Anyone happen to drive by dunvale and westheimer last night..

[gandhibrokemyskates]

around 12am-1:30am. There was a fatal shooting involving a police officer and 15 year old kid.


here's the story.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/110103_APlocal_officershooting.html


The officer saw the SUV repeatedly driving slowly around the theater's parking lot on Friday night, police spokesman John Cannon said.

That caught the officer's attention because several burglaries and auto thefts have been reported at the southwest Houston theater, Cannon told the Houston Chronicle for a story on its Web site Saturday.

When the officer approached the SUV on foot, the driver sped away, jumped the curb and drove off, Cannon said. The officer called for backup, and two other off-duty officers responded.

The original officer, his gun drawn, walked up to the SUV when it ran into traffic and asked the driver to get out, Cannon said.

"The officer's hands with his weapon were inside the suspects' window when the vehicle lunged forward, and the officer discharged his weapon once, striking the suspect," Cannon said. The 15-year-old boy who was driving the SUV was shot in the chest.

Three other juveniles in the SUV were taken into custody for questioning.

Police did not immediately identify the officer or the victim.

(Copyright 2003 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[GhostFaceKilla]

Did he die upon the shot? Pretty stupid way to waste your life for nothing... he was only 15 :./

[ToAn]

stupid ass punk kids... never try to run from the law :thumbsdow

[RealLive]

stupid kid...

[RZFD]

Moron. It's hard to feel sorry for people like that.:thumbsdow

[krnboi2727]

Originally posted by RZFD
Moron. It's hard to feel sorry for people like that.:thumbsdow

werd

[R22GG]

No details? who it was, what type of SUV? I always hear of these things and wonder if they're who I think they are

[Mobil1]

dumb ass kids.:o :thumbsdow

feel bad for the kids family though.:(

[Mr.TxHustla]

stupid kid for tryin to run....but i really disagree with the cop lettin loose one towards the kids chest..why not just shoot tires out if he was that close.........no shoot to kill...i hate that shit

[SHIFT_KA]

:thumbsdow

[Jamiroquai]

Originally posted by RZFD
Moron. It's hard to feel sorry for people like that.:thumbsdow

[01civicon19s]

Dumbass lil kids.

[SprayedAccord]

Yay!! Another kid bites the dust from stupidity. We don't need people like that to reproduce. :thumb:

[Gooback]

Originally posted by AKTNBADent.
stupid kid for tryin to run....but i really disagree with the cop lettin loose one towards the kids chest..why not just shoot tires out if he was that close.........no shoot to kill...i hate that shit


I think it was more of a reaction thing once you have your gun inside the car pointed at somone and the startlement of the kid hitting the gas just made the cops body clenth and pulled the trigger........ still unfortunate and a shitty way to doie over nothing though:-/

[Red]

well shit, does the cop expect for a SUV to speed around the parking lot? wtf mayn, if i was 15 id get scurd if a cop was coming at me, the SUV most likely is mom and dads and they would probably kill me!!!

its not like its NOT NORMAL to see a suv "creeping" around a parking lot such as the the theatre one..

and im not sure but i dont think its procedure to put the gun through the window into the car when you're asking for the person to get out.

i hope the parents press charges on the cop... punk kids nothing, i dont see they did anything wrong, they were jus scurd.

[Jace]

if you jump a curb to run....thats a little bit more than scared...you done something wrong.

[Red]

hello, he was 15, no lisences, probably parents SUV, so wouldnt that make u wanna jump a curb to get out of there. he probaby thought it was just some parking lot security so it was ok to run. you guys swear he's the bad guy here.. THE KID IS THE VICTUM!!!

[OneArmedScissor]

dude he's 15. he doesn't fkn know any better.

I can't believe you people are that insensitive.

its one thing if he could actually drive but he had no idea wtf he was doing. probably didnt even have a permit.


if ANYONE came up to me guns drawn i dont care if he has a badge or not and id just been sitting there you bet your ass I would run. its called natural instinct and people have it. my better judgement says no dont run but if you were in the situation youd be scared off your ass.

theres a part of your brain that tells you to fight or flight and it would definitely be triggering your adrenal glands and sending impulses to your feet before you could TRY to make a rational decision.

[CheeseFrog]

Poor cop... there goes his job.

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by NuKonzRolla02
you guys swear he's the bad guy here.. THE KID IS THE VICTUM!!!

I'm sorry, but I have to chime in!

1) Now the kid is the victim right, well what if the Kid was breaking into your car and the cop had shot him? I mean the story did say that there have been alot of burglaries, so you don't know what his intentions were.

2) When someone says "Police stop" and there's a gun pointed in the window, I would stop! I mean the cop was just trying keep everyone's property safe. He saw something suspicious, tried to stop it, and they refused to stop! They were evading, plain and simple. That's not cool.

So how is the kid the victim? Its sad to hear that he got shot and died, but you have to pay the consequences for stupidity, and that's that.

[YAMADUDE]

The cop went a little too far. Granted it was an SUV, but the cop put himself into a dangerous situation and the kid paid for his mistake with his life. Why didnt they use the cop cars to block the SUV in? why didnt the cop open the door and pull the kid out? What did the kid do wrong?! He didnt do shit but evade and it wasnt until he was approached. Fuck that cop. I hope the dumb ass pussy is happy he killed a child for because he was driving around in circles .

[l33t]

i saw that shit and i saw kids getting arrested!

[syntheticGT]

It says he approached the car and the kid ran. He then saw it get stuck in traffic and went over there with guns drawn..normal operating procedures..and asked the kid out of the SUV.

The SUV jumped...more than likely the kids fault since I know its not a 5speed. And with all that...the officer pulled the trigger.

Who is the victim here??

Now the cop is gonna lose his fkn job over this shit because some gay lil fuck thought it would be cool to run.

NO MATTER how scared I would be...if a cop had his gun drawn at me...I would do whatever the fuck he wanted me to.

For real

Gabe:thumbsdow

[Kohinoor]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
I'm sorry, but I have to chime in!

1) Now the kid is the victim right, well what if the Kid was breaking into your car and the cop had shot him? I mean the story did say that there have been alot of burglaries, so you don't know what his intentions were.

2) When someone says "Police stop" and there's a gun pointed in the window, I would stop! I mean the cop was just trying keep everyone's property safe. He saw something suspicious, tried to stop it, and they refused to stop! They were evading, plain and simple. That's not cool.

So how is the kid the victim? Its sad to hear that he got shot and died, but you have to pay the consequences for stupidity, and that's that.

fuckin :wrd:

[Amplify]

This might sound mean, but I don't feel sorry for the kid. It was his fault for running from the cops. Common sense would tell you to stop, since technically they weren't doing anything they could've been charged for anyways (i.e. circling the parking lot). :-/

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by noquicky123
The cop went a little too far. Granted it was an SUV, but the cop put himself into a dangerous situation and the kid paid for his mistake with his life. Why didnt they use the cop cars to block the SUV in? why didnt the cop open the door and pull the kid out? What did the kid do wrong?! He didnt do shit but evade and it wasnt until he was approached. Fuck that cop. I hope the dumb ass pussy is happy he killed a child for because he was driving around in circles .

He didn't use a car cause he was on an extra job, so he was probably walking around, trying to use the element of suprise to catch them breaking in.

I don't know why the cop didn't approach the vehicle from the drivers side? The kid drove off from him, and he was running to catch up after he jumped a curb. Hmm??

You say he didn't do shit but evade, but evading is a felony my friend. That's a pretty serious crime!

All the cop was trying to do is find out what the kid was doing riding around. That's pretty suspicious in a area where there have been alot of burglaries to me. It kinda looks like someone's trying to case the parking lot and find easy targets to break into. The kid drove over a curb and shit, endangering lives of people driving by on the street, what if he would have jumped the curb and ran out into the street and hit a car filled with little kids?

[CheeseFrog]

Not only is the cop going to lose his job, the family of the victim is going to get very rich off of a wrongful death suit. It's going to be very hard for the cop to convince the jury that the kid tried to "run" when, by all accounts, there was traffic all around him. Now the cops are admitting it was "accidental". Since when is it department policy to have your finger ON the trigger if you're not actively firing?

Now I don't condone theft, and I really detest SUV's. But I think even less of murderers.

[SILVER]

another thing the cop must have been scared shitless, an suv full of people, im sure the cop didnt know there were just kids, and they still try to run, they said he kid got stuck in traffic, could it be that the cop was trying to stop him from doing something like hitting other cars or even running over someone even the cop himself?

there is not enough info to end up with a good conclusion, cops have broken into wrong homes and kill people and only get suspended with pay. dont see how this guy will loose his job.

[Red]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
I'm sorry, but I have to chime in!

1) Now the kid is the victim right, well what if the Kid was breaking into your car and the cop had shot him? I mean the story did say that there have been alot of burglaries, so you don't know what his intentions were.

2) When someone says "Police stop" and there's a gun pointed in the window, I would stop! I mean the cop was just trying keep everyone's property safe. He saw something suspicious, tried to stop it, and they refused to stop! They were evading, plain and simple. That's not cool.

So how is the kid the victim? Its sad to hear that he got shot and died, but you have to pay the consequences for stupidity, and that's that.

the kid wasnt breaking into cars, he was creeping in the parking lot, and went off, so number 1 cant be used.

i bet your ass he ddint say police stop, plus, theres been shit on the news about people POSING as cops and jacking people and shit, lastnight being halloween, u get wht im tryn to get at?

stupidity? you swear you havent done anything stupid in your time. give me a break, put yourself in his shoes pal.

[YAMADUDE]

It was a kid. Did he deserve to die because he ran? Ouch, yeah he hurt a lot of people doing that. Cops are suppose to use "common sense". They are not robots progammed to kill anyone. In this case, common sense wasnt used.

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by SILVER
there is not enough info to end up with a good conclusion, cops have broken into wrong homes and kill people and only get suspended with pay. dont see how this guy will loose his job.
Here in Houston, cops lose their jobs over wrongful arrest (ie. K-Mart parking lot raid). Appaerntly that cop thought so much of his job that he needed to kill somebody over it. I mean, JFC... its just a job! If the guy gets away in traffic, big fucking deal, get over it... Life goes on. He should have gone back to the job he was actually being paid to do -- security at the movie theater. But no, I guess he tried to be a hero/vigilante and ended up fucking it all up.

Edit: I seriously doubt they were thieves. What kind of thief cruises a parking lot bumpin music trying to attract attention to themselves?

[Red]

the car "jumped", the kid probably let go of the brakes before he put it in park. it also said the cop found him stuck in traffic, if he was stuck in traffic, the jumping of the car woudlnt get him very far would it?

it seems like you guys are forgetting that you all were once or still are kids. we've all done stupid shit before. this was uncalled for.. seriously, he shouldnt of even had his fuckin finger on the trigger!

[YAMADUDE]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
If the guy gets away in traffic, big fucking deal, get over it... Life goes on. He should have gone back to the job he was actually being paid to do -- security at the movie theater. But no, I guess he tried to be a hero/vigilante and ended up fucking it all up.

Edit: I seriously doubt they were thieves. What kind of thief cruises a parking lot bumpin music trying to attract attention to themselves?



Part 1 = exactly. Cop wanted to be a hero.

part 2 = no shit, they were probably scoping for girls.

[Tiger Styles]

I drove past there moments after (the incident). I was wondering what the hell was going on over there. The kid shouldnt have fled. That was his mistake and unfortunately it was a fatal one. Young people make mistakes, sometimes theyre deadly. But why the cop have his gun in the SUV in the 1st place? I dont know i can see both sides. but, the kid should have just stopped, in the 1st place.
The reports could be fabricated also though..like this one..
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/103103_local_hpdsuicide.html

If some of you remember, they ORIGINALLY said that SOMEONE ELSE walked into the station and went over to the cubicle and shot the piggy. NOW its a different story.

[GSR]

My car was broken in there awhile back. The cop that did the report told me that in the same month there has been reports of 30 vehicles broken in just at the AMC30 parking lot. That night that my car was broken in, another 5 car was broken in the same time also. those fkn kids deserved it, if they weren't stealing then they should of fkn stopped.

[syntheticGT]

the cop prolly had his gun in the SUV trying to get the door open or the driver/passenger out by hand.

[pewterhatch]

I think it was 20/20 or something that had a special on this kind of stuff. Police feel they should be respsected by everyone all the time. When you run from them your just showing them no respect, so they go crazy. They were showing one cop that screamed and crap at an old lady that didnt know she was running from him.

[den den]

I only saw the after math of when he was layed out on tha ground. Real buzz killer

[sshaikh01]

BULL-SHIT

i refuse to buy that dum piece of shit ass story. I've seen cops pull their guns out thuns of times, and even i was at gun point from the cops. they never put their guns, and hands inside your car. what kinda stupid reason is that.

Officers care for their safety first, because they don't know what you might have inside of your car, so they make sure to keep a safe distance between them and suspects.

what that article says is that the officer had his hands, and gun inside the car, while they sitting in the car, which means the officer had his gun to driver head or something, now ask yourself why would you do that, when the first thing they ask you to do is, put out your hands, and slowly open the door with one and lay on the ground with face down.


I think the officer shot the kid on purpose. Needles to say, he probably deserved it breaking into cars at age 15.

[glassuser]

1, the cop was on a side job, not acting in official capacity
2, the cop was using his personal vehicle, not a marked squad car, so no lights, siren, speakers, etc.
3, the cop had his finger on the trigger when he was not prepared to discharge his arm (that will get you fired by itself)
4, the cop stuck part of his body in an unsecured moving vehicle which he believed to be hostile (what the HELL?)
5, the cop claimed the victim was running, yet the vehicle was stopped at a traffic light

If some nut waving a gun chased me in his beater through traffic, I'd sure as hell run too, though I'd probably either run down the nut or draw and fire my own sidearm.

[iLL_Kid_Fame]

MY friend Tim was there when it happned.

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by glassuser
1, the cop was on a side job, not acting in official capacity
2, the cop was using his personal vehicle, not a marked squad car, so no lights, siren, speakers, etc.
3, the cop had his finger on the trigger when he was not prepared to discharge his arm (that will get you fired by itself)
4, the cop stuck part of his body in an unsecured moving vehicle which he believed to be hostile (what the HELL?)
5, the cop claimed the victim was running, yet the vehicle was stopped at a traffic light

If some nut waving a gun chased me in his beater through traffic, I'd sure as hell run too, though I'd probably either run down the nut or draw and fire my own sidearm.
Can I get a "amen"...

[alreadyknow]

heartless fucks.:eek3:

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by NuKonzRolla02
the kid wasnt breaking into cars, he was creeping in the parking lot, and went off, so number 1 cant be used.

i bet your ass he ddint say police stop, plus, theres been shit on the news about people POSING as cops and jacking people and shit, lastnight being halloween, u get wht im tryn to get at?

stupidity? you swear you havent done anything stupid in your time. give me a break, put yourself in his shoes pal.

I'm not saying that the kid deserved to die because he ran. If he would have just stopped though, then he wouldn't have anything to worry about. I've done stupid stuff before and i paid the consequences of them. Most cops working extra jobs wear their uniforms or shirts that identify them as police.

In reply to your first rebuttle, would you rather someone break into your car and then the cops catch them after they tore your shit up, or would you rather the cops stop and ID them and find out what they were doing. They weren't being accused of anything. The cop just wanted to stop them to find out what they were doing and ID them. I'd rather that they not break my window and tear my shit up, I don't know about you.

About the Halloween thing, I understand, but still that was stupidtidy.

[speeddemon]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
Poor cop... there goes his job.

yea....
i first drove by their and it looked like they were filming a movie or something with all the cameras out there on tripods and no ambulances... nothing but police cars.. right in front of that new video store that opened up, once was blockbuster.... so i was like ok whatever... my cousin calls me and tells me something serious is going on, so on my way back i stopped... sure enough a white chevy blazer approaching westheimer and a dodge caravan right in front of it as if it was coming out of the parking lot, they had the area blocked.. it looks like they were trying to be careful with their investigation cause someones gonna eat this one for a wrong doing. notice the article shows no proof, but only the cop suspected the car because they were circling and auto thefts had happened there.... someones gonna get in trouble for this one too.

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by speeddemon
yea....
notice the article shows no proof, but only the cop suspected the car because they were circling and auto thefts had happened there.... someones gonna get in trouble for this one too.

Rarely do police have hard proof infront of them. He was just trying to stop the vehicle to investigate the driver. As I have repeated time and time again in this thread, would you rather the cop catch someone in your shit after it's already been messed up (broken window, ripped dash etc...) or would you rather he stop someone because they look suspicious and find out what they are doing? Then your car will never get broken into!

You don't have to have proof that someone is being suspicious, actions prove enough.

[speeddemon]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
Rarely do police have hard proof infront of them. He was just trying to stop the vehicle to investigate the driver. As I have repeated time and time again in this thread, would you rather the cop catch someone in your shit after it's already been messed up (broken window, ripped dash etc...) or would you rather he stop someone because they look suspicious and find out what they are doing? Then your car will never get broken into!

You don't have to have proof that someone is being suspicious, actions prove enough.

ok so lets kill an innocent 15 yr old because he looked funny. WTF?!

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by speeddemon
ok so lets kill an innocent 15 yr old because he looked funny. WTF?!

The innocent 15yr old that you speak of, committed a felony by not stopping! True the innocent kid hadn't commited a crime yet, but I've had plenty of cops stop me while I'm walking and ask what I'm doing. You don't have to commit a crime for the police to ask you what your name is, or what you are doing in the area.

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
The innocent 15yr old that you speak of, committed a felony by not stopping!
So? Last time I checked, that doesn't carry the death penalty.

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
So? Last time I checked, that doesn't carry the death penalty.

True, he was not sentenced to death, he chose that route by not stopping, plain and simple. Was the shot intentional, I don't know? There are alot of unknown factors in this scenario. You can blame the cops if you want, but the simple fact is, if he wouldn't have ran from them, the cop wouldn't have chased him and pulled his gun, and the shot, accidental or not, would not have gone off, therefore the kid would not have died!!!! That is the whole point I am trying to get across.

Any time something happens that involves police, everyone tries to shit on the cops, but they don't look at the fact that there were actions that lead to the final result. If the kid would have just stopped then the officer wouldn't have pulled his gun, and the kid wouldn't have died. I'm not saying it was justified or incorrect, just stating the facts that are clearly laid infront of us.

[glassuser]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
The innocent 15yr old that you speak of, committed a felony by not stopping! No he didn't. The officer was off duty and not legally able to place someone under arrest unless he actually witnessed a crime. You can't evade arrest if you're not under arrest (and no, citizens arrest does not work that way).Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
I'm not saying it was justified or incorrect, just stating the facts that are clearly laid infront of us. Other facts clearly laid in front of us are that the officer had his finger on the trigger when he shouldn't have (if he was prepared to fire, it would have been justified), and was trying to climb into vehicles in the middle of a street.

[CheeseFrog]

If the cop would have done his job properly this type of thing wouldn't have happened. The cop is clearly in the wrong here. 1) He left his post. 2) He had his finger ON the trigger (that's a whole new can of worms too). 3) If he was trying to stop them for theft... where's all the stolen property?

It's akin to confronting a stranger who is walking up to your front door, and instead of asking him what he wants, you whip out your gun and chase after him. And you continue to chase him OFF your property (off the AMC30 grounds) and then shoot and kill him. Good luck trying to explain that one to the judge.

[fhpengine-ering]

I GOT CARJACKED BY A 15 YR OLD KID WITH A GUN. DIFFERENT STORY BUT IF THEM KIDS DID SOMETHING THEY DESERVE IT........ NEEDA GROW UP AND LEARN..

AS FAR AS THE COPS GOE THEY ARE TOO FUCKEN TRIGGER HAPPY THEY NEED TO EARN THE RIGHT TO USE REAL BULLETS... STUPIDASSES

[speeddemon]

theres an expert on this topic just like every other topic on this board...
i now withdraw myself from this topic and leave it to the experts :rolleyes:

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
If the cop would have done his job properly this type of thing wouldn't have happened. The cop is clearly in the wrong here. 1) He left his post. 2) He had his finger ON the trigger (that's a whole new can of worms too). 3) If he was trying to stop them for theft... where's all the stolen property?

It's akin to confronting a stranger who is walking up to your front door, and instead of asking him what he wants, you whip out your gun and chase after him. And you continue to chase him OFF your property (off the AMC30 grounds) and then shoot and kill him. Good luck trying to explain that one to the judge.

1) On an extra job, you whole purpose in being there is presence. So you are not assigned to a post!

2) The finger on the trigger deal is true, but like someone said earlier, what if the kid trying to take off,jerked the officer's hand which in turn caused him to pull the trigger?

3) He was not trying to stop them for theft, no where in the story does it say that, no where in my reply's does it say that! It does say that there has been alot of burglaries in the area, and the cop saw something suspicious. There is no law saying that a peace officer can not investigate suspicious activity.

In regards to you last comment/rebuttle, it makes no sense to argue this point, we were not there, we do not know if he asked them to stop, or chased after them. I think our main debate was in regards to the fact that the kid was innocent.


Glausser, you are a peace officer 24 hrs a day, 365 days a year, so you can arrest someone any time you like, you can investigate something suspicious any time you like. The only thing you can't do while you're off duty is pull misdemeanor traffic ie speeding, dwi, etc, pretty much all traffic offenses.

The officer was off duty and not legally able to place someone under arrest unless he actually witnessed a crime. You can't evade arrest if you're not under arrest (and no, citizens arrest does not work that way).

The officer can place someone under arrest anytime, as he is a sworn peace officer in the state of Texas, and as earlier stated is sworn to the state. The officer didn't witness anything, true, no one ever said he did. The facts that were stated were that there had been alot of burglaries and the vehicle was suspiciouse (wouldn't a SUV circling a parkinglot where there are alot of car burglaries look like he was perhaps casing the property?). The officer's intention was not to place the subject under arrest, but to investigate what he was doing. The officer was trying to detain him, that's the same charge, it's listed as evading arrest/detention. Go look it up if you don't believe me.

I'm not an expert, but I do know alot about the law

[CBowi3]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
Poor cop... there goes his job.

same thing i was thinkin...

[TBird96H]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed


2) The finger on the trigger deal is true, but like someone said earlier, what if the kid trying to take off,jerked the officer's hand which in turn caused him to pull the trigger?



well if the fuckin cop did that, the kid wouldn't have gotten shot, now would he? exactly....

[RealLive]

you guys are taking specvspeed's views too seriously, he's just being skeptical about the whole situation because not all of the details are known

[MBGTO]

well, all this is nice and good, but like my friend whos a police officer says, you bash and hate cops, but who is the first person you call to get your ass out of trouble you cant get out of that you probally caused in the first place??? POLICE! im done wasting breath on yall people that have no idea of the law, but you see a different side when you have close friends who are police officers.....

[YAMADUDE]

Ok, fuck this BS about the cop following proceedures. Its a known fact that cops are suppose to work together. This cop acted alone. Instead of chasing down and killing a 15 year old, he should have put an APB out on the SUV. Fucking cop went too far. Thats a pointless loss of life and a worthless cop.

[YAMADUDE]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
well, all this is nice and good, but like my friend whos a police officer says, you bash and hate cops, but who is the first person you call to get your ass out of trouble you cant get out of that you probally caused in the first place??? POLICE!


No one called the cops in this case. So your point is worthless.

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
well, all this is nice and good, but like my friend whos a police officer says, you bash and hate cops, but who is the first person you call to get your ass out of trouble you cant get out of that you probally caused in the first place???
Where exactly did you see people bashing cops? Quote it... And to answer your question: My lawyer.

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
Where exactly did you see people bashing cops? Quote it... And to answer your question: My lawyer.

ok, this is the cop friend he is talking about, so tell me this bud, when you car is getting broke into, or hmmm, your getting the shit beat out of you, you call your lawyer, cool, im sure he will help you tremendously, at least you'll know what your COULD charge the guy with if you ever catch him....ill remember that when im making a call to your house.....

NoQuicky while you're point is valid, the reason in saying that is due to the fact that everyone is so quick to bash cops. When they go to jail for street racing or get a ticket, it's stupid cops this and that, but in the end it's done for the saftey of innocent people against YOUR ignorance. Keep in mind if YOU weren't violating the law, then you wouldn't have been stopped or issued a citation. Even in the thread about the HPD officer that killed himself, before it was a confirmed suicide, people were saying that he deserved it? That's just in bad taste and morals. It's not right, because those very same people will be calling the police the instant that their neighbors have a loud party, or a barking dog, or wake up to find their car is gone or broken into. The point im gettin at is everyone is quick to bash the police, but you bring upon the problems yourself. If theres no suspicion to stop, there would be no problem......And the kid (TURD) broke the law when he ran(felony) since it was in a vehicle, was driving without a license, probally wasnt authorized to use the vehicle(Unauthorized use of veh)wow, another felony, wreckless driving for hoping that curb into the roadway, man i can go on, trust me, he broke the law, and while maybe didnt deserve what he got, he BROUGHT IT ALL UPON HIMSELF, it was simple, stop, let the officer conduct his investigation for the suspicious activity, call the parents, turn the vehicle and juvenile over to them and get back to what you were doing, but he insisted on running...ok, ive ranted enough, none of yall will ever get it cause you not in that situatuion everyday.....but one day you will need us and we will still be there....have a good one

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
So? Last time I checked, that doesn't carry the death penalty.

whos to say the kid would nt of kept running and hit with his big ass suv some pedestrians on the side walk.....or a family in a little car or somethin.

my dads a poilice officer and i was almost enrolled in the police academy so i know a little about the law

point one. the cop had every right to stop the kid
point 2. the kid ran. 99 percent of the time that means thier drunk/under the influence of a narcotic/ or are doing something illegal.
point 3. WHEN A COP HAS HIS WEOPON DRAWN ON U. WHETHER HIS FINGER IS ON THE TRIGGER OR NOT. IF U DISOBEY HIS DIRECT COMMANDS HE IS NOT AT FAULT FOR DISCHARGING HIS WEOPON.
point4. a cop is trained to protect his life first in all situations. he ran up on the car. not uncommon practise. he put himself in the car. again not uncommon practise. the kid hit the gas. maybe the cop thought the kid was trying to run him over......or was going to hit an innocent civilian. my point is the cop did nothing against policy in this situation. first rule of a chase. IF THERE IS A WAY TO END THE PERSUIT WITH NO TO LITTLE RISK TO INNOCENT PEOPLE DO IT. who knows how long this kid would have panicked and ran. if he would have killed someone innocent even on this forum then would u be blaming the cop for not doing anything to stop this kid from running?

u guys need to grow the fuck up and realize that this cop shot this kid to protect everyone in houston that night. it would have been nice if he would have shot him in the arm or leg.....but hes trained to end a chase by any means necessary not to put the public in danger

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by glassuser
No he didn't. The officer was off duty and not legally able to place someone under arrest unless he actually witnessed a crime. You can't evade arrest if you're not under arrest (and no, citizens arrest does not work that way).


hey dumbass. a cop can arrest u at any time. it doesnt matter that they are on the clock or in uniform. any time a cop sees something suspicious it is thier duty to investigate.

lol. thanks for the good laugh. i needed that

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by noquicky123
Ok, fuck this BS about the cop following proceedures. Its a known fact that cops are suppose to work together. This cop acted alone. Instead of chasing down and killing a 15 year old, he should have put an APB out on the SUV. Fucking cop went too far. Thats a pointless loss of life and a worthless cop.

i guess it would have been more justice if this kid took off from this scene and struck and killed a memeber of ur family. then how would u feel?

honestly tell me how u would feel if u knew this cop had a chance to end this chase in the parking lot area. but instead held back so the kid could become a danger to everyone. think about what ur saying. jesus christ this cop did nothing out of procedure.

THIS FUCKING PUNK....WHETHER DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL OR NOT BECAME A HUGE THREAT TO EVERYONE ON THE RAOD THAT NIGHT. U THINK HE WAS GOING TO TRY AND GET AWAY FOLLOWING THE SPEED LIMIT AND USING HIS BLINKERS? OPEN UR FUCKING EYES........OH WAIT.....U WOULDNT BE ABLE TO SEE FROM THE COPS POINT OF VIEW CAUSE THE KID DIDNT KILL ANYONE.

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
ok, this is the cop friend he is talking about, so tell me this bud, when you car is getting broke into, or hmmm, your getting the shit beat out of you, you call your lawyer, cool, im sure he will help you tremendously, at least you'll know what your COULD charge the guy with if you ever catch him....ill remember that when im making a call to your house.....
Cry me a river. If you think your job is so dangerous, get another job. It's not rocket science.

Still waiting on the quote where I'm bashing cops.

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
whos to say the kid would nt of kept running and hit with his big ass suv some pedestrians on the side walk.....or a family in a little car or somethin.
LOL yeah, that's gonna fly in court. ROFL!!! Keep em coming!

4. a cop is trained to protect his life first in all situations. he ran up on the car. not uncommon practise. he put himself in the car. again not uncommon practise. the kid hit the gas. maybe the cop thought the kid was trying to run him over......
Oh god, not the "He tried to run me over" defense. Please, that's soooo overused. I'm surprised it wasn't tossed into the argument earlier though. But I'm glad that you've determined that the murder was completely justified, because the investigators have deemed it an "accident" so far. Maybe you can go down there and tell them what the real deal is, huh?

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

its too bad most of the people critizising this cop dont have the balls enough the put thier life on the line so everyone on this fucking forum can be safe. fuck it. lets not let cops use thier judgement.......tonight on cnn news. a bunch of cars were stolen in houston but the cops arent allowed to pursue the people they think are behind it.......so they just let them go........in other news.,......some of the thiefs running from the scene kill a car of teens from a local car club.......but cops arent allowed to stop people running from them so the people of houston are just going to have to get used to the fact that every time they drive on the road they have a bunch of crazy people commiting crime running from the law on the road they have to watch out for.

damn. its a good thing i dont live in houston. cause some of u guys make me sick

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog

LOL yeah, that's gonna fly in court. ROFL!!! Keep em coming!


ur not understanding that the cops are protecting ur fucking ass when they shot this kid. jesus christ. would u have been happy if the cop let this kid speed off? if u say yes then that means ur putting a kid scared and confused on the road to potentionally kill someone.


Oh god, not the "He tried to run me over" defense. Please, that's soooo overused. I'm surprised it wasn't tossed into the argument earlier though. But I'm glad that you've determined that the murder was completely justified, because the investigators have deemed it an "accident" so far. Maybe you can go down there and tell them what the real deal is, huh?


my point is that u dont know what would have happened if the cop would have let him go. and u dont know any more than i do about what EXACTLY went down that night. all i now more than u is the way police officers are trained to deal with escalating situations. he made a judgement call because he thought that letting this kid go would put innocent people in risk. AND LETTING THIS KID GO WOULD HAVE 100 PERCENT PUT INNOCENT PEOPLE IN DANGER. do u disagreee that letting him go would have put people in danger? YES OR NO? thats all i wanna know [/B]

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog

But I'm glad that you've determined that the murder was completely justified, because the investigators have deemed it an "accident" so far. [/B]

oh...and by the way it wasnt a murder. no one has stood trial. u ever heard of innocent untill proven guilty?

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
i guess it would have been more justice if this kid took off from this scene and struck and killed a memeber of ur family. then how would u feel?
Speculation and conjecture. You plan on holding any water with that bucket full of holes, do you?

honestly tell me how u would feel if u knew this cop had a chance to end this chase in the parking lot area. but instead held back so the kid could become a danger to everyone. think about what ur saying. jesus christ this cop did nothing out of procedure.
Holy fucking shit... he "accidentally" shot an unarmed child! There's nothing out of procedure about that?!?

THIS FUCKING PUNK....WHETHER DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL OR NOT BECAME A HUGE THREAT TO EVERYONE ON THE RAOD THAT NIGHT. U THINK HE WAS GOING TO TRY AND GET AWAY FOLLOWING THE SPEED LIMIT AND USING HIS BLINKERS? OPEN UR FUCKING EYES........OH WAIT.....U WOULDNT BE ABLE TO SEE FROM THE COPS POINT OF VIEW CAUSE THE KID DIDNT KILL ANYONE. He apparently WAS trying to get away not breaking any traffic laws. Did he rush up onto the sidewalk to avoid traffic? No. Did he cut into oncoming traffic lanes? No. So I guess there goes your whole argument, smart guy.

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
oh...and by the way it wasnt a murder. no one has stood trial. u ever heard of innocent untill proven guilty?
Yup. Apparently that "cop" hasn't though.

[CheeseFrog]

he made a judgement call because he thought that letting this kid go would put innocent people in risk. AND LETTING THIS KID GO WOULD HAVE 100 PERCENT PUT INNOCENT PEOPLE IN DANGER. do u disagreee that letting him go would have put people in danger? YES OR NO? thats all i wanna know
I guess I'm wrong then. The cop is a hero and deserves a raise and medal or something. Job well done. Who knows what would have happened if that unarmed child had gotten away. He may have cruised through another parking lot with his music blaring.

Quit trying to defend lousy cops. This guy is proof that even the bad guys slip through once in a while and earn a badge.

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

ur not understanding that speculation is what cops have to do. its part of thier job. thats why when people run after being pulled over for running a stop sign or not using thier blinker are spun out. there have been plenty of cases where police officers have rammed suspects evading them and hurt them. they sued the police station and lost every time cuase COPS ARE TRAINED TO STOP CHASES. otherwise innocent people are put in danger.

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog

Speculation and conjecture. You plan on holding any water with that bucket full of holes, do you?



yes. thats all a cop needs is a reason to think that people are in danger to shoot someone. the kid by running is putting innocent people in danger. if u cant see that then u my friend are IGNORANT
[/b]


Holy fucking shit... he "accidentally" shot an unarmed child! There's nothing out of procedure about that?!?




he shot someone.....child or not, becuase they were putting people like u in danger



He apparently WAS trying to get away not breaking any traffic laws. Did he rush up onto the sidewalk to avoid traffic? No. Did he cut into oncoming traffic lanes? No. So I guess there goes your whole argument, smart guy.



ur telling me that this kid if he would have kept running wouldnt have broken any traffic laws. that has to be the dumbest thing ive ever heard. who runs from the cops at the speed limit.....while not reckless driving? NO ONE [/B]

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
I guess I'm wrong then. The cop is a hero and deserves a raise and medal or something. Job well done. Who knows what would have happened if that unarmed child had gotten away. He may have cruised through another parking lot with his music blaring.


or could be scoping out more parking lot. u dont know 4 100 percent this kid didnt have illegal plans for that night sostop defending him



Quit trying to defend lousy cops. This guy is proof that even the bad guys slip through once in a while and earn a badge.



and stop defending someone who might or might not have been ripping off cars.

no cop feels good after shooting someone. especially a kid. unfortunatley thats part of thier job. and the number one job of a police officer is to protect and serve the public. and thats what he did. the kid forced this cop to shoot him cause if hte cop would have stepped down who knows what would have happened. then the cop would be in more trouble when a family memeber of the person this kid could have killed sued the police station.

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
he shot someone.....child or not, becuase they were putting people like u in danger
Really? He was going to drive over to my house and run me over while I was busy working on my websites? Wow, I never knew that... I think I'm going to need some grief counceling now.

ur telling me that this kid if he would have kept running wouldnt have broken any traffic laws. that has to be the dumbest thing ive ever heard. who runs from the cops at the speed limit.....while not reckless driving? NO ONE
OJ & AC? Wake up and smell reality... You're living in paranoia. Not everybody out there is a criminal that's going to commit a crime/traffic violation/whatever as soon as that red light turns green. Last time I checked, people who are "running" from the law don't stop for traffic and red lights like this kid was.

no cop feels good after shooting someone. especially a kid. unfortunatley thats part of thier job.
Well if what you say is true, this cop should fell great! He should be on top of the world! He's a hero who saved the world from this kid who might have gone on to drive 10mph over the limit (doubtful in Westheimer weekend gridlock), and might have come over to my house and run me over while I was working on my websites... and might have created "laser" to destroy the world.

[grnlude97]

I SAW THIS LAST NIGHT! I drove by there after it happened and I'm going to have to say killing the kid is a bit much. Fact is he was running from the cop onto the most cop invested street in Houston. I mean seriously, that kid wasn't going to make it very far trying to run from the cops. I hate theives more than anything and they should all die horrible deaths but this was a 15 year old kid! I feel sorry for both parties involved because I can only imagine the remorse that cop is probably feeling right now.

Daniel :./

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by grnlude97
I feel sorry for both parties involved because I can only imagine the remorse that cop is probably feeling right now.
Remorse nothing! According to FLSPEC-VRACER18, that cop should be celebrating and popping champagne bottles right now. The guy is a veritable hero who saved humanity from all kinds of 15yr old kids who cruise slowly through parking lots.
:roflmao:

[grnlude97]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
Remorse nothing! According to FLSPEC-VRACER18, that cop should be celebrating and popping champagne bottles right now. The guy is a veritable hero who saved humanity from all kinds of 15yr old kids who cruise slowly through parking lots.
:roflmao:

Um yeah FLSPEC-VRACER18 is all-knowing. I had no idea. What was I thinking? :duh: :confused:

I'm sorry but if I was running from the cops, Westheimer is probably the last street I would go for. The cop already had everything. Description, license plate and location. Pretty senseless killing.

Daniel :)

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
Remorse nothing! According to FLSPEC-VRACER18, that cop should be celebrating and popping champagne bottles right now. The guy is a veritable hero who saved humanity from all kinds of 15yr old kids who cruise slowly through parking lots.
:roflmao:

and according to cheesefrog this kid was just crouising the parking lot blaring his music and he was inconvenienced by this prick cop.....and then when he ran from the cop.....that mother fucker shot him becuase he gets off on killling kids. jesus christ. u think this cop had fun shooting this kid?

let put u in charge of the police force......and lets see how many innocent peoples life who had nothing to do with this kid deciding to run get put in jeopardy cause u wanna give this kid the benefit of the doubt.

if ur a cop u cant give anyone the benefit of the doubt

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by grnlude97
Um yeah FLSPEC-VRACER18 is all-knowing. I had no idea. What was I thinking? :duh: :confused:

I'm sorry but if I was running from the cops, Westheimer is probably the last street I would go for. The cop already had everything. Description, license plate and location. Pretty senseless killing.

Daniel :)

why cant anyone understand that running from the cops is not only a felony......but it also puts innocent peoples life in danger. it doesnt matter if ur 15 or 65. u run from a cop be prepared to pay the price. cause the cop has to do his job of keeping u hippies safe

[CheeseFrog]

FLSPEC-VRACER18, let's let the courts decide who was in the wrong here. My money is on the cop who was in the wrong. I got $50 that says the cop will NOT get a promotion, commendation, or medal for this one. In fact, I think in the best-case scenario, he'll be sitting at a desk pushing paper for the rest of his LE career.

My PayPal address is cheezefrog@aol.com. Let's keep an eye on how this case turns out. You can wire me the funds when I win.

[MBGTO]

Cheesefrog, you seem like the typical TURD who belongs with the rest on the street. This wasnt a CHILD, it was a little SHIT who had no respect for the law and whether he deserved it or not, HE BROUGHT IT UPON HIMSELF, how hard is that for you to fucking understand. Your the same kind of shit that is issued a citation for something YOUVE done wrong and complains because the police officer DID HIS SWORN DUTY.....man you make me sick....HARD HEADED, and im not crying about my job, i love it. I just get pleasure out of seeing hardasses like yourself pick up the phone and call US assholes to your house to fix a problem in 10min which took you 6months to deteriorate.

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by grnlude97
I hate theives more than anything and they should all die horrible deaths but this was a 15 year old kid!
Daniel :./

prove to me right here right now that this kid wasnt a thief and it still wont make a difference. he ran from an officer who had a gun pointed at him to POTENTIALLY save peoples life that were on the road. i might not have shot the kid.......BUT the fact is this cop did nothing out of procedure. my point is this cop wont be in alot of trouble for this. cause cops are trained to use a level of force. and they are trained they can go 1 step above the force the other person is using. this kid is driving a moving 4000 lb weopon. so the cop used enough force to compensate for the kid taking off. forget about this kids age for a secong. that has nothing to do with it. would u be arguing with me right now if he was 33?

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
Cheesefrog, you seem like the typical TURD who belongs with the rest on the street. This wasnt a CHILD, it was a little SHIT who had no respect for the law and whether he deserved it or not, HE BROUGHT IT UPON HIMSELF, how hard is that for you to fucking understand. Your the same kind of shit that is issued a citation for something YOUVE done wrong and complains because the police officer DID HIS SWORN DUTY.....man you make me sick....HARD HEADED, and im not crying about my job, i love it. I just get pleasure out of seeing hardasses like yourself pick up the phone and call US assholes to your house to fix a problem in 10min which took you 6months to deteriorate.
Like I said... let's let the judge or jury decide this one. I got $50 that says the cop was WRONG. If the courts decide that the kid did indeed bring it upon himself, and the cop ends up being a hero for it, I'll wire you $50. Put your money where your mouth is. My Paypal acct is cheezefrog@aol.com. What's yours?

Edit: Why is it that you think I'm bashing legitimate cops? I'm bashing the BAD ones who have no business wearing a badge. It's good to see that LE officers such as yourself are non-judgemental and don't categorize people. *cough* Careful there, your true colors are showing.

[grnlude97]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
why cant anyone understand that running from the cops is not only a felony......but it also puts innocent peoples life in danger. it doesnt matter if ur 15 or 65. u run from a cop be prepared to pay the price. cause the cop has to do his job of keeping u hippies safe

Unless the kid was armed with a firearm he wasn't putting anyone in mortal danger. Sorry man. With your rational there would be no need for police chases. Just give cops M16's or rocketlaunchers so they can blast away at the fleeing vehicle. Hell, they're running from the cops so they must be obliterated. I mean seriously consider how flawed your view is on this and realize that death is permanent.

Daniel :./

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
FLSPEC-VRACER18, let's let the courts decide who was in the wrong here. My money is on the cop who was in the wrong. I got $50 that says the cop will NOT get a promotion, commendation, or medal for this one. In fact, I think in the best-case scenario, he'll be sitting at a desk pushing paper for the rest of his LE career.

My PayPal address is cheezefrog@aol.com. Let's keep an eye on how this case turns out. You can wire me the funds when I win.

and i bet u 100 dollars that this cop will not get suspended or fired.

why the fuck would he get a medal he killed someone. believe it or not thats what cops hate to do the most. but he was only doing his job. why are u thinking im praising this guy for killing someone? im not. im simply stating that the cop was doing his job to protect the innocent.......and no matter what u see on tv.......being a cop is ugly sometimes. he made a split second decision that could have saved lifes....or could have turned out the kid hurt no one. but the cop has to protect us citizens
. bottom line

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
and i bet u 100 dollars that this cop will not get suspended or fired. Your on! What's your Paypal addy?

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by grnlude97
Unless the kid was armed with a firearm he wasn't putting anyone in mortal danger. Sorry man. With your rational there would be no need for police chases. Just give cops M16's or rocketlaunchers so they can blast away at the fleeing vehicle. Hell, they're running from the cops so they must be obliterated. I mean seriously consider how flawed your view is on this and realize that death is permanent.

Daniel :./

YES HE WAS. any time u run from a cop ur 99 percent of the time speeding and reckless driving. do u know how many innocent people have been killed from people running from the law? a hell of a lot. ur right a death of an innocent bystandard would be permanent and more trajic than the way this ended

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
Your on! What's your Paypal addy?

dont have one. i dont purchase online

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
dont have one. i dont purchase online You better get one, because you're going to have to pay up that $100 when the cop gets suspended. You backing out on our bet already?

[grnlude97]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
prove to me right here right now that this kid wasnt a thief and it still wont make a difference. he ran from an officer who had a gun pointed at him to POTENTIALLY save peoples life that were on the road. i might not have shot the kid.......BUT the fact is this cop did nothing out of procedure. my point is this cop wont be in alot of trouble for this. cause cops are trained to use a level of force. and they are trained they can go 1 step above the force the other person is using. this kid is driving a moving 4000 lb weopon. so the cop used enough force to compensate for the kid taking off. forget about this kids age for a secong. that has nothing to do with it. would u be arguing with me right now if he was 33?

They will not have to prove he was a theif. Ironically, it's even irrelavant if he was. You can't just go vigilante killing people.

Horrible reasoning again. Yes I would say the same thing if he was 33 but his age is relavant because he is a minor. My brother is 15 and he is a sophomore in high school. Some people have poor decision skills all their lives so imagine how it is for a 15 year old.

If the cops were to kill off everyone who had the potential to hurt someone or commt a crime, we would all be dead. It doesn't work that way man. Life is not a video game, you do not press start and ressurect. No up up down down left right left right b a select start for 30 lives.

I'm not arguing with you because your argument uses flawed reasoning. I'm all for constructive conversation but this is definately not one.

Daniel :./

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
prove to me right here right now that this kid wasnt a thiefAnd therin lies the entire fallacy of your argument. This is too easy... :D

[grnlude97]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
YES HE WAS. any time u run from a cop ur 99 percent of the time speeding and reckless driving. do u know how many innocent people have been killed from people running from the law? a hell of a lot. ur right a death of an innocent bystandard would be permanent and more trajic than the way this ended

No he was not. You obviously need to reread what I wrote before. Face it man, all of your arguements are based on SPECULATION!

"99% of the time speeding and reckless driving."

"he ran from an officer who had a gun pointed at him to POTENTIALLY save peoples life that were on the road."

None of what your are saying is concrete so how am I suppoed to take your point of view seriously?

Daniel :./

[grnlude97]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
And therin lies the entire fallacy of your argument. This is too easy... :D

I'm impressed cheesefrog :thumb:

Daniel :)

[CheeseFrog]

grnlude, don't bother. FLSPEC's story keeps changing whenever it's convenient for him. First it was "NOBODY goes the speed limit when they're running from the law." And now it's "Well ok maybe not NOBODY, but 99% break the speed limit." Before it was "The cop was totally right and was just doing his job" and now it's changed to "he must feel terrible for accidentally killing (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2196906) that kid!" And just a few posts ago, it was "I bet $100 he doesn't even get suspended" and now it's "Well err.. I don't do online transactions." Where do they get these jokers from anyway? LOL

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
[B]prove to me right here right now that this kid wasnt a thief and it still wont make a difference. he ran from an officer who had a gun pointed at him to POTENTIALLY save peoples life that were on the road


thanks cheese head for taking what i said and twisting it. i said wether he was a thief or not it didnt matter. go back and read my post

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
grnlude, don't bother. FLSPEC's story keeps changing whenever it's convenient for him. First it was "NOBODY goes the speed limit when they're running from the law." And now it's "Well ok maybe not NOBODY, but 99% break the speed limit." Before it was "The cop was totally right and was just doing his job" and now it's changed to "he must feel terrible for accidentally killing (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2196906) that kid!" And just a few posts ago, it was "I bet $100 he doesn't even get suspended" and now it's "Well err.. I don't do online transactions." Where do they get these jokers from anyway? LOL

ok. to prove u wrong i will go as soon as i can and open a paypal account. and ive not waivered my statements. my original post was saying that the cop was only doing what he thought was right. and he wasnt doing anything that other cops and his police chief would view as wrong. yes it trajic....but this kid brought it on himself

[grnlude97]

Haha ok Cheesefrog, Ima try one last time....

Since you say they him being a theif is irrelavant (which it is), then you're saying the cop is justified in killing him for fleeing. Just imagine what would happen if cops could kill everyone that ran. "Well he didn't pull over fast enough so I shot him 12 times. Shouldn't have been running from me." Haven't you ever seen the show "Cops?" It would be called "Yo dead" if cops were to kill everyone who flees. It simply doesn't work that way. Now I can honestly say you are WRONG. I was waiting for you to make a good argument but that never materialized so go find something else to "argue" about.

Daniel :)

BTW if the cop was TRYING to kill him he probably would have shot twice since that's how they are trained using the "double-tap" method. It seems to me like an accidental discharge but we'll find out soon enough (assuming he doesn't lie).

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by grnlude97
Haha ok Cheesefrog, Ima try one last time....

Since you say they him being a theif is irrelavant (which it is), then you're saying the cop is justified in killing him for fleeing. Just imagine what would happen if cops could kill everyone that ran. "Well he didn't pull over fast enough so I shot him 12 times. Shouldn't have been running from me." Haven't you ever seen the show "Cops?" It would be called "Yo dead" if cops were to kill everyone who flees. It simply doesn't work that way. Now I can honestly say you are WRONG. I was waiting for you to make a good argument but that never materialized so go find something else to "argue" about.

Daniel :)

shot him 12 times would be intentional murder. ur blowing thing out of proportion. he shot once to slow the guy or stop him. cops dont have the luxery of being able to convienently shoot people with good enough aim that they can stop them from moving without dying.

and i never said cops should shoot everyone that flees. i pointed out that cops have the right to exercise that judgement if they think its warranted......thats why alot of chases end up with the people running getting hurt by the police cause they will use tactics like ramming them to stop them.

it seems all ur arguements are based on ur point of view. not facts. im simply stating facts that u dont agree with so u come up with exceptions and blow things out of proportion.

also....try walking up to a cop with a cap gun and see if he tells u with a gun pointed to ur head to stop moving. if u dont stop moving hes going to shoot u. would the cop get a medal like cheese head thinks thats what i want? no. but will the cop be repremanded? hell no.

if u run from a cop u have to realize that u are putting ur life in the cops hand. and at any time a cop has the right to end a chase with as little harm to the public as possible.

lets put this another way. my dad has to sit up in the rec tower at work when the inmates are outside in the courtyard. if an inmate tries to escape over the wall he has every right to shoot them. some cops will shoot at the inmates. but the one time it happened to my dad he chose to instead alert people that an inmate was going over the wall to apprehend him. he never fired a shot. the inmate was caught. BUT if the inmate wasnt caught, and the person commited another crime my dad could have been held responsible for not stopping the inmate from escaping.

if u were in the rec tower with a rifle and able to shoot the inmate trying to escape...or let him go and hope u will catch him later and he wont hurt anone what would u and cheese head do? please answer this question. im interested to know what u guys would do

[grnlude97]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
shot him 12 times would be intentional murder. ur blowing thing out of proportion. he shot once to slow the guy or stop him. cops dont have the luxery of being able to convienently shoot people with good enough aim that they can stop them from moving without dying.

and i never said cops should shoot everyone that flees. i pointed out that cops have the right to exercise that judgement if they think its warranted......thats why alot of chases end up with the people running getting hurt by the police cause they will use tactics like ramming them to stop them.

it seems all ur arguements are based on ur point of view. not facts. im simply stating facts that u dont agree with so u come up with exceptions and blow things out of proportion.

also....try walking up to a cop with a cap gun and see if he tells u with a gun pointed to ur head to stop moving. if u dont stop moving hes going to shoot u. would the cop get a medal like cheese head thinks thats what i want? no. but will the cop be repremanded? hell no.

if u run from a cop u have to realize that u are putting ur life in the cops hand. and at any time a cop has the right to end a chase with as little harm to the public as possible.

lets put this another way. my dad has to sit up in the rec tower at work when the inmates are outside in the courtyard. if an inmate tries to escape over the wall he has every right to shoot them. some cops will shoot at the inmates. but the one time it happened to my dad he chose to instead alert people that an inmate was going over the wall to apprehend him. he never fired a shot. the inmate was caught. BUT if the inmate wasnt caught, and the person commited another crime my dad could have been held responsible for not stopping the inmate from escaping.

if u were in the rec tower with a rifle and able to shoot the inmate trying to escape...or let him go and hope u will catch him later and he wont hurt anone what would u and cheese head do? please answer this question. im interested to know what u guys would do

Dude, I already won.

Daniel :)

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by grnlude97
Dude, I already won.

Daniel :)

stop being a child and answer my question. what would u do if u were in that situation i just asked u?

and grow up. i thought i was having a debate......not a juvinile dick measuring contest

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by grnlude97
Haha ok Cheesefrog, Ima try one last time....

Since you say they him being a theif is irrelavant (which it is), then you're saying the cop is justified in killing him for fleeing. Just imagine what would happen if cops could kill everyone that ran. "Well he didn't pull over fast enough so I shot him 12 times. Shouldn't have been running from me." Haven't you ever seen the show "Cops?" It would be called "Yo dead" if cops were to kill everyone who flees. It simply doesn't work that way. Now I can honestly say you are WRONG. I was waiting for you to make a good argument but that never materialized so go find something else to "argue" about.

Daniel :)

BTW if the cop was TRYING to kill him he probably would have shot twice since that's how they are trained using the "double-tap" method. It seems to me like an accidental discharge but we'll find out soon enough (assuming he doesn't lie).

I'm watching this on the news now. He tried to ram several officers according to the news, that would be Assault with a dealdly weapon. And you guys that say the kid was murdered, FYI, murder is premeditated. If the kid would have just stopped like the police had yelled for him to do, then he wouldn't have been shot! The vehicle was lunging forward when the shot was fired. I think it was warranted, if someone was coming at me with a vehicle, I would shoot their ass! What would you do?

We're having a debate here, and as FlSpec stated, most of the rebuttles are based on your opinions, while ours are based on proven facts, either supported by law, or proven tactics.

And about the index on the gaurd deal, well you try that and have something hit your hand. In a situation like that you're not going to put pressure on the gaurd, you're going to place it there, so you can quickly fire if warranted. Try this, put your right hand out and bump the inside of your forearm, tell me that it wouldn't fire a shot. It will. If the kid would have stopped and not broken the law he wouldn't be dead, plain and simple. The cops would have called his parents to come and pick him up, because it's too much trouble to take him to juvenile hall just for driving without a license.

[grnlude97]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
stop being a child and answer my question. what would u do if u were in that situation i just asked u?

and grow up. i thought i was having a debate......not a juvinile dick measuring contest

OMG If I must and only because I'm wide awake.

You have absolutely no facts. I will now destroy your attempt at an arguement in a super long post. Have fun reading this...

any time u run from a cop ur 99 percent of the time speeding and reckless driving

Ok Mr. Facts can you please tell me where you located this statistic. This is a rhetorical question BTW. Oh wait I found another good one...

point 2. the kid ran. 99 percent of the time that means thier drunk/under the influence of a narcotic/ or are doing something illegal.

So not only was he going to POSSIBLY, MAYBE, PERHAPS speed and drive recklessly but he was also drunk and high and doing "something else illegal." Hahaha why am I typing this post again?

point 3. WHEN A COP HAS HIS WEOPON DRAWN ON U. WHETHER HIS FINGER IS ON THE TRIGGER OR NOT. IF U DISOBEY HIS DIRECT COMMANDS HE IS NOT AT FAULT FOR DISCHARGING HIS WEOPON.

Actually cops are supposed to keep their fingers OFF the trigger. And if he accidentally shoots you um it IS his fault. Also when police officers shoot at someone, they are trained to shoot twice.

and i never said cops should shoot everyone that flees.

No you didn't say that verbatim but you DID use fleeing as the motive for the murder. You justified killing by the kid fleeing.

i pointed out that cops have the right to exercise that judgement if they think its warranted......thats why alot of chases end up with the people running getting hurt by the police cause they will use tactics like ramming them to stop themand i never said cops should shoot everyone that flees.

Thanks for inadvertently helping my case BTW. You say that some people get hurt when cops try to end chases but you never see the cops shooting at fleeing vehicles like an old western movie. It doesn't happen that way. It's called using reasonable force and that explains what cops do not shoot at fleeing criminals even if they are a danger to the public.

I more than rest my case to your worthless crap of an argument. Of course I stated my point of view, this is a conversation right? You unforunately attempted to justify your flawed reasoning with even more flawed "facts" and just plain wrong assumptions.

Have a good day.

Daniel :)

[grnlude97]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
I'm watching this on the news now. He tried to ram several officers according to the news, that would be Assault with a dealdly weapon. And you guys that say the kid was murdered, FYI, murder is premeditated. If the kid would have just stopped like the police had yelled for him to do, then he wouldn't have been shot! The vehicle was lunging forward when the shot was fired. I think it was warranted, if someone was coming at me with a vehicle, I would shoot their ass! What would you do?

We're having a debate here, and as FlSpec stated, most of the rebuttles are based on your opinions, while ours are based on proven facts, either supported by law, or proven tactics.

And about the index on the gaurd deal, well you try that and have something hit your hand. In a situation like that you're not going to put pressure on the gaurd, you're going to place it there, so you can quickly fire if warranted. Try this, put your right hand out and bump the inside of your forearm, tell me that it wouldn't fire a shot. It will. If the kid would have stopped and not broken the law he wouldn't be dead, plain and simple. The cops would have called his parents to come and pick him up, because it's too much trouble to take him to juvenile hall just for driving without a license.

Yaaaaaaayy yet another lost soul. Why don't your read my last post before you are so confident in backing FLSPEC and his awesome "facts."

Daniel :)

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by grnlude97
Yaaaaaaayy yet another lost soul. Why don't your read my last post before you are so confident in backing FLSPEC and his awesome "facts."

Daniel :)

O.K., and where do you work at?? I though so, I've been in law enforcement for 2 years now. True, not so long, but long enough to know what I'm talking about! I've checked my side in books, and personal stories. I have different point's that Fl Spec, cause he lives in Florida, we live in Texas, different laws.

[grnlude97]

Oh BTW, I passed RIGHT by the scene last night when it happened. The kid was in traffic on Dunvale at the light on Westheimer on a friday night. TRAFFIC, as in he wasn't going anywhere. Or maybe you've never been on Westheimer on a Friday night.

Daniel :)

[Tayman]

boy there are definetly a bunch of dickheads on this site....

Commit a felony, pay the price with your life. Sounds like a great way of stopping criminals.. Fuck due process and rights, that isn't necessary. :thumb:

Isn't street racing a felony now?

I think it would be great if we were all gunned down after being caught street racing, what do you think?

:thumb:

/sarcasm

**If the car was actually heading toward the cop, then it was justified....but most likely it wasn't.**

[grnlude97]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
O.K., and where do you work at?? I though so, I've been in law enforcement for 2 years now. True, not so long, but long enough to know what I'm talking about! I've checked my side in books, and personal stories. I have different point's that Fl Spec, cause he lives in Florida, we live in Texas, different laws.

Well first off my job is irrelavent. And you clearly backed FLSPEC, need I quote you yet AGAIN!? You consulted your personal stories? :roflmao: I want you to quote me the law book that justifies killing someone for fleeing. Try me :) And if you want to tell me the cop was acting in self defense (cause I see this one coming) because the kid was gonna run him over, well the cop put himself in that position. Bottom line is there was another way to handle this and the kid could be alive and facing the consequences for his actions. Oh did I mention he was a minor? I give up.

Daniel :)

[grnlude97]

Originally posted by Tayman
boy there are definetly a bunch of dickheads on this site....

Commit a felony, pay the price with your life. Sounds like a great way of stopping criminals.. Fuck due process and rights, that isn't necessary. :thumb:

Isn't street racing a felony now?

I think it would be great if we were all gunned down after being caught street racing, what do you think?

:thumb:

/sarcasm

**If the car was actually heading toward the cop, then it was justified....but most likely it wasn't.**

I think "dickheads" is a really mild adjective. I admire your kindness haha.

I believe street racing is a class B misdemeanor if I'm not mistaken :dunno: . I could be wrong so I'll check.

Daniel :)

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by Tayman
boy there are definetly a bunch of dickheads on this site....

Commit a felony, pay the price with your life. Sounds like a great way of stopping criminals.. Fuck due process and rights, that isn't necessary. :thumb:


speeding can be a felony. u wont get shot for that.whats ur point? he was not shot because he commited a felony. he was shot cause he was disobeying a direct order from a cop with a gun pointed at him. and if what specvspeed said is true about him trying to ram a cop then dont u think the cop should shoot him?

Isn't street racing a felony now?


yes it is. but as long as when the cop is busting u from doing it u dont try and run u wont have to worry about getting dhot or hurt by the cop



I think it would be great if we were all gunned down after being caught street racing, what do you think?


no. it would be a bad idea. what the fuck is ur point? no one was gunned down for street racing. someone was shot cause they disobeyed a direct order and didnt use commen sense when they ran from the police. what does ur analogy have to do with the facts of this case?.....oh wait....they dont have anything to do with it

:thumb:

/sarcasm

**If the car was actually heading toward the cop, then it was justified....but most likely it wasn't.**


damn right. lets just wait a few days to see what really happened. right now its all speculation thats been posted......except for the fact that the police officer...at least in the town i live in where my dads a cop....was not operating outside his job description by shooting a felon trying to escape and putting people in danger. anyone who says this kid running is not putting people in danger is blind and ignorant to this own distorted point of views

[grnlude97]

FLSPEC dude STFU already.

Street racing is NOT a felony, it's a class B misdemeanor. And oh shit, straight from the Texas statutes ...


§ 545.421. Fleeing or Attempting to Elude Police Officer; Offense


(a) A person commits an offense if the person operates a motor vehicle and wilfully fails or refuses to bring the vehicle to a stop or flees, or attempts to elude, a pursuing police vehicle when given a visual or audible signal to bring the vehicle to a stop.



(b) A signal under this section that is given by a police officer pursuing a vehicle may be by hand, voice, emergency light, or siren. The officer giving the signal must be in uniform and prominently display the officer's badge of office. The officer's vehicle must be appropriately marked as an official police vehicle.



(c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), an offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.



(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor if the person, during the commission of the offense, recklessly engages in conduct that places another in imminent danger of serious bodily injury


Damn that sucks for you don't it? Now I'll wait for the other fool to chime in.

Daniel :)

[MBGTO]

Yes, Street racing is a class B. I did not say nor imply that if you commit a felony you should be shot! I was just pointing out the fact that this so called "Innocent" kid had commited a felony.

What you are saying is if there is a cop infront of you with a gun drawn, you will continue towards him? I'm sorry, but that is justified in him firing a shot! I'm not going to keep on repeating myself. The thing that bothered me in all this is that everyone was saying that cops suck and this and that, when he was doing his job. I feel sorry for the kid, he should have thought before he took off, but in situations like that, things happen. He got shot and died, if he would have stopped it wouldn't have happened. I'm not saying that the cop deserves a medal or party, I know plenty of officer's who have had to kill people, it's not an easy thing to do! I imagine that this particular officer feels bad for taking the life of such a young person, but was it warranted? I can't say, I wasn't there. All we have is stories about this and that, and how you DOUBT that he was driving towards the officer. And if he was, you say that he put himself in that position. Well when you're doing a job you have to check out a suspicious vehicle in a high crime area. And when you try to stop him and he speeds towards you with a 4,000 pound vehicle, you must make that decision of rather or not to shoot.

[MBGTO]

O.K., that's why the DA accepts charges on Felony evading all the time?

[MBGTO]

On a lighter not, being gay is a class C misdemeanor, LOL

21.06. Homosexual Conduct



(a) A person commits an offense if he engages in deviate sexual intercourse with another individual of the same sex.



(b) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor.



Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.


:gay:

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

ok. im just going to point out a few facts in this case.

point 1. the cop had a lethal weapon at his disposal. 357 mag/beretta 9mm

the 15 year old kid had a 3500lb lethal weapon at his disposal(suv)

the cop wanted to stop the kid to ask him a few questions. perfectly legal.

kid panicked and ran. for whatever reason. no one knows.

cop went after him. pointed gun at kid and i bet u, told him to stop or hell shoot. cops are trained to say this because firing a weapon is ALWAYS the last resort in a standoff(which this was)

kid attempted to run again. for whatever reason....fear or he was trying to get away.

cop shot 1 bullitt into the car.

the kid no longer had a lethal weapon at his disposal to hurt innocent civilians with.

kid died.


was anything i just said not a fact?


wether the cop shot on purpose to stop this kid from injuring anyone..... (which by the way i just called my dad whos a cop and he said the kid didnt stop when a cop pointed a gun at him, he had a weapon in the suv to hurt people...so the cop did exactly what he was trained to do. protect innocent people.)...or if the cops shot was a mistake cause the kid took off and bumped his hand either way the kid forced the cops hand.


let this be a lesson to anyone who reads this thread. if u are ever approached by a cop u better do what he says. and if a gun is pointed at u by a cop u better not run. cause if u do and get shot it is no ones fault but ur own dumbass fault.

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by grnlude97
FLSPEC dude STFU already.

Street racing is NOT a felony, it's a class B misdemeanor. And oh shit, straight from the Texas statutes ...


§ 545.421. Fleeing or Attempting to Elude Police Officer; Offense


(a) A person commits an offense if the person operates a motor vehicle and wilfully fails or refuses to bring the vehicle to a stop or flees, or attempts to elude, a pursuing police vehicle when given a visual or audible signal to bring the vehicle to a stop.



(b) A signal under this section that is given by a police officer pursuing a vehicle may be by hand, voice, emergency light, or siren. The officer giving the signal must be in uniform and prominently display the officer's badge of office. The officer's vehicle must be appropriately marked as an official police vehicle.



(c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), an offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.



(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor if the person, during the commission of the offense, recklessly engages in conduct that places another in imminent danger of serious bodily injury


Damn that sucks for you don't it? Now I'll wait for the other fool to chime in.

Daniel :)

**The other fool chimes in**

38.04. Evading Arrest or Detention



(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally flees from a person he knows is a peace officer attempting lawfully to arrest or detain him.



(b) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor, except that the offense is:



(1) a state jail felony if the actor uses a vehicle while the actor is in flight and the actor has not been previously convicted under this section;

OH, you didn't to the right place homie, looks like a State Jail Felony straight out of the penal code!

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

oh. and street racing is a felony in the town i live in.

but thats not the point. the point is evading a cop is a felony.

[grnlude97]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
**The other fool chimes in**

38.04. Evading Arrest or Detention



(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally flees from a person he knows is a peace officer attempting lawfully to arrest or detain him.



(b) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor, except that the offense is:



(1) a state jail felony if the actor uses a vehicle while the actor is in flight and the actor has not been previously convicted under this section;

OH, you didn't to the right place homie, looks like a State Jail Felony straight out of the penal code!

Interesting. I always thought it was a felony as well but I happened across the statute while looking for the racing classification. There are listed in the same chapter 545. I wonder why there is a discrepancy. BTW I'd glad you have something constructive to add.

I'm tired now so I'll check this later by which time it'll probably be locked haha.

Daniel :)

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by grnlude97
Oh BTW, I passed RIGHT by the scene last night when it happened. The kid was in traffic on Dunvale at the light on Westheimer on a friday night. TRAFFIC, as in he wasn't going anywhere. Or maybe you've never been on Westheimer on a Friday night.

Daniel :)

exactly my point. thank you for confirming it. this kid was surrounded by innocent people on dunvale and westhiemer. he could have very easily hit any car on the road. would u guys have prefered he hit an innocent person or get shot? cause guess what. being a cop is not like gambling at vegas. u either take control of the situation. or u gamble on people getting hurt if u lose control of the situation

[Flores]

Wow, such drama....

Do they teach officers what I was taught, you don't draw your weapon unless your ready to kill someone...

you don't 'aim to wound' someone... Why would anyone stop for a cop waving a gun at him, if they though, 'ah hell, he can't shoot me, cause then I'm the victim! And even if he does, he will just wing me, I'm tought, I can take it'

While it seems apperent this was an accidental shooting, (ie not an execution, or muder) touchy feely types are always looking for excuses to say someone's rights were violated, because their own actions put them in a bad spot..

Only 15? sorry to hear that. Doesn't excuse the bad judgment, no matter what you may think.

Drivin without a license in mommy's car? Damn, that was stupid.

TRYING TO KILL SOMEONE WHO HAS A GUN STUCK IN THE WINDOW OF MY CAR... Really stupid... if the guy was a carjacker, just let him take the damn thing, ain't worth getting killed over...

It seems to me that anyone who would say the police officer was TOTALY RESPONSIBLE for this kids death is also going to use the same type of logic that says a serial killer is just misunderstood, a victim of society, and just needs therapy...

The cop will probably draw a reprimand, based on the touchy feely crowd's 'FEELINGS' on this matter, and go back to work with a 'let be careful out there'...

Not going to waste time going into hypothetical 'what if situations'. Police officers are trained to deal with situations based on previous experience.

Maybe it's only a loophool, but if a cop is standing with his arm in your vehicle, and you take off, whatever you were pulled over for, even just speeding, you have just attempted the murder of a police officer, which is a captial offence. You CAN get the death penelty for that. That law protecting the lives of police is there based on years of previous experience with people trying to run over cops, or evade justice.

Seems kind of steep penelty for a 15 year old who 'doesn't really know what he is doing'? Bull Shit. If he is out on the streets with me, he should know these things, or stay home. just because so many parent give their kids extended adolesence, and don't teach them responsibility, doesn't mean they shouldn't be held repsonsible for their actions. How else are they going to learn that you MUST be responsible for your own actions, and reap the benifit (or pay the price) for them?

If our sworn officers don't have the right to protect their own lives, with the crappy pay they make on top of all the other bull shit they have to put up with, we won't have enough police to protect all the touchy feely crowd who won't protect themselves from folks who would abuse their privlidges and freedoms in our society.

Oh, wait... WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH POLICE OFFICERS NOW!

[Tayman]

ok, well after reading the chronicle's website, it says the officer had his gun pointed at the driver inside the vehicle (why?).
The car lurched forward and the gun accidently went off when the door frame hit his arm.

I guess it is unfortunate that I am someone that doesn't believe everything that I read.

There were three other people in the car. I am sure the person riding shotgun saw everything.

Oh yah, the police aren't releasing the testament from the other teens in the car; especially the reason why they fled. :rolleyes:

The very most important thing that no one has questioned is this: Was the cop in plain clothes or what? If there was a man with a gun chasing me around in an unmarked car (without any type of uniform, badge or shit) do you think I would stop to see if he was really a cop?

I think most cops get offended when we question their actions or *gasp* disobey thier orders. If we don't raise questions then we might as well live in a foreign country where cops do whatever the fuck they want to and get away with it. A country where people are at the will of the people hired to protect them... I speak for myself when I say that I respect all GOOD cops. I have been in enough situations to see what they have to deal with everyday. But, I have also been in plenty of fucked up situations as well. I would say 75% of cops are good and don't have a chip on their shoulder from my experiences.

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by Flores
Wow, such drama....

Do they teach officers what I was taught, you don't draw your weapon unless your ready to kill someone...

you don't 'aim to wound' someone... Why would anyone stop for a cop waving a gun at him, if they though, 'ah hell, he can't shoot me, cause then I'm the victim! And even if he does, he will just wing me, I'm tought, I can take it'

While it seems apperent this was an accidental shooting, (ie not an execution, or muder) touchy feely types are always looking for excuses to say someone's rights were violated, because their own actions put them in a bad spot..

Only 15? sorry to hear that. Doesn't excuse the bad judgment, no matter what you may think.

Drivin without a license in mommy's car? Damn, that was stupid.

TRYING TO KILL SOMEONE WHO HAS A GUN STUCK IN THE WINDOW OF MY CAR... Really stupid... if the guy was a carjacker, just let him take the damn thing, ain't worth getting killed over...

It seems to me that anyone who would say the police officer was TOTALY RESPONSIBLE for this kids death is also going to use the same type of logic that says a serial killer is just misunderstood, a victim of society, and just needs therapy...

The cop will probably draw a reprimand, based on the touchy feely crowd's 'FEELINGS' on this matter, and go back to work with a 'let be careful out there'...

Not going to waste time going into hypothetical 'what if situations'. Police officers are trained to deal with situations based on previous experience.

Maybe it's only a loophool, but if a cop is standing with his arm in your vehicle, and you take off, whatever you were pulled over for, even just speeding, you have just attempted the murder of a police officer, which is a captial offence. You CAN get the death penelty for that. That law protecting the lives of police is there based on years of previous experience with people trying to run over cops, or evade justice.

Seems kind of steep penelty for a 15 year old who 'doesn't really know what he is doing'? Bull Shit. If he is out on the streets with me, he should know these things, or stay home. just because so many parent give their kids extended adolesence, and don't teach them responsibility, doesn't mean they shouldn't be held repsonsible for their actions. How else are they going to learn that you MUST be responsible for your own actions, and reap the benifit (or pay the price) for them?

If our sworn officers don't have the right to protect their own lives, with the crappy pay they make on top of all the other bull shit they have to put up with, we won't have enough police to protect all the touchy feely crowd who won't protect themselves from folks who would abuse their privlidges and freedoms in our society.

Oh, wait... WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH POLICE OFFICERS NOW!

Thank you very much!!! Very well put!

On a side note the officer was suspended WITH PAY which is basically a vacation until the IA investigation is done, Standard Operating Procedure! So he's not gone.

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by Flores
Wow, such drama....

Do they teach officers what I was taught, you don't draw your weapon unless your ready to kill someone...

you don't 'aim to wound' someone... Why would anyone stop for a cop waving a gun at him, if they though, 'ah hell, he can't shoot me, cause then I'm the victim! And even if he does, he will just wing me, I'm tought, I can take it'

While it seems apperent this was an accidental shooting, (ie not an execution, or muder) touchy feely types are always looking for excuses to say someone's rights were violated, because their own actions put them in a bad spot..

Only 15? sorry to hear that. Doesn't excuse the bad judgment, no matter what you may think.

Drivin without a license in mommy's car? Damn, that was stupid.

TRYING TO KILL SOMEONE WHO HAS A GUN STUCK IN THE WINDOW OF MY CAR... Really stupid... if the guy was a carjacker, just let him take the damn thing, ain't worth getting killed over...

It seems to me that anyone who would say the police officer was TOTALY RESPONSIBLE for this kids death is also going to use the same type of logic that says a serial killer is just misunderstood, a victim of society, and just needs therapy...

The cop will probably draw a reprimand, based on the touchy feely crowd's 'FEELINGS' on this matter, and go back to work with a 'let be careful out there'...

Not going to waste time going into hypothetical 'what if situations'. Police officers are trained to deal with situations based on previous experience.

Maybe it's only a loophool, but if a cop is standing with his arm in your vehicle, and you take off, whatever you were pulled over for, even just speeding, you have just attempted the murder of a police officer, which is a captial offence. You CAN get the death penelty for that. That law protecting the lives of police is there based on years of previous experience with people trying to run over cops, or evade justice.

Seems kind of steep penelty for a 15 year old who 'doesn't really know what he is doing'? Bull Shit. If he is out on the streets with me, he should know these things, or stay home. just because so many parent give their kids extended adolesence, and don't teach them responsibility, doesn't mean they shouldn't be held repsonsible for their actions. How else are they going to learn that you MUST be responsible for your own actions, and reap the benifit (or pay the price) for them?

If our sworn officers don't have the right to protect their own lives, with the crappy pay they make on top of all the other bull shit they have to put up with, we won't have enough police to protect all the touchy feely crowd who won't protect themselves from folks who would abuse their privlidges and freedoms in our society.

Oh, wait... WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH POLICE OFFICERS NOW!

well said. cops dont have the luxery of u and me right now sitting back and thinking of all the possibilities. they have to use thier best judgement and act in the heat of the moment. its easy for u and me to either critizise or praise someone for thier actions.......but untill either u or me are out thier getting shot at or tryin to be run over by punk kids niether u or i should pass judgemnet on someone thats trying to do thier job to make the streets of houston safer.

[Flores]

Originally posted by Tayman
ok, well after reading the chronicle's website, it says the officer had his gun pointed at the driver inside the vehicle (why?).
The car lurched forward and the gun accidently went off when the door frame hit his arm.

I guess it is unfortunate that I am someone that doesn't believe everything that I read.

There were three other people in the car. I am sure the person riding shotgun saw everything.

Oh yah, the police aren't releasing the testament from the other teens in the car; especially the reason why they fled. :rolleyes:

The very most important thing that no one has questioned is this: Was the cop in plain clothes or what? If there was a man with a gun chasing me around in an unmarked car (without any type of uniform, badge or shit) do you think I would stop to see if he was really a cop?



And they won't release it, if those folks are minors...

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by Tayman
The very most important thing that no one has questioned is this: Was the cop in plain clothes or what? If there was a man with a gun chasing me around in an unmarked car (without any type of uniform, badge or shit) do you think I would stop to see if he was really a cop?

You can't work and extra job without wearing a uniform(with the exception of traffic duty ie directing traffic for events such as Rennisance Festival, but even then, had shirts that said Sheriff really big on the front and the back). The whole purpose of them being there was extra security, and Police presence is what they wanted. So how are you going to have police presence if someone is not wearing their uniform. The uniforms would dissipate any further confusion brought about by people who are not peace officer's wearing t-shirts that said Police Etc.

[Flores]

How funny. The kid's parent's lawyer is talking about 'holding everyone responsbile for their actions'... what a blood sucking leech...

"One of the Houston police officers saw the teens' Blazer narrowly miss hitting his two fellow officers before speeding away from the movie theater, investigators said. That officer, driving his own personal vehicle, then chased the teens' car as it drove north on Dunvale.

When heavy traffic forced the Blazer to a halt in the 2700 block of Dunvale, the officer stepped out of his car and approached them. Noticing that there were four people in the car, the officer walked up to the driver's-side window with his pistol drawn and ordered the driver to stop the car, place it in park and show his hands, investigators said.

The officer then stuck his gun into the driver's-side window and saw movement in the back seat, police said. The officer repositioned himself, moving slightly forward so he could keep an eye on all four youths, investigators said.

But on Saturday, investigators said that after the officer had ordered the teens to stop, the driver ignored his commands and instead stepped on the accelerator, causing the car to lurch forward, investigators said. The vehicle's door frame then struck the officer's arm, causing his gun to accidently fire one time, they said. The teen driver was shot once in the left side of his chest"

I don't see how this is an over-reaction... If some asshole just missed running over a couple of cops, has 4 people in a car that you can't see what they have or are holding, you must assume the worst... Pistol is the equalizer here...

The cop has no way of knowing he is dealing with a 15 year old. The accident of his death just makes it that much more sad, bet the cop is going to have nightmares over this one for years...

All could have been avoided if some dumb ass fifteen year old had STAYED HOME... (no licsene, he was going to have that car impouded...)

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

looks like i need to hurry up and set up a pay pal account so cheese head can pay me some money

[Tayman]

Originally posted by Flores
How funny. The kid's parent's lawyer is talking about 'holding everyone responsbile for their actions'... what a blood sucking leech...

"One of the Houston police officers saw the teens' Blazer narrowly miss hitting his two fellow officers before speeding away from the movie theater, investigators said. That officer, driving his own personal vehicle, then chased the teens' car as it drove north on Dunvale.

When heavy traffic forced the Blazer to a halt in the 2700 block of Dunvale, the officer stepped out of his car and approached them. Noticing that there were four people in the car, the officer walked up to the driver's-side window with his pistol drawn and ordered the driver to stop the car, place it in park and show his hands, investigators said.

The officer then stuck his gun into the driver's-side window and saw movement in the back seat, police said. The officer repositioned himself, moving slightly forward so he could keep an eye on all four youths, investigators said.

But on Saturday, investigators said that after the officer had ordered the teens to stop, the driver ignored his commands and instead stepped on the accelerator, causing the car to lurch forward, investigators said. The vehicle's door frame then struck the officer's arm, causing his gun to accidently fire one time, they said. The teen driver was shot once in the left side of his chest"

I don't see how this is an over-reaction... If some asshole just missed running over a couple of cops, has 4 people in a car that you can't see what they have or are holding, you must assume the worst... Pistol is the equalizer here...

The cop has no way of knowing he is dealing with a 15 year old. The accident of his death just makes it that much more sad, bet the cop is going to have nightmares over this one for years...

All could have been avoided if some dumb ass fifteen year old had STAYED HOME... (no licsene, he was going to have that car impouded...)
Lets not talk about how this could have been avoided. This kind of shit all goes back to good parenting...what the fuck was a group of teens doing out on the streets that late on Halloween without driver's licenses? :rolleyes:

But, that is another can of worms that doesn't need to be opened. ;)

[ninja]

When you're a cop, you can't assume "oh, it's just a bunch of kids, they don't have a gun" and that they wouldn't try to hurt you somehow. Otherwise, you wouldn't be a cop for very long, considering how many "bunches of kids" do have guns.

[ASE FC]

shit happens:-/

[CheeseFrog]

At any rate, the guy now has an accidental discharge permanently on his record. That doesn't look too bueno when it comes time for performance reviews. Not only that, but he has an accidental discharge resulting in death. Isn't it the normal procedure for the officer to be suspended with pay pending an investigation of the incident? Yup... Better go make that PayPal account, hombre :thumb:

[01civicon19s]

Damn he the officer kills someone and he gets suspended with pay. Seems like hes been rewarded with a vacation.

[BoostJunkie]

yes... i drove by it and saw it... i asked a cop what was going on.. he said it was a shooting... no bueno

[1314]

No one here is qualified to make any kind of decision or judgement in this case. It's all just opinion while using basic facts to back up speculation. Cheesefrog and both Specs both have valid points, yet I still find big holes in both arguments.

I don't see any criminal charges being brought on the officer, but like the rest of us, I don't have the details that matter to make a decision that is beyond a reasonable doubt. Civially, is another matter, though.

There are listed in the same chapter 545. I wonder why there is a discrepancy.

Check the Penal Code. If you're looking in chapter 545, that's the Transportation Code.

I want you to quote me the law book that justifies killing someone for fleeing.

Again, check the Penal Code. Look under section 9.51, and it does show justification.

On the flip side though, we can also look at section 9.31 (c)(2), which gives a citizen the right to use force against a peace officer if he believes the PO's force is greater than necessary. But, that probably wouldn't fly in this case because the kid was evading.

Oh well. A lose/lose situation for both parties.

[glassuser]

A couple more points to add:
First, and the biggest hole, how does someone run down someone else when they're standing on the ground at their side window?

Suspension with pay is standard procedure for just about anything. It's a result of both the state labor department rules and due process (something the cop would have done well to study). He's removed from active duty because of possible liability, but disciplinary action is not taken until he's found guilty by an appropriate entity of judgement.

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by glassuser
A couple more points to add:
First, and the biggest hole, how does someone run down someone else when they're standing on the ground at their side window?

As previously stated, the kid almost ran down officer's while exiting the parkinglot. The officer caught up with the juveniles after they exited the parkinglot, at that time, weapon was drawn of 4 subjects, in a SUV, with unknown weapons. The subjects try to flee, which causes the vehicle to lurch forward, which in turn bumps the officer's arm, which in turn causes a shot to be fired, which strikes the driver in the left side of the chest.


We can say what would you do if this or that, but it doesn't matter, because we weren't there.

[SprayedAccord]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
We can say what would you do if this or that, but it doesn't matter, because we weren't there.
That sums up the whole point of this thread.

[syntheticGT]

The kid was armed....

He had a 4,000lb missile ready at his will...and as stated...almost used it.

:(

[MBGTO]

A point that has been repeatedly brought up, but some people just don't understand that.

[benster]

Damn I cant believe I read through this entire thread. Every one has opinions or what not so here is mine.

Some people here said that we were kids at one point and did stupid things. True to that fact but not stupid enough to drive with no license and evading a cop with a drawn gun.

15 years old? Sad fact that most 15 year olds nowadays look like they could be 20 or 25 years old. There was no way the cop can determine how old you are just by looking at you. (Specially at night)

Yeah all this coulda been avoided by the kid NOT DRIVING the suv in the first place. (The source of the problem) He has his own judgements and took the risk. Probably never thought the consequences to the point that he would pay with his life.

I will definately agree cops are pigs to us all because they have been through a lot of shit. (even thou its not an excuse)

It is a tragic loss. The kid in no way deserved to die, but shit happens. Life goes on. The cop will probably take the wrap for all this or maybe getoff on the "accidental shooting" part. The outcome is a lose-lose situation.

[DarkEntity]

Originally posted by NuKonzRolla02
well shit, does the cop expect for a SUV to speed around the parking lot? wtf mayn, if i was 15 id get scurd if a cop was coming at me, the SUV most likely is mom and dads and they would probably kill me!!!

its not like its NOT NORMAL to see a suv "creeping" around a parking lot such as the the theatre one..

and im not sure but i dont think its procedure to put the gun through the window into the car when you're asking for the person to get out.

i hope the parents press charges on the cop... punk kids nothing, i dont see they did anything wrong, they were jus scurd.

uhhhhh..... a car - is a DEADLY weapon....

[DarkEntity]

Originally posted by NuKonzRolla02
seriously, he shouldnt of even had his fuckin finger on the trigger!

Are you kidding me?? An SUV full of people 1 light away from Robert E. Lee high school. That cop was probably more scared than the kids were..... There are so many guns in that area, it's nuts... The cop was looking out for his life - when you hear FREEZE you don't move... Stupid ass kid made a quick move by making his car (A DEADLY WEAPON) jerk forward, and the cop reacted by shooting him... You don't have time to think in that sittuation, it's kill or be killed...

[ACS3rdDAN]

man...i was there friday night....i'm glad it wasn't saturday....

[DarkEntity]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
Really? He was going to drive over to my house and run me over while I was busy working on my websites? Wow, I never knew that... I think I'm going to need some grief counceling now.


OJ & AC? Wake up and smell reality... You're living in paranoia. Not everybody out there is a criminal that's going to commit a crime/traffic violation/whatever as soon as that red light turns green. Last time I checked, people who are "running" from the law don't stop for traffic and red lights like this kid was.


Well if what you say is true, this cop should fell great! He should be on top of the world! He's a hero who saved the world from this kid who might have gone on to drive 10mph over the limit (doubtful in Westheimer weekend gridlock), and might have come over to my house and run me over while I was working on my websites... and might have created "laser" to destroy the world.

ok dude.. you are a MORON

I used to live right accross from AMC30...... it's not a good area. When approaching a car full of people - you already have to be cautious.. Now, when that car TOOK OFF running from POLICE, jumping curbs and shit - something is definitly wrong here.. For all the cop knew, the kid was strapped - and would have taken out the cop at the 1st chance.. "The cop should have came up, and manualy tried to stop them without having his gun drawn"??? Are you people dumb?? If cops did that, their life expectancy wouldn't pass the age 25...

[DarkEntity]

Originally posted by grnlude97
Haha ok Cheesefrog, Ima try one last time....

Since you say they him being a theif is irrelavant (which it is), then you're saying the cop is justified in killing him for fleeing. Just imagine what would happen if cops could kill everyone that ran.

For one: NOBODY would RUN anymore...

The kid was behind a wheel of a 4000lb DEADLY WEAPON. For all the cop knew, he might have also had an AK47 on his lap - the cop did not, nor should not have taken the risk of being killed himself, so he used REASONABLE FORCE to stop a SUSPICIOS SUSPECT, who STILL was trying to RUN even with a weapon drawn at him.. The kid deserved it 100%.

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by DarkEntity
ok dude.. you are a MORON

I used to live right accross from AMC30...... it's not a good area. When approaching a car full of people - you already have to be cautious.. Now, when that car TOOK OFF running from POLICE, jumping curbs and shit - something is definitly wrong here.. For all the cop knew, the kid was strapped - and would have taken out the cop at the 1st chance.. "The cop should have came up, and manualy tried to stop them without having his gun drawn"??? Are you people dumb?? If cops did that, their life expectancy wouldn't pass the age 25...
LOL holy shit, I guess subtle sarcasm is completely lost on some people. Next time I had better use mono-syllabic words so that mildly retarded people like you can understand. :roflmao:

[Blood_Type-S]

I think it's safe to say this is a situation where both people were at fault, whats the point in getting heated about it? The kid was wrong for fleeing the cop and driving reckless (jumpin the curb). IMO the cop could've approached the car differently and refrained from putting his gun inside the car. Had he been just outside the car then the car moving wouldn't have reacted him 2 shoot. It's truly sad the kid had to die but at 15, whether a kid or not, he knew what he was doing was wrong, and whenever you do the wrong thing there is ALWAYS a risk. I'll complain about a ticket as much as the next guy, but I feel like "Why am I getting a ticket for blue turn signals or 50 in a 40" when I am sure cops have (or should) much better things to do. Some are good and some are A-holes but thats anyone in any line of work.

Kid paid the ultimate price...Cop will have to live with that forever and take any punishment he gets.

[DarkEntity]

Originally posted by grnlude97
I want you to quote me the law book that justifies killing someone for fleeing. Try me

Assault with a deadly weapon (Ex. A 4000lb CAR), is justifiable by using deadly force.

[glassuser]

Originally posted by DarkEntity
Are you kidding me?? An SUV full of people 1 light away from Robert E. Lee high school. That cop was probably more scared than the kids were..... There are so many guns in that area, it's nuts... The cop was looking out for his life - when you hear FREEZE you don't move... Stupid ass kid made a quick move by making his car (A DEADLY WEAPON) jerk forward, and the cop reacted by shooting him... You don't have time to think in that sittuation, it's kill or be killed... Doesn't change the rules. HPD rules of engagement (and any reasonable standard of firearm use) hold that you do not put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to kill whatever it's pointed at.

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by DarkEntity
Assault with a deadly weapon (Ex. A 4000lb CAR), is justifiable by using deadly force.
Uhm, dude... newsflash: The cop didn't mean to shoot. It was an accidental discharge.

Now if he had really intended to pull the trigger, there wouldn't be a problem. Like you said, assault with a deadly weapon, etc. Totally justifiable -- cop would have merely been defending himself. But that's not the case. The gun accidentally went off, which introduces the element of negligence. And now you're talking about a whole different ball game.

[DarkEntity]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
Uhm, dude... newsflash: The cop didn't mean to shoot. It was an accidental discharge.

Now if he had really intended to pull the trigger, there wouldn't be a problem. Like you said, assault with a deadly weapon, etc. Totally justifiable -- cop would have merely been defending himself. But that's not the case. The gun accidentally went off, which introduces the element of negligence. And now you're talking about a whole different ball game.

yeah, I just saw it... I was reading the entire thread - quotting people as I went. I wrote that before I got to the part talking about it being accidental.

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by glassuser
Doesn't change the rules. HPD rules of engagement (and any reasonable standard of firearm use) hold that you do not put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to kill whatever it's pointed at.

You didn't read my reply to this whole subject did you? Try it with an unloaded gun. Line your finger on the trigger gaurd, and bump your arm with a decent amount of force, now tell me that your finger stays there. YOu don't know that he had his finger on the trigger, niether do I. You can't call that one, so just let it go. I understand HPD's SOP, but we don't have a camera to zoom in on his finger and see the placement of it.

[glassuser]

I don't see how a bump on your arm would do that. What was e doing sticking his arm with a loaded firearm into a vehicle that he thought was hostile?

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by glassuser
I don't see how a bump on your arm would do that. What was e doing sticking his arm with a loaded firearm into a vehicle that he thought was hostile?

Neither you nor I know the answer to that, so it is non debatable. We don't know where his finger was. The car was occupied 4x, I think I would put my arm in the vehicle that was fleeing and almost ran over 3 or 4 of my fellow officers. I'm just saying, we know the SOP but we don't know the specific's of it, so it's really pointless to debate on speculation. Next topic!!!

[Tayman]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
and almost ran over 3 or 4 of my fellow officers.

That is speculation also.

[MBGTO]

How is that speculation when you have witnesses to that? 3 or 4 officers will testify that the vehicle came speeding towards them, and I'm sure someone saw it.

So please explain how that's speculation.

[glassuser]

Ran them over while stopped in heavy traffic? This is just typical charge-ramping.

[Tayman]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
How is that speculation when you have witnesses to that? 3 or 4 officers will testify that the vehicle came speeding towards them, and I'm sure someone saw it.

So please explain how that's speculation.

Well, what if the three guys in the car say that the cop put his hand in the car and fired intentionally? Do you take it as fact since there are three witnesses?

[MBGTO]

No, but who is the judge going to believe? The shot has already been ruled accidental.

[Tayman]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
No, but who is the judge going to believe? The shot has already been ruled accidental.
that goes without saying, doesn't mean it is always the truth though.

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by DarkEntity
For one: NOBODY would RUN anymore...

The kid was behind a wheel of a 4000lb DEADLY WEAPON. For all the cop knew, he might have also had an AK47 on his lap - the cop did not, nor should not have taken the risk of being killed himself, so he used REASONABLE FORCE to stop a SUSPICIOS SUSPECT, who STILL was trying to RUN even with a weapon drawn at him.. The kid deserved it 100%.

exactly my point. thanks for being able to understand what a cop has to do as part or thier job

[DarkEntity]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
exactly my point. thanks for being able to understand what a cop has to do as part or thier job

I'm friends with a bunch of cops, and one of my family members in an FBI agent :thumb:

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by DarkEntity
I'm friends with a bunch of cops, and one of my family members in an FBI agent :thumb:

ya. my dads a cop.....who by the way agreed 100 percent with what the cop did... my brother is army special forces. when he gets out hes gonna be a cop. and 4 real good friends of mine are police officers.

[MBGTO]

I work for Da Police, my pop's was a Sheriff Deputy, but he quit to go make some real money! My Unlce was a Captain for another Sheriff's Dept, my Grandmother was a Senior Probation officer.

[FatAbbot]

I drove by this on Friday night. Not cool, but you couldn't really tell what was going on.

And I feel sorry for both the kid and the police officer. Cops go through a lot when they kill someone, regardless of the circumstances. And the kid probably left a loving family. All in all, pretty sad.

[Evil Patio]

dumbass kid got shot accidentally for evading the police and thats that :gay:

[Kinny]

Hmmmmmm.. There are too many gaps and holes in the story.. The fucking news station always do this.. Bending the truth to make the story more interesting..

Did the kid really drove off and evade the police?? Not really sure..

Did the off duty officer really had his hand and gun inside the vehicle while it was in motion?? Maybe..

Does the kid deserved to die?? Probably not..

What was the kid doing?? Was he scoping the for cars to steal or was he scoping to pick up some chicks?? Only the kid himself would know and he's dead..

The cop will undoubtly get fired for this..

And Terry Bryant is going to rip HPD a new one.. lol..

There are too many missing info for me to put a finger on who's fault it was.. It was probably both's fault.. Cop for putting his trigger finger in position to discharge the firearm. Kid for evading the police.. Regardless, shit like this shouldn't have happened...

[Evil Patio]

Originally posted by Kinny
Hmmmmmm.. There are too many gaps and holes in the story.. The fucking news station always do this.. Bending the truth to make the story more interesting..

Did the kid really drove off and evade the police?? Not really sure..

Did the off duty officer really had his hand and gun inside the vehicle while it was in motion?? Maybe..

Does the kid deserved to die?? Probably not..

What was the kid doing?? Was he scoping the for cars to steal or was he scoping to pick up some chicks?? Only the kid himself would know and he's dead..

The cop will undoubtly get fired for this..

And Terry Bryant is going to rip HPD a new one.. lol..

There are too many missing info for me to put a finger on who's fault it was.. It was probably both's fault.. Cop for putting his trigger finger in position to discharge the firearm. Kid for evading the police.. Regardless, shit like this shouldn't have happened...



lets see, the kid hopped the curb so yes he was evading police.

yes, how else did the kid get shot in the chest??

dumb ass kid

he was 15! and DRIVING without a license with 3 other teens in the car :confused: then he runs when the cop notices him /:duh:

[Kinny]

Originally posted by Patio
lets see, the kid hopped the curb so yes he was evading police.

yes, how else did the kid get shot in the chest??

dumb ass kid

he was 15! and DRIVING without a license with 3 other teens in the car :confused: then he runs when the cop notices him /:duh:

You're basing what happened from what you've read from the news.. Do you believe on everything the news wrote?? Like I said... He may be evading the police.. He probably have, but that's what the news let you to believe.. You don't really know what happened unless you're at the scene... Yes, the kid was driving without a license.. Yes, he was in a deadly weapon (A 4000lb truck).. But does he deserved the death penalty.. No.. Right or wrong, both party acted on the "Fight or Flight" instinct.. The kid lost in this case..

[Prissy]

Well from the news, I pretty much figured something like that was bound to happen. The HPD officers have approached the SUV many times before the actual shooting to see what was going on since they noticed him cruising up and down the parking lot. He also sped away many times after an officer approached his vehicle but kept coming back.

Youngsters need to be taught what to do in these sorts of situations. I'm pretty sure he got pissed scared and accidentally stepped on the gas when he saw the gun in his face. The officer was just doing his job and he had every right to draw his weapon when he noticed suspicious behavior in the back seat. Hell when an officer tells me to stop and put my goddamn hands up, I'm gonna do it. Kids just don't know what to do.

Terry Bryant is in it for the money that the defendants aren't going to get. The officers did their job, be cleared of all charges, and the families won't get a dime. Just the way it goes.

[speeddemon]

OMG! thread die already!

[jkr_hatchback]

Originally posted by NuKonzRolla02
hello, he was 15, no lisences, probably parents SUV, so wouldnt that make u wanna jump a curb to get out of there. he probaby thought it was just some parking lot security so it was ok to run. you guys swear he's the bad guy here.. THE KID IS THE VICTUM!!!

yea the kid is the fucking victim!!!! Wat assholes...

i fucking hate cops..... and no that is not the correct

procedure for a cop to even be visable through the

window.. he shouldve been at the back driver side door...

Poor kid he was only 15... even if he was young....

yall juss outcast him? everyone deseverves a second chance...

especially if your only15.

OUIT HATING:o

[Kinny]

Originally posted by jkr_hatchback
yea the kid is the fucking victim!!!! Wat assholes...

i fucking hate cops..... and no that is not the correct

procedure for a cop to even be visable through the

window.. he shouldve been at the back driver side door...

Poor kid he was only 15... even if he was young....

yall juss outcast him? everyone deseverves a second chance...

especially if your only15.

OUIT HATING:o

Wow.. You're telling people to quit hatin, and yet you hate cops..

[jkr_hatchback]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
[B]He didn't use a car cause he was on an extra job, so he was probably walking around, trying to use the element of suprise to catch them breaking in.

I don't know why the cop didn't approach the vehicle from the drivers side? The kid drove off from him, and he was running to catch up after he jumped a curb. Hmm??

You say he didn't do shit but evade, but evading is a felony my friend. That's a pretty serious crime!


:bullshit: evading is not a fuckin felony

[jkr_hatchback]

Originally posted by Kinny
Wow.. You're telling people to quit hatin, and yet you hate cops..

oppss... sorry ill shut up now...


LOL ahhhahahahah

:roflmao:

[jkr_hatchback]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
well, all this is nice and good, but like my friend whos a police officer says, you bash and hate cops, but who is the first person you call to get your ass out of trouble you cant get out of that you probally caused in the first place??? POLICE! im done wasting breath on yall people that have no idea of the law, but you see a different side when you have close friends who are police officers.....

ha! i have friends who are popos but they dont act all power hungry wen i talk to them they know they have the power and abuse it anyway....when cops live theyre normal life theyre normal but once they go to work theyre assholes...

and no cops dont do shit.... this is houston take an incident report and thats it.. they dont do shit but give you a little white piece of paper with the case # on it...

:gay: :o

[Evil Patio]

Originally posted by Kinny
You're basing what happened from what you've read from the news.. Do you believe on everything the news wrote?? Like I said... He may be evading the police.. He probably have, but that's what the news let you to believe.. You don't really know what happened unless you're at the scene... Yes, the kid was driving without a license.. Yes, he was in a deadly weapon (A 4000lb truck).. But does he deserved the death penalty.. No.. Right or wrong, both party acted on the "Fight or Flight" instinct.. The kid lost in this case.. so you agree with me then, case closed, patio's off to work :thumb:

[Kinny]

Originally posted by Patio
so you agree with me then, case closed, patio's off to work :thumb:

NeVaR.. Go to work then! :p

[SprayedAccord]

This 15 year old kid died because he was a dumbass fuck. Who CARES!! Why do people need to argue the same shit over and over. It's the same kinda posts on every page! HE DIED. One less punk on the road. END OF STORY!

[Evil Patio]

Originally posted by Kinny
NeVaR.. Go to work then! :p yes you do! you said you did! dont lie!:D

[1314]

What's going on here? I thought it was cleared up that no one knows the details therefore, we are all unable to make proper decisions.

Doesn't change the rules. HPD rules of engagement (and any reasonable standard of firearm use) hold that you do not put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to kill whatever it's pointed at.

May help in the civil case, but not criminally.

I don't see how a bump on your arm would do that. What was e doing sticking his arm with a loaded firearm into a vehicle that he thought was hostile?

That's what I don't get and is seen constantly on TV. Now, I totally understand the whole adrenaline thing going on, but if you think a vehicle is occupied by potentially dangerous people, why would you walk up to it and stick your hand in it? I keep reading about how an officer is trained to do this and that. Are you forgetting that they are also trained in conducting a felony stop which does NOT involve walking up to a vehicle. The vehicle was already stopped in traffic. What's the problem here?

Ran them over while stopped in heavy traffic?

Well, according to the media, tried to run them over before they got stuck in traffic.

evading is not a fuckin felony

When you use a car, yes it is. It's not if you run on foot, though.

[Debi]

Some one asked.. do you remember being 15.. yes.. and I was not thinking about running from the police...or breaking in to cars.. it was more of.. ohhh shit i hope i dont fail because it would suck...

mer.. if that was his parents car.. then he prob. stole it.. who in their right mind would let their 15 yo stay out that late anyway with out a DL in their car.. around westheimer? I guess I had more common sence when i was 15... :eek3:

[.:IceMan:.]

Point #1

He was cruising in a vehicle in a theater where its known to have many BMV's to cars.

Point #2

Thats suspicious behavior given the history of BMV's in that property. The Officer was in the right for attempting to stop the vehicle.

Point #3

The vehicle attempted to run over the Police Officer when the officer attempted to stop the vehicle. The officer was initially on the front part of the vehicle when the vehicle took off the officer jumped aside nearly getting hit by the vehicle. That is called Attempted Manslaughter towards a Police Officer.

Point #4

After jumping the curb, and unfortunately for the driver got stuck in traffic, the Officer approached the vehicle from the rear driver side door stating "Police Officer, keep your hands where I can see them, and get out of the car. The suspect then lurched down towards the bottom of his seat which triggered the officer to become worried about his own safety. Not knowing what the suspect was reaching for. Officer responded with "LET ME SEE YOUR HANDS....SHOW ME YOUR FUCKEN HANDS!!!" The suspect still with his right hand fetching towards the bottom of his seat, guns the vehicle and the officer shot the suspect.

The officers hand was not completely in the car it was near inside the car with no suspects in the back seat.

That's what I don't get and is seen constantly on TV. Now, I totally understand the whole adrenaline thing going on, but if you think a vehicle is occupied by potentially dangerous people, why would you walk up to it and stick your hand in it? I keep reading about how an officer is trained to do this and that. Are you forgetting that they are also trained in conducting a felony stop which does NOT involve walking up to a vehicle. The vehicle was already stopped in traffic. What's the problem here?



I dont know any of you all that have been to the Academy for Police Officers, or if any of you know how to conduct a felony stop of a motor vehicle with possible weapons, so none of you should put in your .02 cents on how the stop should have been conducted and what procedure would be the best, cause im sure none of you have been in that type of situation where you have to unman a vehicle with possible suspects and weapons. I know I have and was taught how to do the felony stop. I think the aboves authors problem is, what he stated in his first sentence..."That's what I don't get and is seen constantly on TV"

stop watching TV and think you know how to do a felony stop just by watching Cops on TV or any other shows that has to do with Police officers.

My personal opinion:

The shooting, as justified as it seems, is a very vague one due to the situation. It will have to be cleared up better.
Before you start saying "how do you know what really happen, if you werent there". I wont answer how I know what really happen.

[ItZmEoInK]

Originally posted by IccH_AccLude
I think it was more of a reaction thing once you have your gun inside the car pointed at somone and the startlement of the kid hitting the gas just made the cops body clenth and pulled the trigger........ still unfortunate and a shitty way to doie over nothing though:-/

It wasn't an raction... On the news last night it said that the cop supposedly accidently pulled it because the car hit his arm so the gun went off... but i agree the kid shouldn't of ran from the cops...

[Kinny]

Originally posted by .:IceMan:.
Before you start saying "how do you know what really happen, if you werent there". I wont answer how I know what really happen.

Meaning you're full of shit too huh?? Just like the rest of us..

[glassuser]

Originally posted by .:IceMan:.
After jumping the curb, and unfortunately for the driver got stuck in traffic, the Officer approached the vehicle from the rear driver side door stating "Police Officer, keep your hands where I can see them, and get out of the car. The suspect then lurched down towards the bottom of his seat which triggered the officer to become worried about his own safety. Not knowing what the suspect was reaching for. Officer responded with "LET ME SEE YOUR HANDS....SHOW ME YOUR FUCKEN HANDS!!!" The suspect still with his right hand fetching towards the bottom of his seat, guns the vehicle and the officer shot the suspect.
So was the officer's hand not in the vehicle?

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by jkr_hatchback
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
[B]He didn't use a car cause he was on an extra job, so he was probably walking around, trying to use the element of suprise to catch them breaking in.

I don't know why the cop didn't approach the vehicle from the drivers side? The kid drove off from him, and he was running to catch up after he jumped a curb. Hmm??

You say he didn't do shit but evade, but evading is a felony my friend. That's a pretty serious crime!


:bullshit: evading is not a fuckin felony

Read the FUCKING thread again, I also posted the Penal Code section where it show's that Evading is a STATE JAIL FELONY

And, In no way is anyone saying that the kid deserved to die. I never said that in any of my repys. It was the outcome of the circumstance based upon the decsions he made, the decisions that cost him his life. His death could have been prevented if he would have just stopped the vehicle. Was the officer Justified in shooting? Time will tell.

[.:IceMan:.]

Originally posted by glassuser
So was the officer's hand not in the vehicle? partially but theres no rule or procedure that says you cant do or shouldnt do that. its the drivers fault for the accidential shooting not the officer. if the passenger wouldnt have hit the gas the officer wouldnt have shot.

furthermore...if the suspect wouldnt have ran in the first place and stopped and answered the officers questions to what he was doing cruising around the parking, this wouldnt have happen. obviously he ran for a reason. wether he was scared or whatever...common sense dictates that if you dont have or arent doing anything wrong besides driving around looking for hoes and hollering, you dont have anything to be scared of when you are stopped to be questioned about what you are doing....

so lets here the defense for the suspect now.

[Tayman]

Most likely the kid ran because he didn't have a drivers license and was only 15....


(common sense here people)

[CheeseFrog]

It's going to boil down to what hand the officer was holding the gun with. Can anybody tell me why?

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by Tayman
Most likely the kid ran because he didn't have a drivers license and was only 15....


(common sense here people)

Common Sense would have told the normal person to stop. The cop would have called his parents to come and pick him up and he may have gotten a ticket, that's it.

[Tayman]

Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
Common Sense would have told the normal person to stop. The cop would have called his parents to come and pick him up and he may have gotten a ticket, that's it.

I made that statement sense so many people automatically think the kids were trying to jack. Maybe they were maybe they weren't, but most likely they just didn't want to get in trouble. To bad he made a very bad mistake.

I wouldn't run from the cops unless I was facing a LONG time in jail (couple kilos in the trunk or something). :D

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by .:IceMan:.
Point #3

The vehicle attempted to run over the Police Officer when the officer attempted to stop the vehicle. The officer was initially on the front part of the vehicle when the vehicle took off the officer jumped aside nearly getting hit by the vehicle. That is called Attempted Manslaughter towards a Police Officer.
Actually, the officer doesn't even have to be directly in front of a vehicle for it to be considered an attempt to run him over. He can be by the passenger or driver side door, several yards away, and if the driver attempts to flee, that can be construed as an attempt to run the officer down.

Edit: But I seriously doubt he was trying to run the officer over, rather than just simply get away. If he was trying to run him over, why didn't he U-turn and try again after he missed?

[eghatchchick]

I never heard about it. And, I'm definitely staying out of this battle:roflmao: All in all....I think that the cop will lose his job just because of stuff that goes on now a days. Like how someone mentioned that cops from the KMart raid lost their jobs. The family will end up suing and making an assload of money off of this. Sucks for the kid though.

[MBGTO]

I don't think he'll loose his job.

[gandhibrokemyskates]

i just watched the news, the officer is on duty, and the family is filing a lawsuit along with other activists.

[LukezDaName]

Doesn't matter if this kid is 15. He should know better. He ran from the cop and when asked to get out of the vehicle he made offensive movements grabbing under the seat. The cop felt in danger and did what he had to do. Other shootings happen the same way. It's the kids fault but I know by shooting a kid the cop is probaly going to feel bad.

[CheeseFrog]

Anyway, to answer my little trivia question since nobody seems to know... the question was:

"It's going to boil down to what hand the officer was holding the gun with. Can anybody tell me why?"

The answer is that the muscles that activate your trigger finger are located on the inside of your forearm. Try sticking your hand out and relax it. Now grab your wrist and squeeze on the inner part of your wrist -- notice how your fingers contract? If the officer was left-handed, it's entirely possible that the B-pillar of the vehicle struck that part of his wrist and contracted the muscles that actuate his fingers... and in this case, with catastrophic results. That all adds up to a big wrongful death deal.

If he is right-handed, then that would mean he would have to have intentionally pulled the trigger, which, however justified it might be, goes against the grain of what he's contending (that it was an accident).

Damn, nobody wins teh prize!

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
Anyway, to answer my little trivia question since nobody seems to know... the question was:

"It's going to boil down to what hand the officer was holding the gun with. Can anybody tell me why?"

The answer is that the muscles that activate your trigger finger are located on the inside of your forearm. Try sticking your hand out and relax it. Now grab your wrist and squeeze on the inner part of your wrist -- notice how your fingers contract? If the officer was left-handed, it's entirely possible that the B-pillar of the vehicle struck that part of his wrist and contracted the muscles that actuate his fingers... and in this case, with catastrophic results. That all adds up to a big wrongful death deal.

If he is right-handed, then that would mean he would have to have intentionally pulled the trigger, which, however justified it might be, goes against the grain of what he's contending (that it was an accident).

Damn, nobody wins teh prize!


O.K., to rebuttle at your attempted theory, no offense, even if it didn't hit his left hand, try holding something in your hand like a gun. Now bump it with a moderate amount of force, this would cause the item to move in your and, it could very possibly have caused the gun the officer was holding to move and in turn, his finger slipped, hit the trigger, BAM, the kid dies.

In any case, if the kid would not have tried to drive off, he wouldn't have been shot, plain and simple.

[CheeseFrog]

Hmm, I tried what you were saying... Used my G26. Finger on the frame, and tried bashing it against the hard part of my sofa a few times. Pretty hard I might add. At no point did my finger come off the frame rail though.

[SecretAgent]

everyone in this thread is making a lot of assumptions from a half page news clipping.

how do you even know the report is accurate?

there are few things you can, for certain, surmise that occured that night.

1. a 15yo kid and his buddies stole an SUV (obviously stolen b/c he's too young to own a car)
2. he was driving around a parking lot slowly and repeatedly around a bunch of cars, where there have been many auto thefts.
3. he ran from a uniformed officer asking him to stop the vehicle.
4. the cop took agressive action.

don't be so quick to say the kid is innocent. there are thousands of 15 year old "kids" sitting in juvenile hall for car theft, murder robbery, etc how do we know this kid hasn't committed those crimes in the past?

if in fact the officer's hands were in the vehicle, along with his gun, why were they there in the first place? this leads me to believe that there was some kind of stuggle that took place before the shot was fired. cops just don't reach into vehicles. that's the LAST place they stick their hands and GUNS especially. it presents a very dangerous position for the officer. you all can talk bad about cops all you want, but there is one thing they know how to do really really well, and that's protect themselves and their firearms. so the only reason that i can think that the cop would allow himself to get into such a compromising position is that there was a large enough threat for him to use deadly force. how do we know there weren't weapons in the vehicle? or that the kid wasn't about to shoot the cop?

there are way too many unanswered questions and variables to rule it to be anyone's fault at this point.

[MBGTO]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
Hmm, I tried what you were saying... Used my G26. Finger on the frame, and tried bashing it against the hard part of my sofa a few times. Pretty hard I might add. At no point did my finger come off the frame rail though.

Perhaps it's because you were expecting it. It was not a controlled enviornment with the scenario that was actually there.

[CheeseFrog]

Well... at any rate, it was accidental. And, like in a game of pool, accidental shots don't count. He should have gone with the "I meant to do that" theme from the get go and there wouldn't be any problem. Doh!

[Big Turkey]

i know im late on responding but i drove by it on the way to wally's house...the road was blocked off by cops, yellow tape everywhere, glass all over the place and cops taking pics....i thought it was a bad wreck b/c i was driving by and didn't get time to look...but it sucks that it happened but ppl there days are fuckin dumb

-MOrgan

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by Kinny


The cop will undoubtly get fired for this..



lol. the cop will not get fired fort this. mark my words

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by Kinny
You're basing what happened from what you've read from the news.. Do you believe on everything the news wrote?? Like I said... He may be evading the police.. He probably have, but that's what the news let you to believe.. You don't really know what happened unless you're at the scene... Yes, the kid was driving without a license.. Yes, he was in a deadly weapon (A 4000lb truck).. But does he deserved the death penalty.. No.. Right or wrong, both party acted on the "Fight or Flight" instinct.. The kid lost in this case..



well the cop has 2 other cops who are going to testify to his defense. theres no way this cop will be in trouble. all they have to say is the kid tried to run him over......which by the way if he had his hand in the car and the vehicle struck the police officer. thats attempted murder. period. why would the cop get in trouble? he didnt shoot the kid in cold blood. besides its a one sided story anyway. the other teens are too young to testify

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by jkr_hatchback
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SpecVSpeed
[B]He didn't use a car cause he was on an extra job, so he was probably walking around, trying to use the element of suprise to catch them breaking in.

I don't know why the cop didn't approach the vehicle from the drivers side? The kid drove off from him, and he was running to catch up after he jumped a curb. Hmm??

You say he didn't do shit but evade, but evading is a felony my friend. That's a pretty serious crime!


:bullshit: evading is not a fuckin felony

i dont know about houston. but evading a police officer is a fucking felony in the town i live in.

but lets just say in houston its not a felony. the kid sure did commit a felony when he hit a police officer. no where does the law break down the ways of hitting a police officer. u can hit one going 1mph and u will be in just as much trouble as hitting a cop at 110mph. because his car hit a police oficer...even though it was only his arm thats still a FELONY....and attempted vehicular manslaughter.....along with attempted manslaughter of a police officer. if this kid was alive today he would have about 10 things he would have been booked on and the only way hed be home right now is if his parents bailed him out. i gaurantee u he would have been in juvy till he was 18 for what he did

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by jkr_hatchback
ha! i have friends who are popos but they dont act all power hungry wen i talk to them they know they have the power and abuse it anyway....when cops live theyre normal life theyre normal but once they go to work theyre assholes...

and no cops dont do shit.... this is houston take an incident report and thats it.. they dont do shit but give you a little white piece of paper with the case # on it...

:gay: :o

im sorry uve had bad experiences with police officers. but not all are bad. but unfortunately a few are. but whos the first person ur gonna call if uve been robbed...beat up.....ect. THE FUCKING POLICE U HATE SO FUCKING MUCH. dude. u need to grow up and try to imagine a world without police officers.....better yet...why dont u grow the balls to become one and put ur life on the line so u and me could have this debate right now with out having some crack head break into our homes and rob us blind. so fucking cut the cops some fucking slack. no ones perfect and cops are only human. that doesnt mean they mess up once they should be fired. u never made a mistake in ur entire life?

[1314]

Originally posted by .:IceMan:. I dont know any of you all that have been to the Academy for Police Officers, or if any of you know how to conduct a felony stop of a motor vehicle with possible weapons, so none of you should put in your .02 cents on how the stop should have been conducted and what procedure would be the best, cause im sure none of you have been in that type of situation where you have to unman a vehicle with possible suspects and weapons. I know I have and was taught how to do the felony stop. I think the aboves authors problem is, what he stated in his first sentence..."That's what I don't get and is seen constantly on TV"

stop watching TV and think you know how to do a felony stop just by watching Cops on TV or any other shows that has to do with Police officers.

My personal opinion:

The shooting, as justified as it seems, is a very vague one due to the situation. It will have to be cleared up better.
Before you start saying "how do you know what really happen, if you werent there". I wont answer how I know what really happen. [/B]

You don't understand the way I stated what I said. I know how to do a felony stop and that is something that is never seen on TV. I hate to second guess, but running up to a vehicle is not the way to conduct a felony stop, and that's what is seen on TV way too many times (running up to vehicles with disregard to safety). Believe me, when I do happen to catch shows like Cops, it's almost a disgrace sometimes to see the way things are done. And since you claim to know how to conduct such a stop, you should also know that standing behind the driver door with an SUV that has at least 4 individuals inside is not the best way to go about a felony stop.

I agree with your first two points. Point 3 should read Capital Murder. If he was intentionally trying to run him over, that would be murder, bumped to Capital for being a police officer. Manslaughter requires recklessness, not intent. I'll leave Point 4 alone. I wasn't there and haven't read any statements or anything. Hearsay as far as I'm concerned.

[glassuser]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
but lets just say in houston its not a felony. the kid sure did commit a felony when he hit a police officer. no where does the law break down the ways of hitting a police officer. u can hit one going 1mph and u will be in just as much trouble as hitting a cop at 110mph. because his car hit a police oficer...even though it was only his arm thats still a FELONY....and attempted vehicular manslaughter.....along with attempted manslaughter of a police officer. if this kid was alive today he would have about 10 things he would have been booked on and the only way hed be home right now is if his parents bailed him out. i gaurantee u he would have been in juvy till he was 18 for what he did If an officer puts himself in danger due to his negligence, you are not at fault (at least for the direct result of it) - for example, if a cop jumped onto the freeway in the middle of traffic and gets his tubby ass run over, it's not the fault of the trucker who was doing 60 mph when a cop appeared five feet in front of him.

[teggy]

Originally posted by glassuser
If an officer puts himself in danger due to his negligence, you are not at fault (at least for the direct result of it) - for example, if a cop jumped onto the freeway in the middle of traffic and gets his tubby ass run over, it's not the fault of the trucker who was doing 60 mph when a cop appeared five feet in front of him. :roflmao: :roflmao:

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by glassuser
If an officer puts himself in danger due to his negligence, you are not at fault (at least for the direct result of it) - for example, if a cop jumped onto the freeway in the middle of traffic and gets his tubby ass run over, it's not the fault of the trucker who was doing 60 mph when a cop appeared five feet in front of him.

are u that ignorant? how can u compare a cop standing next to a stopped car and telling them to not move......to a cop running in front of on coming vehicles. u my friend are not only stupid....but have no clue how to argue a point. did u graduate middle school yet?:D

[Flores]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
are u that ignorant? how can u compare a cop standing next to a stopped car and telling them to not move......to a cop running in front of on coming vehicles. u my friend are not only stupid....but have no clue how to argue a point. did u graduate middle school yet?:D

Dude, whenever someone has to take a 'hypothetical' situation to rediculous extremes, he has already admited he 1) doesn't really care about anything but winning the argument, and 2) FEELS that his opinion is God's own truth, no matter what the evidence before him is...

You may as well argue with a wall...

For those of you that care, this tactic is called 'shifting ground' and it's what you do when you know your position is weak, and are trying to distract your opponent from the facts with various tactics, ranging from wild speculation about how someone was feeling at the time(like that matters) to bizzare hypothetical constructs to excuse/explain away a given situation (Alzhiemers patients don't appear THAT bad on TV, so why hasn't President Regan appeared on TV to defend himself from the latest attacks on his good name by some goober who made a movie about him? ALL THAT STUFF MUST BE TRUE!!!)

This entire thread has been a good example of what people do when they feel the need to shift blame to authority... Happens every day... It's all text book stuff, though....

<shakes Head and chuckles>

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
are u that ignorant? how can u compare a cop standing next to a stopped car and telling them to not move......to a cop running in front of on coming vehicles. u my friend are not only stupid....but have no clue how to argue a point. did u graduate middle school yet?:D
I believe he was referring to the other two officers who tried to stop the kid while he was still in the parking lot, not the one who accidentally discharged his weapon.

[Jamiroquai]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
are u that ignorant? how can u compare a cop standing next to a stopped car and telling them to not move......to a cop running in front of on coming vehicles. u my friend are not only stupid....but have no clue how to argue a point. did u graduate middle school yet?:D

not taking sides or anything, but just noticed who you wer arguing with, dont waste your time dood, you lose.

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
well the cop has 2 other cops who are going to testify to his defense. theres no way this cop will be in trouble. all they have to say is the kid tried to run him over......which by the way if he had his hand in the car and the vehicle struck the police officer. thats attempted murder. period. why would the cop get in trouble? he didnt shoot the kid in cold blood. besides its a one sided story anyway. the other teens are too young to testify
No offense, hombre, but your arguments could use more substance, and maybe some compelling facts to help support what you're trying to say. Just because the officer who accidentally discharged his weapon has two other officers testifying for him, doesn't guarantee his exhonoration. Does the State of New York vs. Kenneth Boss, Sean Carroll, Edward McMellon, and Richard Murphy ring a bell? I think they had the entire precinct testify for them ;)

And you might want to check that statement about "the other teens are too young to testify." Or was that just a joke? Not sure I get the punchline in that one. It certainly didn't do anything to lend credability to your arguments. :(

[Tayman]

A friend of mine told me the news stations mentioned the SUV was stolen. Is this true or what? If it is, then fuck em. One less thief on the streets.

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
No offense, hombre, but your arguments could use more substance, and maybe some compelling facts to help support what you're trying to say. Just because the officer who accidentally discharged his weapon has two other officers testifying for him, doesn't guarantee his exhonoration. Does the State of New York vs. Kenneth Boss, Sean Carroll, Edward McMellon, and Richard Murphy ring a bell? I think they had the entire precinct testify for them ;)

And you might want to check that statement about "the other teens are too young to testify." Or was that just a joke? Not sure I get the punchline in that one. It certainly didn't do anything to lend credability to your arguments. :(

im not sure the exact steps ud have to take for a minor to testify. but i know in florida a seperate judge from the case has to agree that the minors testify is not only relavent....but they are or were in a state of mind to testify.

a minor is usually not allowed to testify cause they cant be held responsible for thier testimony. there not of age to be held accountable for what they say. u kinda understand where im coming from?

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
I believe he was referring to the other two officers who tried to stop the kid while he was still in the parking lot, not the one who accidentally discharged his weapon.

he responded to my point about hitting the officers arm was attempted manslaughter of a police officer.

even so. all an officer has to do is be near the car, and if the person tries to escape and comes any where near the officers thats attempted murder. wether he hit a cop or not. but in this case his car struck a cops arm. thats attempted murder. this kid would be fucked today if he was alive. hed be facing so much shit its not even funny. its just too bad......all this kid had to do to be alive was listen to a cop.

if im ever pulled over id never think of running from a cop. bad things happen when u do. the least ur gonna get from running from one is jail time.......if u live from it that is

[CheeseFrog]

Originally posted by FLSPEC-VRACER18
a minor is usually not allowed to testify cause they cant be held responsible for thier testimony. there not of age to be held accountable for what they say. u kinda understand where im coming from?
It may vary from state to state and I'm not sure how they do it in FL. In TX, minors can be held accountable for what they say and do, unless their age is at some extreme end, such as a 3yr old drowning his younger brother. In that type of case, yeah it's not unusual for the perpetrator to not be held accountable for his actions because of extenuating circumstances involving such things as his age. Here in TX a few months ago there was a case where a boyfriend/girlfriend duo forced their way into a house, and the boyfriend killed the elderly lady who lived there. The girlfriend, who was 16yrs old at the time of the trial, did testify. Another more nationally known case would be that of South Park Mexican (SPM) where the victim, a 9yr old girl, testified as well.

[FLSPEC-VRACER18]

Originally posted by CheeseFrog
It may vary from state to state and I'm not sure how they do it in FL. In TX, minors can be held accountable for what they say and do, unless their age is at some extreme end, such as a 3yr old drowning his younger brother. In that type of case, yeah it's not unusual for the perpetrator to not be held accountable for his actions because of extenuating circumstances involving such things as his age. Here in TX a few months ago there was a case where a boyfriend/girlfriend duo forced their way into a house, and the boyfriend killed the elderly lady who lived there. The girlfriend, who was 16yrs old at the time of the trial, did testify. Another more nationally known case would be that of South Park Mexican (SPM) where the victim, a 9yr old girl, testified as well.

true that. its just too bad that usually minors dont testify cause of fear of the prosecution or defense turning the case from the defendent to them or vice versa. its happened before that a person has testified in a case....ust to have it turn into a case against them and they get arrested. so i guess thats why judges usually dont allow minors to testify. although i would really like to know the kids side of the story.

one other thing. when u testify u take an oath to tell the truth. a minor if he lies under investigation cant be held accountable for that cause of his age. i think that also plays a part in minors testifying