Camaro rated at 29 mpg, more than GM expected

[al]

The Camaro is a beacon of light in a vast fog of Chevrolet foreskin munchingness

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=CA&Date=20090316&Category=ANA05&ArtNo=903160270&Ref=AR&Profile=1135&MaxW=600&border=0&title=1

DETROIT -- The Chevrolet Camaro, which started production this morning in Canada, carries a best-in-class fuel economy rating of 29 mpg on the highway -- two miles per gallon higher than General Motors estimated.

Figures released by the EPA certify the base model V-6 Camaro at 18 mpg in the city and 29 on the highway, putting the Camaro ahead of its two rivals: the Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger. A version of the 2009 Mustang comes close at 26 mpg highway.

The high-performance Camaro SS with a 425-hp V-8 delivers 16 mpg city and 25 highway.

But it's that 29 mpg highway rating for the V-6 model that could broaden the Camaro's appeal among buyers who like the car but worry about $4-a-gallon gasoline.

The Camaro's 304-hp, 3.6-liter V-6 is the most advanced base engine ever used in a domestic muscle car. Its fuel-saving technologies feature direct injection and variable valve timing. The V-8 Camaro adds a cylinder cutoff system.

The Camaro's rivals, the Mustang and Challenger, don't offer those technologies.

• 2010 Chevrolet Camaro V-6 EPA rating:
Camaro LS and LT, automatic transmission: 18 city/29 highway
Camaro LS and LT, manual transmission: 17 city/29 highway

• Ford Mustang 2009 V-6:
Mustang, automatic transmission: 16 city/24 highway
Mustang, manual transmission: 17 city/26 highway

• Dodge Challenger V-6:
Challenger, automatic transmission: 17 city/25 highway

[Jeebus]

29 mpg for the v6, who the hell buys a v6 camaro?:facepalm:

[dantheman]

29 mpg for the v6, who the hell buys a v6 camaro?:facepalm:
the majority of people.

[HPorkchopD]

high school girls.

[al]

29 mpg for the v6, who the hell buys a v6 camaro?:facepalm:

In an awesome economy with high employment rates and everyone's 401k's gaining value, it might make sense to get the V8 model.

V6 LS ranges from $22,245 - $20,504.18
V6 1LT ranges from $23,880 - $22,000.20
V6 2LT ranges from $26,580 - $24,470.70
V8 1SS ranges from $30,245 - $27,824.18
V8 2SS ranges from $33,430 - $30,738.45

It's an $8,000 jump from the cheapest V6 to the cheapest V8. You tell me which model will outsell the other 15:1

[Jeebus]

the majority of people.

rhetorical question

[Jeebus]

In an awesome economy with high employment rates and everyone's 401k's gaining value, it might make sense to get the V8 model.

V6 LS ranges from $22,245 - $20,504.18
V6 1LT ranges from $23,880 - $22,000.20
V6 2LT ranges from $26,580 - $24,470.70
V8 1SS ranges from $30,245 - $27,824.18
V8 2SS ranges from $33,430 - $30,738.45

It's an $8,000 jump from the cheapest V6 to the cheapest V8. You tell me which model will outsell the other 15:1

well if the economy is hurting you and you are currently unemployed the new camaro is probably the last thing you should be looking at even if the cheapest v6 were 8k cheaper then it currently is listed as.

WHat I meant to say is, if I were in the market for a camaro the 2mpg difference between the v6 and v8 isn't gonna be a big selling point to me. It's usually the case in all vehicles that come in 6 and 8 cyl, for the 2-3 extra mpg the 6 gets, I rather just go for the 8. Take the GS300/400 for example.

[dantheman]

rhetorical question
your mom is a rhetorical question

[al]

well if the economy is hurting you and you are currently unemployed the new camaro is probably the last thing you should be looking at even if the cheapest v6 were 8k cheaper then it currently is listed as.

$22k is cheap for any new car. You need transportation to get to job interviews, right?

You're in a different demographic, though. I think that $8k difference in sticker price will dissuade the masses

[Jeebus]

$22k is cheap for any new car. You need transportation to get to job interviews, right?


LOL Wtf al. Again if you have no job and are in need of one, going to an interview in a brand new camaro isn't gona increase your chances of getting hired. I just picked up a civic for $1400 this weekend, I would suggest for those out of a job to look for something along those lines to drive to their interviews.

[Jeebus]

You're in a different demographic, though. I think that $8k difference in sticker price will dissuade the masses
Gotcha, I was reffering to people on here or car enthusiast like yourself. Would you really be persuaded to get the v6 over the v8 for the whole 2 extra mpg? Probably not but yes 8-10k price difference will push alot of people away from the 8 but if I were in the market for a new 6 cylinder auto I probably wouldnt be at a chevy dealership anyways. Again is was a rhetorical question.

[al]

LOL Wtf al. Again if you have no job and are in need of one, going to an interview in a brand new camaro isn't gona increase your chances of getting hired. I just picked up a civic for $1400 this weekend, I would suggest for those out of a job to look for something along those lines to drive to their interviews.

Dude, I mentioned the economic climate. I wasn't focusing on broke ass people who didn't have jobs, let's not get hung up on it.

Another scenario: A guy goes to the dealership wanting a Camaro. His wife sees the V6 is $8k less ... possibly $15k less from the V8 markup. He's pissed, but he's gonna end up with the V6.

[Jeebus]

That guy should reach into his wife's purse and get his balls back in order to walk out the dealership with a v8.

[al]

That guy should reach into his wife's purse and get his balls back in order to walk out the dealership with a v8.

:rofl: he reaches in the purse ..... and finds the wad of $8k that he saved from not buying the V8 ....... and from switching to Geico

http://quotesmarter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/geico_eyeball_money2.jpg

[d3xt3r]

29 mpg for the v6, who the hell buys a v6 camaro?:facepalm:

THe same people that buy v6 mustangs. A lot of people. :facepalm:

[White94CX]

:rofl: he reaches in the purse ..... and finds the wad of $8k that he saved from not buying the V8 ....... and from switching to Geico

http://quotesmarter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/geico_eyeball_money2.jpg

LOL

[rene]

lol foreskin?

[Happy]

29 mpg for the v6, who the hell buys a v6 camaro?:facepalm:

People that want a 304hp car with 29 mpg highway :dunno:

[Happy]

on a side note I went to Chevy's website. If I were to build my own camaro this is what it would be:

And if Chevy is still around in 2010 I will be buying this exact car


http://www.hi-upload.com/upload/uploaded11/HappyCamaro.JPG

[Replica]

I'd never spend $22k on a Camaro.

[Jeebus]

That 38k camaro Happy built is bad ass but I'd spend my money on a 3 series instead.

[Replica]

That 38k camaro Happy built is bad ass but I'd spend my money on 335ci before that lol.
Yeah, it's nice but not $37k+ nice. Damn. I'd pay close to 20k maybe. I'd be looking at 135i's and Sti's (which are cheaper).

[al]

Happy's SS is gonna be fucking sick! But I will be ahead with even a used BMW M5. New cars for the lose.

[Jeebus]

The ci was over 40 so I changed it to 3 series. But yea, the 1 series has really grown on me after seeing it in person so I'd opt for that as well. Not to mention due to the depreciation of new cars the values fall below shit in just just a couple of years. I much rather buy used, I dont know if Ill ever have it in me to buy a brand new car off a lot.

[Happy]

That 38k camaro Happy built is bad ass but I'd spend my money on a 3 series instead.

I'm guessing you are talking cpo, because a 335ic starts at 42,2k with no options.

As a bmw fan myself the 335i is one of my absolute fav cars ever. But, the gap is closing between the performance build quality and value of certain cars. They are definately not there yet but if you compare apples to apples; ie new car for new car the camaro stacks up really nice, (along with the G8 GXP) inho.

edit: sorry didn't account for the ninja edit, on original quote.

[Happy]

Happy's SS is gonna be fucking sick! But I will be ahead with even a used BMW M5. New cars for the lose.

very ture statement there, I figure by 2010 the M5 market will be around 38-42 depending on miles etc. But, after owning an E46 M3 and E46 323CI out of warranty the thought of BMW maintenance always makes my skin crawl, especially on a ///M car.

[al]

very ture statement there, I figure by 2010 the M5 market will be around 38-42 dependend on miles etc. But, after owning an E46 out of warranty the thought of BMW maintenance always makes my skin crawl.

God. So true. But if maintenance cost isn't your thing, why a Chevy?

[Jeebus]

Never owned a bmw but the stories about maint. were enough to keep me away from them for now back when I was looking for a car. I have been wanting an e46 m for some time now:(.

[Happy]

God. So true. But if maintenance cost isn't your thing, why a Chevy?

I plan on new warranty will come with the car. Plus I really think chevy has made huge quality and realiability improvements.

[inferno14u]

I think for the overall performance, the V6 is a steal. You can't get 300hp cheaper new and you won't get 300hp with better mileage either. Its hard to fathom as the majority of us that post in here are enthusiasts, but the extra mpg and cheaper cost are far more important to the average consumer.

[Drift Gangsta]

sweet mpg

cant wait to see how it compares to the 2.0l turbo genesis

[dantheman]

sweet mpg

cant wait to see how it compares to the 2.0l turbo genesis
rapes it.

[Drift Gangsta]

we'll see

[Replica]

rapes it.
Hate to say, I'd still take the Phil Collins mobile.

[MoToHeAd125]

29 mpg for the v6, who the hell buys a v6 camaro?:facepalm:

Its up too 300 hp....aint bad..but i would still get the V8

[dantheman]

Hate to say, I'd still take the Phil Collins mobile.
between the two ill take the Camaro. it looks better IMO and at 29mpg probably gets better mileage.

[DC]

Happy's SS is gonna be fucking sick! But I will be ahead with even a used BMW M5. New cars for the lose.

Used cars ftl, especially ones that are out of warranty.

[Replica]

Used cars ftl, especially ones that are out of warranty.
Uh, how did you come to that idea? The amount of repairs I can afford (if I even need to) with the money I save from NOT paying the first 3 years or so of depreciation on a new car will more than make my money back.

[dantheman]

Uh, how did you come to that idea? The amount of repairs I can afford (if I even need to) with the money I save from NOT paying the first 3 years or so of depreciation on a new car will more than make my money back.
yessir.

[CK9887]

Gotcha, I was reffering to people on here or car enthusiast like yourself. Would you really be persuaded to get the v6 over the v8 for the whole 2 extra mpg? Probably not but yes 8-10k price difference will push alot of people away from the 8 but if I were in the market for a new 6 cylinder auto I probably wouldnt be at a chevy dealership anyways. Again is was a rhetorical question.

You know the 6cyl camaro is over 300hp?

Where else can you get that kind of power for around $22k...
Around the same HP as an STi or 335 for $15k less

[Drift Gangsta]

You know the 6cyl camaro is over 300hp?

Where else can you get that kind of power for around $22k...
Around the same HP as an STi or 335 for $15k less
yeah but the car also weights 4000lbs (or so i heard). STI's dont weight nearly as much

power to weight ratio :nono:

[CK9887]

Not to mention the SS...426HP for $31k.

I think most of the people on this site would cream their pants if an import manufacture offered that kind of bang for the buck.

But I guess most people just hate Chevy too much to admit it.

[inferno14u]

Not to mention the SS...426HP for $31k.

I think most of the people on this site would cream their pants if an import manufacture offered that kind of bang for the buck.

But I guess most people just hate Chevy too much to admit it.

Chevy dropping a LSX in any car isn't impressive, but this direct injected v6 making 300hp and still being in a car under 25k is extremely impressive.

[Replica]

You know the 6cyl camaro is over 300hp?

Where else can you get that kind of power for around $22k...
Around the same HP as an STi or 335 for $15k less
Power doesn't make it fast. Not only is an Sti much faster, it will likely handle much better, have higher build quality and retain some resale value.

There's a Ford for sale RIGHT NOW that makes 310hp and 365 torque for less than $30,000. Does that mean it's fast? Lol, I'm not going to say what it is so I can make my point. I bet the price on this mystery Ford could be talked down to the low 20's.

[Red88Si]

It costs 2/3 of what the STi costs, and gets better gas mileage. Not everyone requires a pure performance car. Now that I've been mulling it over, a V6 stick shift Camaro might just be an awesome daily driver for me. Now start selling them already so I can make you some money, GM!

Just kidding. Nobody will give me a loan.

[al]

Just kidding. Nobody will give me a loan.

You'll be surprised. HFCU approved me for 3.5% for 3 years or 4.75% for 5 years (on a used car!) three weeks ago.

[Texas Tacoma]

For u folks that think this car is not gonna sell..

Your sadly mistaken..

This is GM's hail mary car, Transformers movie marketing, Camaro branded name, 300hp V6, it kills its competition (not sti, more of mustang or challenger. Whoever brought up the idea against sti is... u can't compare the two, two totally different cars. Rally/Domestic Muscle). If these points don't sell this car, GM is seriously fucked.

[i-vtec195]

You know the 6cyl camaro is over 300hp?

Where else can you get that kind of power for around $22k...
Around the same HP as an STi or 335 for $15k less

and? buy a wrx for 24k. same 0-60 as the sti, and only .3 slower in the 1/4, and handling that'll blow the camaro out of the water. 4.7 second 0-60 and 13.5@101 1/4 starting at $24k...

[FbodTrek]

Oh it will sell, that's not really up for debate.
I like how the new models have picked up nearly 100hp over the previous gen base model.

[FbodTrek]

and? buy a wrx for 24k. same 0-60 as the sti, and only .3 slower in the 1/4, and handling that'll blow the camaro out of the water. 4.7 second 0-60 and 13.5@101 1/4 starting at $24k...

The only problem is that the current WRX looks like a pile of vomit and girls will laugh at you. The Camaro guarantees some inbred redneck pussy and alot more attention and status (to everyone but you). Sure, it's JUST a Camaro, but with a body like that- it's like having to decide between a hot blonde who's dumb as dirt, and a busted ass burnette from MENSA.

[rene]

i wouldn't mind having that package that happy put together.

that would be a fun car....i'd be sliding around all over the place!

[Mycah Leonhart]

2 Key Questions for me to think about it.

#1. How much does it weigh?
#2. Does it have IRS?!

Low power out the box can be fixed, Dumbo ass Leaf Springs and Live Axles can not.

[i-vtec195]

The only problem is that the current WRX looks like a pile of vomit and girls will laugh at you. The Camaro guarantees some inbred redneck pussy and alot more attention and status (to everyone but you). Sure, it's JUST a Camaro, but with a body like that- it's like having to decide between a hot blonde who's dumb as dirt, and a busted ass burnette from MENSA.

well, i guess the girls i know just lie to flatter me, then. :dunno:

[Replica]

and? buy a wrx for 24k. same 0-60 as the sti, and only .3 slower in the 1/4, and handling that'll blow the camaro out of the water. 4.7 second 0-60 and 13.5@101 1/4 starting at $24k...
The new WRX's love to blow up.

[i-vtec195]

The new WRX's love to blow up.

how so? i drive mine pretty hard, and haven't heard of any serious issues with the 09's...

[jomomma]

29 mpg for the v6, who the hell buys a v6 camaro?:facepalm:

lol that v6 pwnz ur 1uz.

[Replica]

how so? i drive mine pretty hard, and haven't heard of any serious issues with the 09's...
Oh, was it the 08's that were having engine failures?

[dantheman]

2 Key Questions for me to think about it.

#1. How much does it weigh?
#2. Does it have IRS?!

Low power out the box can be fixed, Dumbo ass Leaf Springs and Live Axles can not.
the SS is 3930. i would imagine the V6 is a little less.

and it DOES have IRS.

[Replica]

the SS is 3930. i would imagine the V6 is a little less.

and it DOES have IRS.
omg 3900+ is way too heavy.

[i-vtec195]

Oh, was it the 08's that were having engine failures?

hmm. well, the 08-09 motor is actually damn near a carbon copy of the legacy 2.5gt motor, which actually has a reputation for being fairly stout. while i'm sure it's happened, i haven't seen or heard of many blowing up with mild modification. almost every one i've heard of cratering came as a result of people taking it upon themselves to reflash the motor on their own, which is pretty easy to do. i've had 45345 offers from people to reflash mine, which i think i'll respectfully decline.

i'm shooting for about 300-350whp long term. especially when it can easily be done with kits like this:

http://rallitek.com/st3de85.html

got torque? damn straight. :cool:

[Agent S14]

V8 or give me death!!

[Texas Tacoma]

Sti's rock and all but fuck they are ugly

[i-vtec195]

HlqjChw9H3A

sti vs shelby gt. sti pwns 44 of 46 performance categories. the children who think this v6 will even compete are dreaming.

[meangreen94z]

I'd never spend $22k on a Camaro.

didnt you pay like $26k for a civic?

[Texas Tacoma]

We competing for times or for your neighbors cousins dirty blond uncle step daughter?

I think comparing the two cars is a bit unfair...

[Replica]

didnt you pay like $26k for a civic?
$21,000 for a new 2007 Si Sedan. I'd likely still take it over a new V6 Camaro, and so will many other consumers. Just wait and see. There's a reason the Camaro failed the first time around.

[Texas Tacoma]

$21,000 for a new 2007 Si Sedan. I'd likely still take it over a new V6 Camaro, and so will many other consumers. Just wait and see. There's a reason the Camaro failed the first time around.
Errrrr. I would take the Camaro over an Civic anyday.

And when u say first time around, what r u talking about? 60, 70, 80, 90?

[Replica]

Errrrr. I would take the Camaro over an Civic anyday.

And when u say first time around, what r u talking about? 60, 70, 80, 90?
4th generation.

We're going to end up going down a road where we compare Civics to Camaros but never disclose what criteria is being judged between them. All I can say is I won't spend $22,000 on a V6 Camaro after having been in 4th gen Camaros and in newer Chevy products in the last year or so. I just can't see it being much better. True, NO ONE can have a valid opinion at this point, as no one in this thread has even sat in one.

I should also say that I don't think many cars are worth $20,000, not even the Civic I bought two years ago (that was sold quickly after, so I really didn't pay anywhere near $21k for it).

If Camaro pricing settles about where previous Camaro pricing did, I won't find the car as revolting. A V6 should be about $16,000 (if that) and the V8 models a tick over $20,000.

[dantheman]

4th generation.

We're going to end up going down a road where we compare Civics to Camaros but never disclose what criteria is being judged between them. All I can say is I won't spend $22,000 on a V6 Camaro after having been in 4th gen Camaros and in newer Chevy products in the last year or so. I just can't see it being much better. True, NO ONE can have a valid opinion at this point, as no one in this thread has even sat in one.

I should also say that I don't think many cars are worth $20,000, not even the Civic I bought two years ago (that was sold quickly after, so I really didn't pay anywhere near $21k for it).

If Camaro pricing settles about where previous Camaro pricing did, I won't find the car as revolting. A V6 should be about $16,000 (if that) and the V8 models a tick over $20,000.
value of the dollar is the main reason for that.

cant do as much with a dollar as you could 8 years ago. the BASE GT mustang is 27k dollars. it used to be 19k back in teh late 90's an the V6's started at like 13-14k. now a base V6 is 20k and a base V8 is 27k.

economy in the shitter = more money required to do things.

[Replica]

value of the dollar is the main reason for that.

cant do as much with a dollar as you could 8 years ago. the BASE GT mustang is 27k dollars. it used to be 19k back in teh late 90's an the V6's started at like 13-14k. now a base V6 is 20k and a base V8 is 27k.

economy in the shitter = more money required to do things.
I remember the 1999-2000 Civic SI's being like $18k+ sticker. Now the sticker in 07 was $21,800.

Any reason the new SS is easily $10,000 more than the old one?

[dantheman]

I remember the 1999-2000 Civic SI's being like $18k+ sticker. Now the sticker in 07 was $21,800.

Any reason the new SS is easily $10,000 more than the old one?
its not.

the Z28 base model no options stripped package camaro was 22800 , and the SS (which had all options,) was in the high high 20's. New SS starting at 32000 and being completely decked out with all options for 39000 is about right.

camaro was always more expensive than the mustang because you got alot more for it.

[Replica]

its not.

the Z28 base model no options stripped package camaro was 22800 , and the SS (which had all options,) was in the high high 20's. New SS starting at 32000 and being completely decked out with all options for 39000 is about right.

camaro was always more expensive than the mustang because you got alot more for it.
I keep thinking of prices after negotiating on the F-body. My bad. I had a roomate buy a brand new TA the last year they made them, with pretty much every option available and it was $24,000 OTD.

Also, I just realized the $37,000 number here is with an assload of options. On the Chevy site, the "base" SS is just at $30,000 and the SS2 trim is $34,000.

My bad. :facepalm: Hopefully after the initial dealer hype people will get these new f-bodies (if they're called that anymore) for a pretty good price.

[dantheman]

I keep thinking of prices after negotiating on the F-body. My bad. I had a roomate buy a brand new TA the last year they made them, with pretty much every option available and it was $24,000 OTD.

Also, I just realized the $37,000 number here is with an assload of options. On the Chevy site, the "base" SS is just at $30,000 and the SS2 trim is $34,000.

My bad. :facepalm: Hopefully after the initial dealer hype people will get these new f-bodies (if they're called that anymore) for a pretty good price.
oh yea negotiating you could get a stripper Z28 for 19ish without TTops and it was light at like 3200lbs and would run 12's easy.beasts

yea they are 5th gen Fbodys now.

in a couple years you will be able to negotiate them down.

[Texas Tacoma]

Domestic msrp are f'ed up, no arguement there.

However I'm still about the Camaro > Civic Si.

[Replica]

Domestic msrp are f'ed up, no arguement there.

However I'm still about the Camaro > Civic Si.
My point was domestic MSRP's are retarded. :)

[Agent S14]

didnt you pay like $26k for a civic?

but he has VTEC


correction I-VTEC

[Replica]

but he has VTEC


correction I-VTEC
I don't own the car anymore. I haz no vtecks.

[i-vtec195]

but he has VTEC


correction I-VTEC


wouldn't pay $26k, but itb's and a tune really wake those engines up...

[Agent S14]

wouldn't pay $26k, but itb's and a tune really wake those engines up...

id spend the money for a 35K for a RWD 2 seater VTEC car if i could.

[Replica]

Why are we throwing around the number $26k? It isn't the price of a Civic or a Camaro.

[FbodTrek]

It amuses me how people can be so detached from the reality that is consumer interest. The Camaro has ALWAYS been a Success. There are more pony cars (Mustangs and F-body's are still Pony cars to me) on the road than just about anything else. They weren't purchased for fuel economy (LOL, who the fuck looks at fuel economy first?). For the people who are gonna say there are more Civics on the road than any other car, I laugh at you. Sure, there's a ton of those economy, non-performance oriented, grocery getters on the road, but they were bought for JUST those purposes. People buy pony cars as a symbol. They WILL sell the shit out of them, far more sales than any "hip" tuner car that will be on the market at the time...so maybe GM and Ford know what true Americans want? Something cheaply made, lots of torque, massive sex appeal, and something you get what you pay for. Who gives a shit if other cars have better trim or finish? You think a bitch can tell an Acura TL from a Hyundai Sonata? If someone sees that Camaro on the road, they are gonna be hanging on its nuts, plain and simple. Lots of cars out perform it- that's not even a point. The car is simply Iconic, and that's what will move sales...that and the fact that the Japanese can rarely make a "tough" looking car (the Subaru looks like shit...quit lying to yourselves...seriously...)

[Red88Si]

You'll be surprised. HFCU approved me for 3.5% for 3 years or 4.75% for 5 years (on a used car!) three weeks ago.

I need a better job before I can even afford a car note. Know anyone hiring?

[i-vtec195]

You think a bitch can tell an Acura TL from a Hyundai Sonata?

yes. they can. most of the girls i know would give a shit about a a mustang or camaro.

[FbodTrek]

You really are quite delusional aren't you? :p

[i-vtec195]

think i know too many asian girls... :dunno:

[FbodTrek]

think i know too many asian girls... :dunno:

:Goofy:
That's prolly it then, they tend to look for that Acura, BMW, MB or Lexus Logo, and they know what those logo's look like.
Ask them what model, then they won't have a clue hehe

[Replica]

IIf someone sees that Camaro on the road, they are gonna be hanging on its nuts, plain and simple. Lots of cars out perform it- that's not even a point. The car is simply Iconic, and that's what will move sales...that and the fact that the Japanese can rarely make a "tough" looking car (the Subaru looks like shit..quit lying to yourselves...seriously...)
I don't care if other people like what I'm driving.

When it comes to fit and finish and nice interiors, when I'm spending what I think is a premium on a car, I expect it to be pretty nice inside. If I wanted something cheaply made, with tons of torque and made lots of noise I'd buy a cheap foxbody or something.

I've gotten into these same debates before, and gotten similar responses as yours. The general message in your response is that I should expect LESS for more money and if I don't settle then I'm a fag. :facepalm:

[dantheman]

I don't care if other people like what I'm driving.

When it comes to fit and finish and nice interiors, when I'm spending what I think is a premium on a car, I expect it to be pretty nice inside. If I wanted something cheaply made, with tons of torque and made lots of noise I'd buy a cheap foxbody or something.

I've gotten into these same debates before, and gotten similar responses as yours. The general message in your response is that I should expect LESS for more money and if I don't settle then I'm a fag. :facepalm:
again you arent the average consumer.

if people didnt care what people thought of them while they drove we wouldnt have 26in rims.

[Replica]

again you arent the average consumer.

if people didnt care what people thought of them while they drove we wouldnt have 26in rims.
I'm aware of that and i don't speak for the whole of the buying public. This message of expecting too much makes me want to vomit though.

[FbodTrek]

I don't care if other people like what I'm driving.

When it comes to fit and finish and nice interiors, when I'm spending what I think is a premium on a car, I expect it to be pretty nice inside. If I wanted something cheaply made, with tons of torque and made lots of noise I'd buy a cheap foxbody or something.

I've gotten into these same debates before, and gotten similar responses as yours. The general message in your response is that I should expect LESS for more money and if I don't settle then I'm a fag. :facepalm:

I'm talking merely from the perspective of consumer America. It's not really a debate for me, mainly because sales numbers don't lie. I dunno man, interior fit isn't a huge deal to me on different makes of car (HONESTLY, when's the last time you drove a 2009 Chevrolet product that wasn't an economy car?). Interior is prolly the very last thing I look at when considering a car. If spending money, might as well be flashy about it and get absurd performance per dollar.

[i-vtec195]

sales numbers don't lie. that's why the big 3 are in deep shit.

[Happy]

I'm talking merely from the perspective of consumer America. It's not really a debate for me, mainly because sales numbers don't lie. I dunno man, interior fit isn't a huge deal to me on different makes of car (HONESTLY, when's the last time you drove a 2009 Chevrolet product that wasn't an economy car?). Interior is prolly the very last thing I look at when considering a car. If spending money, might as well be flashy about it and get absurd performance per dollar.

i am on the complete other side of the fence...Interior is the first priority for me. That is where I will spend the majority of the time, and its GM's finally making steps in the right direction that has me putting them on my list of cars to consider.

[Vincent]

It amuses me how people can be so detached from the reality that is consumer interest. The Camaro has ALWAYS been a Success. There are more pony cars (Mustangs and F-body's are still Pony cars to me) on the road than just about anything else. They weren't purchased for fuel economy (LOL, who the fuck looks at fuel economy first?). For the people who are gonna say there are more Civics on the road than any other car, I laugh at you. Sure, there's a ton of those economy, non-performance oriented, grocery getters on the road, but they were bought for JUST those purposes. People buy pony cars as a symbol. They WILL sell the shit out of them, far more sales than any "hip" tuner car that will be on the market at the time...so maybe GM and Ford know what true Americans want? Something cheaply made, lots of torque, massive sex appeal, and something you get what you pay for. Who gives a shit if other cars have better trim or finish? You think a bitch can tell an Acura TL from a Hyundai Sonata? If someone sees that Camaro on the road, they are gonna be hanging on its nuts, plain and simple. Lots of cars out perform it- that's not even a point. The car is simply Iconic, and that's what will move sales...that and the fact that the Japanese can rarely make a "tough" looking car (the Subaru looks like shit...quit lying to yourselves...seriously...)

If it was always a success, GM wouldn't have stopped production of it. It wasn't selling compared to the Mustang.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0409phr_2007_chevrolet_camaro/index.html

People who remember $4 gas less than a year ago will be looking at fuel economy closely. But, I don't think the Camaro isn't anything to complain about. The V6 Mustang is pathetic with 16mpg city EPA and a gutless engine.

The problem is that the Camaro didn't sell well enough back in 2002 going up against the Mustang. Now, it has to compete against the 370z, Genesis Coupe, the Challenger, WRX, etc. as well.

Who gives a fuck about a bitch when choosing cars?

[i-vtec195]

Who gives a fuck about a bitch when choosing cars?

apparently, the guy who likes to attract toothless ones who love nascar.

[CK9887]

apparently, the guy who likes to attract toothless ones who love nascar.


Are you serious? You need to think a little bit outside your network.
Back when my brother had a WRX, most girls said it looked like an econo box...
For instance, we as car enthusiast stare in awe when we see an STi but the matter of the fact is 90% of the people on the road have no idea what an STi is or who its made by and the car screams "boy racer" or "ricer".

I got more looks in my Corvette than you could imagine. Because it's a name Americans know. Mustang and Camaro are American icons. Sure, when you pull up to Starbucks on Westheimer at 1am in your WRX you might get some looks but thats because of the people your associating with.

[daneo]

what he said.

[i-vtec195]

Are you serious? You need to think a little bit outside your network.
Back when my brother had a WRX, most girls said it looked like an econo box...
For instance, we as car enthusiast stare in awe when we see an STi but the matter of the fact is 90% of the people on the road have no idea what an STi is or who its made by and the car screams "boy racer" or "ricer".

I got more looks in my Corvette than you could imagine. Because it's a name Americans know. Mustang and Camaro are American icons. Sure, when you pull up to Starbucks on Westheimer at 1am in your WRX you might get some looks but thats because of the people your associating with.

i was giving fbodtrek shit more than anything. and my "network" started with fox bodies and late 60s model camaro's. cool cars, but i guess that's just not my network anymore. and while my wrx may not be as stylish as your corvette, it got a fair amount of attention when i went out to cafe 101 last night, despite sitting next to a near mint r34, and an r33. both of which catch a few more stares in my network than your american icons.

:o

[jomomma]

i was giving fbodtrek shit more than anything. and my "network" started with fox bodies and late 60s model camaro's. cool cars, but i guess that's just not my network anymore. and while my wrx may not be as stylish as your corvette, it got a fair amount of attention when i went out to cafe 101 last night, despite sitting next to a near mint r34, and an r33. both of which catch a few more stares in my network than your american icons.

:o

wow dude, wow. i bet the majority of people in america would rather have a yenko than any r3x.

[i-vtec195]

wow dude, wow. i bet the majority of people in america would rather have a yenko than any r3x.

of course they would. i never said it was close to being the center of attention. it helps to be literate.

[jomomma]

of course they would. i never said it was close to being the center of attention. it helps to be literate.

no dude, you need to be literate and open minded instead of sayin that rice ownz camaro over and over and over a(fucking)gain.

[i-vtec195]

no dude, you need to be literate and open minded instead of sayin that rice ownz camaro over and over and over a(fucking)gain.

wow, you must be stupid. i said nothing more than whoever even dropped the v6 camaro being in sti territory is a moron(didn't even care to track down who got that ball rolling, just added my fact based .02, which turned into an opinion based popularity contest). and that the bang for the buck is also there. then, people start talking out of their ass about how the motor is unreliable, or can't get over the fact that they think the car is ugly(over and over a fucking gain), and use that to establish their all knowing value for the car. if you were observant, instead of talking out of your ass, you'd realize that i've NEVER questioned the impressive performance numbers out of a chevy lsx motors as long as i've been associated with this site, nor will you find it in search. i have mentioned that i've disliked the driving experience on occasions, and elaborated on it when i did. so, get bent. :thumb:

[CK9887]

wow, you must be stupid. i said nothing more than whoever even dropped the v6 camaro being in sti territory is a moron(didn't even care to track down who got that ball rolling, just added my fact based .02, which turned into an opinion based popularity contest). and that the bang for the buck is also there. then, people start talking out of their ass about how the motor is unreliable, or can't get over the fact that they think the car is ugly(over and over a fucking gain), and use that to establish their all knowing value for the car. if you were observant, instead of talking out of your ass, you'd realize that i've NEVER questioned the impressive performance numbers out of a chevy lsx motors as long as i've been associated with this site, nor will you find it in search. i have mentioned that i've disliked the driving experience on occasions, and elaborated on it when i did. so, get bent. :thumb:

I was the one who compared the STi to the Camaro. This was to simply show how impressive the HP numbers are for the money. They are two totally different vehicles. But the statement was to simply prove the fact that 300hp for $22k is very impressive.

[i-vtec195]

But the statement was to simply prove the fact that 300hp for $22k is very impressive.

i can agree with that.

[FbodTrek]

i was giving fbodtrek shit more than anything. and my "network" started with fox bodies and late 60s model camaro's. cool cars, but i guess that's just not my network anymore. and while my wrx may not be as stylish as your corvette, it got a fair amount of attention when i went out to cafe 101 last night, despite sitting next to a near mint r34, and an r33. both of which catch a few more stares in my network than your american icons.

:o

I don't need women to look at me, I'm married- the wife has her teeth luckily :P

Fact is, your network is car people... that's not mainstream, and is a sample of a VERY small, very specific group of people. When I talk about "Bitches" I sorta mean Americans in general, not women necessarily (don't take it out of context).

And FFS, don't pick on NASCAR, it makes more money than all other American ball games combined (cause playing with balls is manly!). :Goofy: