250k, and 360k miles, the last one of which is still running and belongs to my stepdad as a daily driver. Never owned a diesel, but I plan on having one within the next few years just so I know I'll have a running vehicle until the sun explodes.

That "Dodge of Japan" statement surely made you look like an ignorant, opinionated fool. I may be opinionated, but I at least try to bring facts to the table.

[Red88Si]

Sorry for DP, quick addition to answer the high mileage manufacturer question: Cummins Rams generally last many hundreds of thousands of miles, most other diesel trucks do, as well. As stated before, Mercedes diesels tend to have high numbers of miles. Here are a few quick picks.

2004, 297k miles (http://houston.craigslist.org/ctd/1096707538.html)
2003, 131k miles (http://houston.craigslist.org/ctd/1096774554.html)
1995, 315k miles (http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/1095311518.html)

[Narcissistic]

Hondas last well over 100k too. I said, which you never answered, what company makes a car intented to last longer than 100k? they all intend for the consumer to buy new/trade in every 5 years.

[Hames]

Hondas last well over 100k too. I said, which you never answered, what company makes a car intented to last longer than 100k? they all intend for the consumer to buy new/trade in every 5 years.

i dunno my dad's ford got over 500k on the original engine/transmission/rear end and it's like a 2005.

[Red88Si]

Hondas last well over 100k too. I said, which you never answered, what company makes a car intented to last longer than 100k? they all intend for the consumer to buy new/trade in every 5 years.

Your question was stupid. Every manufacturer merely intends for their vehicles to last as long as it can, with few exceptions (GM is real big on throwaway engines). Diesels all generally last very long times and owners who buy them know it, so they drive them a LOT. No difference in what will happen with this Mazda.

Idiot.

[CZero]

^ yeah, but no one is doing it here in the states.
We need some clean diesel vehicles !
The tdi jetta is already out. So are a few other VW vehicles and mercedes vehicles...
So they are already out here.

[Red88Si]

The tdi jetta is already out. So are a few other VW vehicles and mercedes vehicles...
So they are already out here.

Only some are "clean" diesel technology. I'm pretty sure the TDI is mostly standard turbodiesel tech. Mercedes' Bluetec is a clean diesel tech, but it isn't standard on all their diesel vehicles. And while standard diesel vehicles are significantly cleaner than 10 years ago, they still have a long way to come.

[CZero]

No the tdi is clean diesel. On the Toureg and jetta in the united states. So are the new audi's, like this A3:
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/audi_news/article_2567.shtml
VW has had clean diesel for awhile now and is a forerunner of diesel technology.
VW/audi has been winning in Lemans with it's diesel powered R10 also.
They even had a tdi jetta cup with clean diesels.
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_2575.shtml

They do not smoke at all, perfectly clean and over 55 mpg highway. I saw a mkv jetta tdi just yesterday

[NOPISTN]

Toyota Prius 48/45mpg (8 cent per mile/9 cents per mile)
Vw Polo Diesel 57/88mpg (9 cents per mile/ 5 cents per mile)

Diesels last longer and are made to be stronger engines that gas vehicles. I mean if the Germans can do why couldn't the Japanese. And with various new fuel sources coming onto the market from sources like recycled plastics and vegetables the price of diesel will go down.

Looks like no more rotary cars after 2015 if they are try to bump up the fleet average.:eek3dance

and, diesel + turbo upgrade = weeeeeeeee

[al]

diesel is fail as long as the price of Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel is kept artificially high. The future is methane or fuel cell technology, hybrids and diesel are merely band aids. Thanks to the goddamned hippies pushing hybrids, car companies had to put a hold on their fuel cell research so they wouldn't get flushed out of the market. Stupid Nissan and their seemingly nonexistent Altima Hybrid *grumble grumble*

[CZero]

Yeah diesel fuel is still priced high for no apparent reason, yet it still is cheaper to use than gasoline due to such higher MPG's.
I think a hybrid diesel car would be rather nice right now.