Why front bias cars suck!!! [Archive]

CovertPenguin

11-11-2003, 08:01 PM

The truth is you want an exact 50/50 weight distribution. Why? It promotes perfectly neutral steering, which is what we all want around the turns. The fact is, it isn't always achievable, so you come as close as possible and use suspension geometry to fix it. :)

So why use a mid engine setup if it causes rear weight bias, when you could more easily set up a FR platform that is neutral? The polar moment of inertia... Take a look at a seesaw. You have a kid sitting at one end, and another kid that is the exact same weight sitting at the opposite end. What happens when one kid jumps? The end of the seesaw goes flying into the air, moving the kid quite a few feet up, and the other kid quite a few feet down. This is like a FR setup. :)

Take that same seesaw, and have the kids sit just past the fulcrum (middle). When one kid moves, they don't go nearly as far. So, in summation, using a MR setup makes weight transfer faster, and less unsettling, almost always resulting in increased performance while combining braking and turning or accelerating and turning. All of which MANY mid engine cars already have. Summation, 50/50 is still a nice way to go if your a FR car, but once you already have the engine in the back the polar movement and physics in general is rooting for you. :)

Another anaolgy of polar movement: The low polar moment means the car rotates easier. a car with a high polar moment is like a 10 lb dumbell. It takes a lot of effort to rotate a dumbell back and forth. A low polar moment car is like a 10 lb bowling ball - it weighs the same, but it's easier to rotate. So when you move weight to the rear to get closer to 50/50 on a front engine car (think Corvettes with the tranny out back), you mostly just get the braking and accelerating benefits...a car with low polar moment and good weight distribution (NSX or MR2) will still go through the corner faster. Thus your Civic 3 bus lengths behind. :thumb:

CovertPenguin

11-11-2003, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by KnownAsMike
MR2 is nice yes but that is quite a biased statement you make there.:eek3:

or you could buy one of them Feiro's... hehe.. even then, they aren't too great of a car at all... their engines really suck stock too... unless you want to invest some nice money into them, drop a northstar V8 or something..

TopSeller

11-11-2003, 08:18 PM

covert wats the result in performance via itr?

can u explain that

CovertPenguin

11-11-2003, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by TopSeller
covert wats the result in performance via itr?

can u explain that

itr? integra?

Z33WOLF

11-11-2003, 08:27 PM

ITR=Integra Type R

CovertPenguin

11-11-2003, 08:35 PM

all i have to say.. its wrong wheel drive... just like this thing

http://fun.from.hell.pl/2003-01-09/malec.wmv

just like this poser hehe

Z33WOLF

11-11-2003, 08:38 PM

Say...where's the video of the MR2 launching into a parked jetta:p

Tiger Styles

11-11-2003, 08:39 PM

CovertPenguin

11-11-2003, 08:43 PM

"The SCCA uses FWD racers.
Then again it depends on what you consider a 'Real' race car"

um.. woopie.. people go out there in their 1975 beat up ford trucks... just because it competes in the SCCA makes it a race car...

CovertPenguin

11-11-2003, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by KnownAsMike
Say...where's the video of the MR2 launching into a parked jetta:p

he was NA.. he had problems... :roflmao: like the driver..

OH NOEZ

11-11-2003, 09:05 PM

Don't Corvettes have a weight distribution that is close to 50/50?

axio

11-11-2003, 09:12 PM

I guess Kenny Tran better give it up since his Civic will never be a race car :(

CovertPenguin

11-11-2003, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by 98tegls
Don't Corvettes have a weight distribution that is close to 50/50?

yes

vuu-SW21

11-11-2003, 09:16 PM

I can understand saying the rx-7 is mid-engine, but the s2K is not if I am correct because then the 240sx, the 300zx, the corolla ae86, the list goes on are mid-engine..... the only reason people consider the rx-7 as mid-engine is because the engine sits behind the front wheel a bit. I do not believe that is true of the other FR cars.

TopSeller

11-11-2003, 10:04 PM

so basically if u have a front wheel drive vehicle u have no chance or slim of makin it track ready or competitive

TopSeller

11-11-2003, 10:09 PM

damn that video is jsut hillarious "classic"

CovertPenguin

11-11-2003, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by TopSeller
so basically if u have a front wheel drive vehicle u have no chance or slim of makin it track ready or competitive

anything can be compeitive with money involved.. alot has to do with other factors as well...

Mobil1

11-11-2003, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by TopSeller
so basically if u have a front wheel drive vehicle u have no chance or slim of makin it track ready or competitive not against comperably equipped RWD and AWD vehicles, im not knocking FWD vehicles, but they are simply at a disadvantage when in competition with RWD cars.

jatcesar

11-12-2003, 02:05 AM

funny my 240 is slow as fuk compared to my se-r,also mr2's are just plain ougly stock

Black J32a

11-12-2003, 11:47 AM

what a beaten to death subject...we can't change physics...end of story.

Replica

11-12-2003, 11:56 AM

I guess this is another "MR2's are god's gift to cars" post.

Dorian

11-12-2003, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by jatcesar
funny my 240 is slow as fuk compared to my se-r :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: What... in a straight line... your SE-R is still just a Sentra.

axio

11-12-2003, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by Replica
I guess this is another "MR2's are god's gift to cars" post.
Skyline? They aren't that expensive over seas. They are like Civics in Australia.

azinwood

11-12-2003, 12:44 PM

CovertPenguin what type of competitive racing do you do with your car or do you just do competitive talking?

Replica

11-12-2003, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
just because it competes in the SCCA makes it a race car...
yes!

phast

11-12-2003, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by S14 Wannabe
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: What... in a straight line... your SE-R is still just a Sentra.

Trust me....it's no ordinary Sentra.:eek3:

Replica

11-12-2003, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by S14 Wannabe
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: What... in a straight line... your SE-R is still just a Sentra.
Wow, amazing logic. And a S14 is still a 240

Dorian

11-12-2003, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by Replica
Wow, amazing logic. And a S14 is still a 240 um... yeah... phast already explained that to me... you don't see CART or F1 using FWD. I have respect for both but plainly RWD is still dominant.

axio

11-12-2003, 03:36 PM

:roflmao:

You don't see CART/F1 cars out on the street either

omg hay guyZ!

11-12-2003, 03:39 PM

this subject is hilarious. why post something like this when your outlook is completely biased and closed minded.

TopSeller

11-12-2003, 03:56 PM

so say u dont have a shit load of money to spend to get a really nice rwd car

wats a cheap not dirt cheap rwd car?

Dorian

11-12-2003, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by TopSeller
wats a cheap not dirt cheap rwd car? :confused: AE86

axio

11-12-2003, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by S14 Wannabe
:confused: AE86
You do realize that, sure, getting the AE86 is cheap. But BUILDING it to be fast/drift worthy/etc is expensive.

Mobil1

11-12-2003, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by tstiger
You do realize that, sure, getting the AE86 is cheap. But BUILDING it to be fast/drift worthy/etc is expensive. whole project can be done for less than 10g if you spend your money right.:)

few months back Super Street ran an article ona guy who built an AE86 for like 6 grand total and it was pretty sweet.:thumb:

Dorian

11-12-2003, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by tstiger
You do realize that, sure, getting the AE86 is cheap. But BUILDING it to be fast/drift worthy/etc is expensive. He asked a simple question I answered a simple answer. You can spend as little as 5k on the car and take out almost anything into and out of corners (provided there is a good driver). Same goes for S13.

For the most part I think the thread was talking about cornering abilities and wasn't talking about a straight line race. Understeer in FWD cars is inevitable.

Dorian

11-12-2003, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by Mobil1Skyline
few months back Super Street ran an article ona guy who built an AE86 for like 6 grand total and it was pretty sweet.:thumb: Wasn't it PJ's? PJ Bonaficio's? Gold right? His car would have been a little less than 6k but he wanted to spend some money on a "nice" paint job. Labor was free since it's his shop but the paint still cost him a little.

*I am not looking to make any enemies here. This is a good discussion so if I say (said) anything to offend anyone...sorry*

axio

11-12-2003, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Mobil1Skyline
whole project can be done for less than 10g if you spend your money right.:)

few months back Super Street ran an article ona guy who built an AE86 for like 6 grand total and it was pretty sweet.:thumb:
Right and in the end you've spent 10 g's on a 1986 Corolla. And I do hope you realize that the "real" numbers and reported numbers aren't going to match...

For less than 10 g's you can make a Civic pretty damn fast on your own also.

Originally posted by S14 Wannabe
He asked a simple question I answered a simple answer. You can spend as little as 5k on the car and take out almost anything into and out of corners (provided there is a good driver). Same goes for S13.

For the most part I think the thread was talking about cornering abilities and wasn't talking about a straight line race. Understeer in FWD cars is inevitable.
It all boils down to suspension/tuning. Integras have ruled touring circuits for a while now.

Mobil1

11-12-2003, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by S14 Wannabe
Wasn't it PJ's? PJ Bonaficio's? Gold right? His car would have been a little less than 6k but he wanted to spend some money on a "nice" paint job. Labor was free since it's his shop but the paint still cost him a little. yeah, thats the one!

Toda racing offers a 4AGE engine kit for 3 grand, supposedly makes the little motor quite a beast!:thumb:

he didnt use that kit, but still 6 grand for a fun little car like that is quite the bargain.

Mobil1

11-12-2003, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by tstiger
For less than 10 g's you can make a Civic pretty damn fast on your own also. true, but the civic still has the drawbacks of a front drive vehicle.:(

iMOTION S14

11-12-2003, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by S14 Wannabe
:confused: AE86

Yeah... if you're lucky to run into some unsuspecting old lady selling one.

VQuick

11-12-2003, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by azinwood
CovertPenguin what type of competitive racing do you do with your car or do you just do competitive talking?

:roflmao: x eleventybillion :thumb:

CovertPenguin

11-12-2003, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by VQuick
:roflmao: x eleventybillion :thumb:

coming from the man with the automatic maxima who writes about racing other than actually doing it..

If anything, I have much more experince than you.. I've atleast competed in an autocross, gone to the drag strip, and street race on occasion.. what have u done? other than write about it..

Mobil1

11-12-2003, 10:17 PM

oh the drama.

:roflmao:

TopSeller

11-12-2003, 10:32 PM

meangreen94z

11-12-2003, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by Replica
I guess this is another "MR2's are god's gift to cars" post.

Funny only the MR2 owners seem to think that.

CovertPenguin

11-12-2003, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by meangreen94z
Funny only the MR2 owners seem to think that.

jesus H.. i didn't even make the fucking post :gay:

omg hay guyZ!

11-13-2003, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
jesus H.. i didn't even make the fucking post :gay:

I gotta agree with him on this one.

Replica

11-13-2003, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by meangreen94z
Funny only the MR2 owners seem to think that.
Better yet, they don't make them anymore because the Miata out sold and out performed them. Must suck to lose to a bitch car...

Replica

11-13-2003, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
coming from the man with the automatic maxima who writes about racing other than actually doing it..

If anything, I have much more experince than you.. I've atleast competed in an autocross, gone to the drag strip, and street race on occasion.. what have u done? other than write about it..
I'd cry if someone told me I had an auto maxima. Wait...Maxima's are pretty nice cars....

What does your highschool experience have to do with this thread or your credibility about FWD cars? You don't have one. Not everything is a pissing contest, chill the fuck out.

Life > cars

CovertPenguin

11-13-2003, 07:21 AM

"I'd cry if someone told me I had an auto maxima. Wait...Maxima's are pretty nice cars...."

o wait, i didn't bash his car, nor was i speaking to you.. Maximas are really nice cars.. but they aren't "sport cars"

"What does your highschool experience have to do with this thread or your credibility about FWD cars? You don't have one. Not everything is a pissing contest, chill the fuck out."

credibilty? high school experince? Are u talking down to me? Im not in high school, i posted my view point on the different drive trains/engine layouts of other cars. The guy "joel" was E laughing at me, and i was just jokingly responding.

you<your mom last night

bitch...:roflmao:

"What does your highschool experience have to do with this thread "

i didn't even make this thread.. god dammit

CovertPenguin

11-13-2003, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by Replica
Better yet, they don't make them anymore because the Miata out sold and out performed them. Must suck to lose to a bitch car...

MR-S was a limited production car, they never intended for it to beat the miata... Its ok if the MR-S gets put out of production.. i see it as, put out of its misery... the last generation of the MR2 were much more glorious.. that would make the miata look like a bitch car..o wait it is... :roflmao: jk

Replica

11-13-2003, 07:56 AM

Where's the MR2? I wasn't talking about the MR-S. The MR2 was so "glorious" that it didn't out sell its competitors. Also, take a look at some Miata boards for a rude awakening.

EET FUK

11-13-2003, 07:58 AM

christ. mr2 owners make me want to sell mine.

come to think of it, i havent seen any mid engine cars trap at 180 or run the salt flats at 175.

i guess the only thing FWD cars are good for is going in a straight line.

Replica

11-13-2003, 08:00 AM

Gay ass FWD :duh:

EET FUK

11-13-2003, 08:04 AM

Replica

11-13-2003, 08:05 AM

Since when was the S2k or RX7 Mid engine?:roflmao:

EET FUK

11-13-2003, 08:13 AM

Nissans, toyotas, true sports cars, takes knowledge to work on, and tune.

also, this little comment is wack. there have been very few toyotas and nissans to come under the moniker of a "sports car". toyota got its start by introducing more fuel efficient cars into the marketplace.

and they really dont take much knowledge to work on and tune, outside of knowing the cam and bucket valvetrain design and retarded EGR systems they use, everything else is pretty cut and dry.

Replica

11-13-2003, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by CovertPenguin

you<your mom last night
Learn how to use "greater than" symbols...
Nissans, toyotas, true sports cars, takes knowledge to work on, and tune.
Ever looked at a 300ZX? Come to think of it, how many Nissans and Toyotas have you "tuned" or "worked on?" How many motors have you pulled? How many days have you spent blowing your money on a dyno? I'd like to know the educational background of my claimed automotive superior, or is that simply based on your mid-mount motor?

You're a waste of time.

blackrsx

11-13-2003, 09:08 AM

Jason (covert) get your ass buddy off the boards. spanx:gay:

Mobil1

11-13-2003, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by Replica
Since when was the S2k or RX7 Mid engine?:roflmao: the engine is mounted behind the front wheels in the rx7 (i didnt know the s2k was the same though) so it is considered Front Mid Engine. other cars defined as such are the 350Z, RX8 and G35 just to name a few.

mounting the engine further back in the engine bay gives more balance to the car by distributing the weight more evenly, and makes the car technically a Mid Front Engine.

DrKilljoY

11-13-2003, 09:20 AM

yup, I concur RX-7s (all of them) and RX-8s are (front) mid-engined.

Replica

11-13-2003, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by Mobil1Skyline
the engine is mounted behind the front wheels in the rx7 (i didnt know the s2k was the same though) so it is considered Front Mid Engine. other cars defined as such are the 350Z, RX8 and G35 just to name a few.

mounting the engine further back in the engine bay gives more balance to the car by distributing the weight more evenly, and makes the car technically a Mid Front Engine.
I'm aware that it's mounted back a bit but it's not mid mount. In that last sentence it almost sounds like you're saying anything with 50/50 is mid mount...

Mobil1

11-13-2003, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by Replica
I'm aware that it's mounted back a bit but it's not mid mount. In that last sentence it almost sounds like you're saying anything with 50/50 is mid mount... sorry, thats not what i meant. what i meant was that by mounting the motor further back in the engine bay you get the car closer to 50/50 weight distribution.

any car with the motor mounted behind the front wheels is considered to be Mid Front Engine.:)

Replica

11-13-2003, 09:31 AM

Mid Front engine....more jumbled wording...:roflmao:

Mobil1

11-13-2003, 09:32 AM

Front Mid Engine, sorry.:(

VQuick

11-13-2003, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
coming from the man with the automatic maxima who writes about racing other than actually doing it..

If anything, I have much more experince than you.. I've atleast competed in an autocross, gone to the drag strip, and street race on occasion.. what have u done? other than write about it..

Don't worry, I've got a few wins under my belt, too. They were all done in *gasp* fwd cars! I wouldn't have known enough to write about racing if I hadn't actually done it.;)

The way I see it, there are benefits to having fwd. They make good training cars. They can be more forgiving than rwd, since understeer is usually easier to deal with than oversteer. This lets budding drivers learn the basics of car control so that they can step up to rwd/awd later on.

1314

11-13-2003, 10:39 AM

FWD......are simply at a disadvantage when in competition with RWD cars. [/B]

Someone tell that to RealTime Racing. Damn those pesky FWD Integra's for beating the BMW's. :p

CovertPenguin

11-13-2003, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by face:face
christ. mr2 owners make me want to sell mine.

come to think of it, i havent seen any mid engine cars trap at 180 or run the salt flats at 175.

i guess the only thing FWD cars are good for is going in a straight line.

actually.. the mr2 turbo is the fastest in its class.. reaching over 200 mph (it hit 211) at the salt flats.

its owned and built by Aase brothers racing in californa.

i do have a pic but its not the right format for this forum =(

CovertPenguin

11-13-2003, 12:01 PM

"Don't worry, I've got a few wins under my belt, too. They were all done in *gasp* fwd cars! I wouldn't have known enough to write about racing if I hadn't actually done it."

ryan just told me u were a big wuss.. lol who knows

CovertPenguin

11-13-2003, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by blackrsx
Jason (covert) get your ass buddy off the boards. spanx:gay:

lol your just mad he said FWD sucks.. and its his name..not mine.. lol.. he can get beat up in the street if he wants.. im not getting involved with what he said..

CovertPenguin

11-13-2003, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by Replica
Where's the MR2? I wasn't talking about the MR-S. The MR2 was so "glorious" that it didn't out sell its competitors. Also, take a look at some Miata boards for a rude awakening.

o wow... miata was never even in the same price bracket... the mr2 was a direct competitor with the fiero.. and guess what lasted longer? and if the mr2 is a big failure.. i guess u are going to have to call the supra/300zx/VR4/ etc etc failures as well... and also.. i didn't make this thread... and im not even fucking bashing other types of cars.. shit u were the one who said miatas were bitch cars first anyways

blackrsx

11-13-2003, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
lol your just mad he said FWD sucks.. and its his name..not mine.. lol.. he can get beat up in the street if he wants.. im not getting involved with what he said..

No I'm not, if I wanted to I could sell my car and buy an older car and mod it out. Personally, as a daily driver, I would never have anything that is more than 4-5 years old. :thumb:

I just think that he's a dumbass for having such a close minded opinion. :thumb:

VQuick

11-13-2003, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
ryan just told me u were a big wuss.. lol who knows

Well, he knows I beat an IS300 before. But if someone who has a clean driving record and won't total a car in 8 days is a wuss, I'm guilty as charged.;)

I still haven't seen anyone explain why fwd cars aren't good to learn on. That should be interesting.:)

Mobil1

11-13-2003, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by VQuick
I still haven't seen anyone explain why fwd cars aren't good to learn on. That should be interesting.:) imo theyre the best trainer car. like you said earlier, theyre much more forgiving than rwd applications.

EET FUK

11-13-2003, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
actually.. the mr2 turbo is the fastest in its class.. reaching over 200 mph (it hit 211) at the salt flats.

its owned and built by Aase brothers racing in californa.

i do have a pic but its not the right format for this forum =(

and how many other 2 seat, mid engine, inline four cars cars have competed in salt flat flat racing?

god, there must be so many.

CovertPenguin

11-13-2003, 01:26 PM

""i havent seen any mid engine cars trap at 180 or run the salt flats at 175."

god damn.. there is no winning this huh... i just fricken told u that a mid engine car went 211 miles an hour, when you said "i have never even seen a mid engine car go that fast".. and instead of saying "o i didn't know that" or "my bad" or anything of that sort... you go about trying to point out other things wrong... first off... salt flats is pretty much soley judged on how large the engine is... i can name MANY 2 liters out there they would be able to compete.. and funny enough.. a SW20 with a destroked turbo charged 20 valve also set a record on the salt flats.. but im just expecting something else u are going to throw out..for the 1 liter competition.. but then again... your going to find to bitch about again..

facts: i didn't start this thread to fucking fight.. at all... shit.. i didn't even start this thread.. LET ALONE FUCKING MENTION MY CAR... until someone talked shit ABOUT my car.. and then of course im going to defend it... if i thought what they said was wrong...

fact: i jokinly made fun of the miata, replica said it was a bitch car first and then he came around saying it killed the mr2.. which is totally false...

fact: i never really made fun of FWD..it has a purpose in this world.. so those of u that are trying to start something that way? ya.. die..

CovertPenguin

11-13-2003, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by VQuick
Well, he knows I beat an IS300 before. But if someone who has a clean driving record and won't total a car in 8 days is a wuss, I'm guilty as charged.;)

I still haven't seen anyone explain why fwd cars aren't good to learn on. That should be interesting.:)

lol ya.. ryans a bit too crazy... hes forced to drive a taurus now..

Mobil1

11-13-2003, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
hes forced to drive a taraus now.. thats funny....i am too.:(

EET FUK

11-13-2003, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
""i havent seen any mid engine cars trap at 180 or run the salt flats at 175."

god damn.. there is no winning this huh... i just fricken told u that a mid engine car went 211 miles an hour, when you said "i have never even seen a mid engine car go that fast".. and instead of saying "o i didn't know that" or "my bad" or anything of that sort... you go about trying to point out other things wrong... first off... salt flats is pretty much soley judged on how large the engine is... i can name MANY 2 liters out there they would be able to compete.. and funny enough.. a SW20 with a destroked turbo charged 20 valve also set a record on the salt flats.. but im just expecting something else u are going to throw out..for the 1 liter competition.. but then again... your going to find to bitch about again..

facts: i didn't start this thread to fucking fight.. at all... shit.. i didn't even start this thread.. LET ALONE FUCKING MENTION MY CAR... until someone talked shit ABOUT my car.. and then of course im going to defend it... if i thought what they said was wrong...

fact: i jokinly made fun of the miata, replica said it was a bitch car first and then he came around saying it killed the mr2.. which is totally false...

fact: i never really made fun of FWD..it has a purpose in this world.. so those of u that are trying to start something that way? ya.. die..

calm down champ. people brought up the MR2 because mr polar bear mentioned 3 "mid engine" cars that in actuality, only 1 was mid engine.

OneArmedScissor

11-13-2003, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by Replica
I'm aware that it's mounted back a bit but it's not mid mount. In that last sentence it almost sounds like you're saying anything with 50/50 is mid mount...

i invite you to come look under the hood of my s2k.

it IS in fact mid mounted.
engine is behind the front axle....mounted in the middle section of the car.

TopSeller

11-13-2003, 02:54 PM

^^^ got u there

DrKilljoY

11-13-2003, 03:13 PM

Another technically mid-engined vehicle (and still reigning class record holder) is the RX-7.

In 1995 they topped 242 MPH at Bonneville.

OneArmedScissor

11-13-2003, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by DrKilljoY
Another technically mid-engined vehicle (and still reigning class record holder) is the RX-7.

In 1995 they topped 242 MPH at Bonneville.

yeah. that engine is so damn small.

it only looks big because you have like 3 miles of vacuum hoses under that hood! :roflmao:

thats the secret to the god like handling of the rx7.

id rather have one of them than an mr2 turbo personally.

i like the way they sound...call me weird.

DrKilljoY

11-13-2003, 03:47 PM

note:
Actually the RX-7 does not own the C/BMS record anymore it belongs to of all things a MG. Albeit this MG is a bastardized creation.

read on..."Tom Barnhart of the Waddill Racing Team joined CMGC members at our Natter & Noggin May 12th at Mack's. Tom and the team set a class record last year during Speed Week at the Bonneville Salt Flats with their "Bonneville A". The "A" is a blown, fuel injected, Chevy V6 powered 1957 MGA, dynoed at over 900HP! The "A" achieved a record 243.97 MPH in the Class E / Blown Modified Sports category. Tom is currently preparing his own MG powered speed record car and is assisting in the development of an Alfa Romeo salt car as well."

FWIW - the Bonneville RX-7 was expected to run at nearly 300 MPH, however poor weather for 2 years in a row kept the speeds down considerably leaving the RX-7 with only a 242 mph (2 mile)run. It is also worth mentioning they ran the car at another salt flat and ran a 238 mph run. (1 mile)

I spoke with the Racing Beat bunch at Sevenstock in 2002 and learned that they have always had thoughts of returning to Bonneville for another chance at the record.

Mobil1

11-13-2003, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by Zero
id rather have one of them than an mr2 turbo personally.

i like the way they sound...call me weird. :stupid:

vuu-SW21

11-14-2003, 09:33 AM

why do we compare cars so much, it is all about taste and preference. And the mr-s is the next model of mr-2. if you know on them, it says mr-2 spyder.. on in japan at least.
And I do not consider the s2k a mid engine car. Sorry because if that is the case, there is not such things as FR cars, they are all FM cars....

CovertPenguin

11-14-2003, 10:06 AM

i-vtec195

11-14-2003, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by meangreen94z
Funny only the MR2 owners seem to think that.

the next car i'mma buy is most likely a hatch, however, i have NEVER heard of anyone not taking a liking to the MR2 who as actaully spent some reasonable time behind the wheel. definately the most fun non-exotic car i've ever played with. and as far as the FWD cars go, i loved me DA with a passion, but spinning through 3rd blew balls against my friend's 67 camaro, then losing by only one car length.

Mobil1

11-14-2003, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
even a camaro Z28 would be classifyed as a FM car if we go by that classifcation that they were speaking of.. what about vettes and mustangs? i wasnt aware there were any domestics built in a FM configuration.:confused:

stephenlc

11-15-2003, 03:34 PM

Torque steer does suck, I need a LSD.:(

HangNail

11-15-2003, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
o wow... miata was never even in the same price bracket... the mr2 was a direct competitor with the fiero.. and guess what lasted longer? and if the mr2 is a big failure.. i guess u are going to have to call the supra/300zx/VR4/ etc etc failures as well... and also.. i didn't make this thread... and im not even fucking bashing other types of cars.. shit u were the one who said miatas were bitch cars first anyways
The Miata was priced around $20-25,000. The MR2 was a failure, it DIDN'T sell. Yes, the Supra, VR4 and 300xz were all financial failures. They were outsold by Camaros and Mustangs.

TopSeller

11-15-2003, 04:45 PM

especially the vr4 i think that car could have had alot of potential

Mobil1

11-15-2003, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by HangNail
The Miata was priced around $20-25,000. The MR2 was a failure, it DIDN'T sell. Yes, the Supra, VR4 and 300xz were all financial failures. They were outsold by Camaros and Mustangs. perhaps here in our market, but over seas the Supra and MR2 were anything but financial failures.

why are we talking about this again?

talk about thread jacking.
:./

PissYellowGTi

11-15-2003, 06:30 PM

I'm surpised no one has said anything about the Mini Cooper S. They're supposed to handle very well for a FWD car.

I ride a bike

11-15-2003, 08:37 PM

i wanna know why the guy that started this hasnt replied at all, someone should lock this thread cuz its fuckin gay

OneArmedScissor

11-15-2003, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by vuu-SW21
why do we compare cars so much, it is all about taste and preference. And the mr-s is the next model of mr-2. if you know on them, it says mr-2 spyder.. on in japan at least.
And I do not consider the s2k a mid engine car. Sorry because if that is the case, there is not such things as FR cars, they are all FM cars....

do you have any clue what you are talking about?

fm = front engine MIddle wheel drive? moron wheel drive? :roflmao:

TAKE A LOOK UNDER THE HOOD OF THE s2k!

most cars (like my wrx ) have the engine in FRONT of the suspension mount points. this makes it in the front of the car.

the 911 carrera has the car mounted BEHIND the rear axle (another point of reference usually the same since the axle has to be right underneath the suspension mount...think about it for a second. look at the strut tops and you can tell where the engine is in relation.

the 911 is RR

first letter is where the engine is...second letter is what wheel drive.

the s2k is MR cause the engine sits in the MIDDLE...RIGHT ON the axle.

the z28 camaro has the engine in FRONT of the front axle.

FR front engine rear wheel drive.

sigh. i hate having to explain basic things to people.

i guess its a common misconception.

Mobil1

11-16-2003, 09:33 AM

yeah, but alot of people call cars with the engine in front of the driver, but behind the front axle FM, it started with nissan developed the FM platform which the G35 and 350Z are built on. Nissans FM platform meant Front Midship.

so thats why alot of people refer to cars like the s2k as FM.

ohh, and thanks for clearing up the camaro z28 thing...i didnt think it was a mid engine set up.

MrRolo

11-17-2003, 02:11 AM

everyone can say all they want about FF cars, just look at the standings in ANY type of racing where it allows a FF car to be competitive... key words: allows to be competitive. FF has its limits but do not think for one second its any less of a car cuz it will hand you your ass when you least expect it. I'm a fan of japanese road racing series and even british touring series and FF cars beat RWD ALL THE TIME. the same for RWD over FWD. its not suprising or anything its just what it is. It's harder to drive a high powered FF car and requires more skill to achieve fast times but it can be done. You can check the top 30 fastest times for every circuit in japan and it will have FF cars in it.. wasnt the top fuel civic like number 7 at Tskuba a few years ago? like over GTRs and STi's and shit.. unless you are a FF racing fan like me you probably never have tried to explore the depths of FWD racing so dont really notice how well they do in road racing. FF drag racing is advancing well... FF is my favorite drivetrain but i'm not that closeminded to think just because its my favorite that its the best (like some of you)

omg hay guyZ!

11-17-2003, 02:51 AM

the top fuel ctr owns the best time at tsukuba. the only car that stands a chance of beating it, the top fuel itr (K20).

PissYellowGTi

11-17-2003, 02:53 AM

Exactly. I think the biggest reason most FWD cars here suck is because most are sold with open differentials. LSD makes a big diff.

Mobil1

11-17-2003, 12:11 PM

the reason FF cars stay competitive in many forms of Japanese and European racing is simply that to keep the field even, they place more restrictive limits on the RWD and AWD cars weight. they are required to weigh quite a bit more than FF cars. i dont hate FF cars, i think all drive train set ups have their advantages and disadvantages. when you place considerably more weight on one drive train than another, the lighter car no matter what drive train will obviously stay very very competitive. this explains the Tsukuba times, and the results of many BTCC races and N1 Endurance as well.

in short : allow any car no matter what drive train to reduce its weight more than its competitors and it will be much more competitive than it was before.

11-17-2003, 01:03 PM

Having perfect 50/50 weight distribution isn't the best in every situation. Having slightly front bias means you can accelerate through the turn, shifting the weight back and gaining traction.

conecrazy

11-18-2003, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by CovertPolarBear
Loss of traction, "torque" steering, real race cars arent FWD, hell, good cars arent even front engine.. at least mid engine RWD... like the S2K or RX7... Mr2 is possibly the best car on the market for the price, and power output... anyone care to disagree?

ok i know it's late but i'm gonna put something on this one.

the MR2 is rear biased.

Weight dist (w/driver, f/r, % ............................. 44/56

something in my opinion is worse than front wheel bias. there is a higher rate of unpredictability IMHO on a rear biased car than a front biased.

I'm not saying FWD is better than RWD. I still think FWD is wrong wheel drive. but i would not discount them. but on an FR car, you would want slight front bias because of weight shift during acceleration.

anyone who completely discounts front bias simply doesn't know how to drive. and i would hate to be on the same road with a person who thinks rear bias is superior to all.

11-18-2003, 10:50 AM

we jumped on this thread a little late, but I agree with conecrazy.

The 350Z was purposefully given 53/47 weight distribution because of the turning under acceleration phenomena. 50/50 is nice if you maintain static speed throughout the turn. 44/56 just plain sucks ass. For you Coverts to bring this thread up to spread the MR2 gospel is just incorrect

Albo: THE MR2 CAN NEVAR LOST
conecrazy: LOL
conecrazy: coverts, this is god. i give you MR2's. spread my word and my bidding, for thee will praise me and rejoice.
Albo: lolololol

conecrazy

11-18-2003, 10:53 AM

hmm new quote for a sig....

"The MR-2 is my gift to thee. Spread my word and yee shall praise me. Blessed is he who comes in the name of the MR-2 and I shall grant thee peace." - God

azinwood

11-18-2003, 10:58 AM

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Juicy

11-18-2003, 11:05 AM

lol @ work

axio

11-18-2003, 11:19 AM

*thinks that the Coverts need to find women and spend a lil less time jizzing all over their MR2's*

CovertPenguin

11-18-2003, 11:30 AM

http://www.student.smsu.edu/s/san232s/hardfunnypics/homolucas-b0nd.jpg

CovertPenguin

11-18-2003, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by tstiger
*thinks that the Coverts need to find women and spend a lil less time jizzing all over their MR2's*

polarbear doesn't have a mr2 smart guy

CovertPenguin

11-18-2003, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by conecrazy
hmm new quote for a sig....

"The MR-2 is my gift to thee. Spread my word and yee shall praise me. Blessed is he who comes in the name of the MR-2 and I shall grant thee peace." - God

:roflmao: my new AIM profile hehe

axio

11-18-2003, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
polarbear doesn't have a mr2 smart guy
So you guys set up a circle jerk around your MR2?

wow

thats all I have to say

wow

CovertPenguin

11-18-2003, 11:40 AM

"omething in my opinion is worse than front wheel bias. there is a higher rate of unpredictability IMHO on a rear biased car than a front biased. "

i also guess u are saying the NSX, any le mans car, ferraris, etc etc are also bad because they have a rear bias... shit some front engine ferraris STILL have a rear bias...

having less weight on the front tires makes the front end more flickable and improves turn-in. The car will want to bring its nose around more.

Of course, the trick is making the tail want to agree with what the nose is doing.

even the same behavior is inherent in performance fighter aircraft - like the F16. The center of gravity on that jet is actually farther back, towards the tail. Without a computer to stabilize it, it would want to flip on it's back and fly backwards. Then again - for manuvering [or cornering] purposes, a degree of inherent instability is a good thing. Controlling that instability is the real skill

CovertPenguin

11-18-2003, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by tstiger
So you guys set up a circle jerk around your MR2?

wow

thats all I have to say

wow

wow...

http://www.student.smsu.edu/s/san232s/hardfunnypics/bearice_2.jpg

funny how the guy with a Honda civic EX is commenting on sport cars he probably knows nothing about...

11-18-2003, 11:48 AM

the MR2 isn't a sports car, either. It's a Runabout!

axio

11-18-2003, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
funny how the guy with a Honda civic EX is commenting on sport cars he probably knows nothing about...
:roflmao:

Right, I know nothing ;)

Enjoy your circle jerks, you are just acting like a pretentious little prig who thinks that his car is God's answer to everything... even though it was a failure as far as sales go in the states, hasn't dominated any major circuit in years, and there are cheaper/better alternatives. The MR2 is nice, but not as nice as you make it out to be. For far less than it could take to build a "badass" MR2 that would rule in... lets say... autocrossing, you can build a Civic that would run circles around it.

:)

conecrazy

11-18-2003, 11:54 AM

did i say it was bad? i said it was worse because it's less predictable. the average person will not beable to handle a rear biased car in an emergency situation. that's why FWD is popular with today's market. you and the polar bear must drive for ferrari. I'm sure michael schumacher learned everything from you.

btw the honda civic has an average weight dist of about 60/40 f/r about the same ratio as the beloved MKII MR2 only opposite.

axio

11-18-2003, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by conecrazy
you and the polar bear must drive for ferrari. I'm sure michael schumacher learned everything from you.
:roflmao:

11-18-2003, 11:56 AM

the MR2 IS nice, but it's not as great as these people say it is. First of all, this thread started off as saying nothing's better than 50/50 weight distribution. Ok subject to debate but cool ... and then we find out the MR2 doesn't even come close to 50/50, it's some gay ass 44/56.

It is fucking 50/50 if you brake in the middle of a turn. Exxxxxcellent cornering technique.

Juicy: did a quick lookup
Juicy: Modena 360 has a rear bias
Albo: do they win races?
Albo: do a quick lookup
Albo: nope
Juicy: haha

CovertPenguin

11-18-2003, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by tstiger
:roflmao:

Right, I know nothing ;)

Enjoy your circle jerks, you are just acting like a pretentious little prig who thinks that his car is God's answer to everything... even though it was a failure as far as sales go in the states, hasn't dominated any major circuit in years, and there are cheaper/better alternatives. The MR2 is nice, but not as nice as you make it out to be. For far less than it could take to build a "badass" MR2 that would rule in... lets say... autocrossing, you can build a Civic that would run circles around it.

:)

i know even commenting anything to you is probably a waste of my time.. but... i said nothing about the mr2 except when commented on moron... i was saying 'rear bias' cars.. which is a whole fucking array of cars... not just my "beloved mr2" and who the fuck am i circle jerking with moron.. the poster of thisfucking thread "not even me" hasn't responded yet..

axio

11-18-2003, 11:58 AM

*yawn* so instead of refuting anything, you just choose to make an attack against anyone who raises a point

... I see a ton of responses in this thread about how fb cars aren't god's gift to mankind, and you haven't bothered to do anything other than post a few pictures? great

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
i know even commenting anything to you is probably a waste of my time.. but... i said nothing about the mr2 except when commented on moron... i was saying 'rear bias' cars.. which is a whole fucking array of cars... not just my "beloved mr2" and who the fuck am i circle jerking with moron.. the poster of thisfucking thread "not even me" hasn't responded yet..
Don't you realize that rear bias isn't good in every style of driving?

CovertPenguin

11-18-2003, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by conecrazy
did i say it was bad? i said it was worse because it's less predictable. the average person will not beable to handle a rear biased car in an emergency situation. that's why FWD is popular with today's market. you and the polar bear must drive for ferrari. I'm sure michael schumacher learned everything from you.

btw the honda civic has an average weight dist of about 60/40 f/r about the same ratio as the beloved MKII MR2 only opposite.

if your just going to talk shit without even backing up your claim why even post? im done with this thread.. cone your atleast making remote statements.. but everyone else is just jumping on the bandwagon and being dick heads.. I didn't start the thread and i didn't even really talk about my mr2... Polarbear said the only positive thing about the mr2... go talk to him :gay:

CovertPenguin

11-18-2003, 12:03 PM

"*yawn* so instead of refuting anything, you just choose to make an attack against anyone who raises a point"

no... you have never, ever made a "real" point through out this entire thread carpet muncher :D besides the lame ass comments about me

Andy

11-18-2003, 12:03 PM

axio

11-18-2003, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
no... you have never, ever made a "real" point through out this entire thread carpet muncher :D besides the lame ass comments about me
Give it up, you lost.

hard.

You have yet to show why a FB car is better than RB car in all aspects, you have yet to explain why FB cars dominate over RB cars in certain circuits.

All you have is your little pictures, your MR2, and your hand.

Mobil1

11-18-2003, 12:06 PM

this thread is fucking gay now.

that is all.

11-18-2003, 12:08 PM

:roflmao: it's been gay

axio

11-18-2003, 12:13 PM

I <3 this thread and everyone in it. We should have a BAR BE QUE!

azinwood

11-18-2003, 12:14 PM

archives?

axio

11-18-2003, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by azinwood
archives? definately

Dorian

11-18-2003, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by azinwood
archives? No. How about deleting the whole thing. People took it to the next level by putting out personal insults to each other. I'm surprised Tya didn't regulate on some of you.

azinwood

11-18-2003, 12:33 PM

axio

11-18-2003, 12:35 PM

My e-penis feels gargantuan now.

MrRolo

11-18-2003, 12:46 PM

oh yea, and the Tsukuba record was for time trial, didnt have any restriction only track based restrictions. FWD will be lighter than RWD anyway given the same platform of course. Yea the jspec and euro races have all those restrictions to keep it competitive, but if the other drive trains were as great as everyone makes it seem, or FF was so bad as everyone makes it, then why arent they being owned daily. just because the class isnt the best class or the fastest class doesnt make it any less of a performer than the faster classes. every time I watch Best Motoring or top gear or option videos i wonder if people evn see the integra trailing the rx7 the whole race or the civic passing the silvia s15... or do they just void that out because they dont like those cars? FF can be competitive but it has its limits.

SHIFT_KA

11-18-2003, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by S14 Wannabe
No. How about deleting the whole thing. People took it to the next level by putting out personal insults to each other. I'm surprised Tya didn't regulate on some of you. these guys arent going to go out and beat each other up...most of these are some old folks that are trying to do a battle of the wits....check out all their threads from VQ arguments to this thread....and so far..no one has requested a lock from either parties which to me was a shock:eek3:

SecretAgent

11-18-2003, 02:15 PM

t3h mrt000s pwnz allllllllllllll111!!!

translation: the mr2 owns none.

teggy

11-18-2003, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by tstiger

All you have is your little pictures, your MR2, and your hand.

btw MR2s are ugly

blackrsx

11-18-2003, 02:42 PM

I have one in my avatar. :(

11-18-2003, 03:07 PM

haha that pic rules

oh my, I have page 8 ownitis

omg hay guyZ!

11-18-2003, 03:15 PM

i gots secondzees!!!!

axio

11-18-2003, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by captain totally sweet
i gots secondzees!!!! I want in on this sweet cheeks

conecrazy

11-18-2003, 03:59 PM

:2thumbs:

CovertPenguin

11-18-2003, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by SHIFT_KA
these guys arent going to go out and beat each other up...most of these are some old folks that are trying to do a battle of the wits....check out all their threads from VQ arguments to this thread....and so far..no one has requested a lock from either parties which to me was a shock:eek3:

alright then.. lock :D let the FWD faggotry end

axio

11-18-2003, 04:12 PM

*puts his nutsack on CovertPenguin's chin*

How does it feel to be teabagged?

omg hay guyZ!

11-18-2003, 04:24 PM

hahaha, for some reason i thought this was midship runabout faggotry.

teggy

11-18-2003, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by blackrsx
I have one in my avatar. :(

SHUT UP JAVIER!!!!!:smack: :roflmao: :roflmao:

JeffTSi924

11-18-2003, 06:47 PM

darn my car is fwd:(

fast2.8fiero

11-18-2003, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
or you could buy one of them Feiro's... hehe.. even then, they aren't too great of a car at all... their engines really suck stock too... unless you want to invest some nice money into them, drop a northstar V8 or something..

Motor wise yes they suck but i almost promise u i will hang right with u or pass u in the corners:D on my stock suspension