View Full Version : new thread: Road & Track's GT-R vs 911 Turbo vs Z06
Mods, please allow this thread to develop independently and then you can join it with the other GT-R thread later. Posters, please keep your comments factual. We already know the GT-R doesn't look like a Ferrari, so comments about it's looks will be looked upon as retarded. Post those comments in the other thread. This is about actual quantifiable facts ... posting about dealer markups and other such $100k references will reveal your gayness.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6594
Every once in a while, a car comes along with so much hype that not only does it capture the attention of car enthusiasts everywhere, it creates a frenzy among publications all over the world vying to be the first to drive it, test it and compare it with others. The Nissan GT-R is one such car. As usual, R&T was at the front of the line to drive, test and compare the U.S.-spec version of this very special car against its biggest rivals, the Chevrolet Corvette Z06 and Porsche 911 Turbo.
Regular readers of this publication no doubt remember seeing our first drive of the GT-R four months ago, when we evaluated a Japanese-spec version in Germany. There, we got a good idea of what the car was all about, but not the entire picture. We knew that the GT-R's performance would place it among the most elite 2+2s in the world...still, nothing prepared us for what was in store when Feature Editor Mike Monticello, R&T Specials Editor Andrew Bornhop and I took the first U.S.-spec GT-R along with the Corvette Z06 and 911 Turbo to the California countryside. We took on some of the trickiest mountain roads in the state and the challenging Buttonwillow Raceway (where former Nissan factory driver Steve Millen joined us). Here we discovered that not only did the GT-R measure up to the hype, it sliced it to pieces with a samurai sword.
2008 911 Turbo (http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6593)
Points: 380.7
Lap Times: 2:02.1
It's easy to see why people feel that there is no substitute for a Porsche after driving the 911 Turbo. This car seems to have it all, incredible performance, a high level of comfort, meticulous German engineering and the aura that comes from having a rich racing heritage. But it takes more than past laurels to win an R&T comparison test, and the 911 Turbo, which has won a share of them, found itself in the middle of a dogfight this time.
That Nissan engineers used the 911 Turbo as their benchmark is no secret. At every GT-R event we've attended, a Porsche 911 Turbo was always lurking in the background, presumably used by Nissan engineers as a target vehicle. They equaled the Porsche's 480-bhp 3.6-liter flat-6's output. This allows the 3710-lb. 911 Turbo to run to 60 mph in 3.4 seconds, good enough to match the Corvette and GT-R, but not enough to beat them. The race to the quarter-mile mark is virtually a dead heat, with both the 911 Turbo and Corvette getting the job done in 11.7 sec., and the GT-R coming home a hair-width behind.
"The 911 Turbo pulls like a proverbial freight train when on boost, but there is a slight bit of lag when compared with the GT-R's engine, best described as a gradual ramp-up power, as though the 911 has larger turbos than the GT-R," Bornhop said.
In the handling department, we came away somewhat disappointed with our silver Porsche. One would expect that with all-wheel drive, the 911 Turbo would gobble up sweepers and mid-speed corners, but it understeered significantly entering tight turns and oversteered through the faster stuff. Some of us felt that the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires might be a factor, while others pointed to the softly sprung suspension. Whatever the reason, the Porsche simply wasn't as sharp as the GT-R on winding mountain roads or at the racetrack.
"There's no denying that the 911 Turbo has a surprising lack of grip, despite awd. It predominantly understeered, seriously chewing up the front tires, and was quite tail-happy when trying to put the power down exiting corners," Monticello remarked.
The 911 Turbo did shine on the open highway. Its interior was easily the most luxurious of the three, with comfortable and supportive front seats and lots of leather. The Porsche ranked high in the category of "the car I would most like to drive across the country." On the negative side, there was excessive road noise at highway speed, and the small buttons for the radio/navigation/climate control made operation difficult while driving.
The 911 Turbo's price tag of $135,470 immediately puts it at a disadvantage in this test...the reality is that's the price one pays to drive, and be seen driving, Zuffenhausen's best. But when it comes to just the numbers, Japan's new super coupe has caught and surpassed the German thunder car, meaning that now, when you say Porsche, there is a substitute.
2008 Corvette Z06 (http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6592)
Points: 384.2
Lap Times: 2:02.2
In terms of best bang for the buck, the Chevrolet Corvette has long been the king of the hill. And with the high-performance Z06, it ruled the valleys, shores and flatlands as well. But has the time come for America's sports car to give up its throne?
No doubt, the Corvette's credentials are impressive: Producing 505 naturally aspirated bhp and 470 lb.-ft. of torque from its 7.0-liter V-8, the svelte Chevy packed the strongest punch of the group, while being the lightest on its feet, tipping the scales at a lean 3350 lb. It kept pace with the others to 60 mph, and then managed to set the fastest trap speed at the quarter-mile mark (123.7 mph), besting the 911 Turbo by 2.5 mph and the GT-R by 7.2. This just goes to show that although the Corvette couldn't get off the line as quickly as its awd competitors, once it got going, nothing here could touch it.
"I'll take a normally aspirated engine over a turbo any day, at least when it's this good. The Z06's engine has crazy power all the time, at any rpm, in any gear. And the sounds...come on, it's an American V-8, need I say more? It's the kind of power you can truly call 'neck-snapping,'" Monticello said.
The Corvette experienced a little more difficulty keeping pace with the others when the road started to bend. Despite the excellent grip provided by the fattest tires of the group — 275/35ZR-18s front and 325/30ZR-19s rear — and its state-of-the-art yaw-control system, the Z06's rear end danced around through low- and mid-speed corners. It did well to keep up with the Porsche at the racetrack, but the Vette had difficulty staying with the 911 Turbo and GT-R through sections of Highway 155 where the road is dusty and slick. But on a clean driving surface, the Corvette demonstrated why sports cars are traditionally rear-wheel drive, posting a neck-wrenching 0.99g around the skidpad and a 70.6-mph romp through the slalom.
"Anytime you put 505 bhp to the rear wheels, it presents a challenge. But GM has done a pretty good job here. With the traction/yaw control set to Competition Driving Mode, the Z06 allows more yaw than you might expect. Grip is good, but the car does like moving around a bit. It's more difficult to drive than the others, but very satisfying when done well," Bornhop said.
Despite lacking two rear seats, the Corvette proved an exceptional tourer. It exhibited an even ride, and the seats were comfortable though lacking in lateral support. The cockpit remains relatively quiet, with the engine being the loudest element, and that's a good thing.
We all agreed that the Corvette is the best-looking of the bunch. Its low, wide stance instantly implies that it means business. And when you consider its price tag of $79,595, the Corvette Z06 is still one of the best deals on the planet...only now, it may have company.
2008 GT-R (http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6591)
Points: 386.6
Lap Times: 1:56.9
We knew coming into this test that Nissan's GT-R was good; we just didn't know how good. Our world-exclusive first test of the U.S.-spec GT-R marks a significant occasion because it's the first time anyone has driven the car with its newly revised suspension tuning, and the first time the GT-R's performance is being compared head-to-head with its rivals'.
Where the GT-R shined brightest was at the racetrack. You can see from its lap times that it handed both the Chevrolet Corvette and Porsche 911 Turbo their respective lunches, working its way around Buttonwillow's challenging Race No. 13 configuration about 5 sec. faster than the others. We were all impressed with Nissan's twin-turbo 3.8-liter V-6 that produces 480 bhp at 6400 rpm and 434 lb.-ft. of torque from 3200 to 5200 rpm, mated to a rear-mounted 6-speed twin-clutch gearbox. The IHI turbos, mounted to the exhaust manifolds for quick response, provide 11.8 psi of boost, helping the GT-R reach 60 mph in 3.4 sec., and get to the quarter mile in 11.8 — right there with the others despite its test weight of 3960 lb.
"The power from the GT-R's engine is phenomenal. Not because it has so much of it, but because it's delivered in such a smooth, naturally aspirated fashion. The smaller turbos of the GT-R spool up more quickly than the Porsche's, giving the effect of no lag. Its engine note, however, doesn't stir my sensibilities the way the Z06's and the 911 Turbo's do," Monticello observed.
The GT-R's handling was in a league by itself. The suspension felt more compliant than the Japan-spec model's, yet still provided unbelievable stability through all variety of corners. Just when you think you feel the rear end coming out, stay on the throttle and let the ATTESA E-TS awd system do its thing. It'll immediately transfer as much as 50 percent of the engine torque to the front wheels (the torque split for normal driving is 2/98), stabilizing the car without sacrificing speed. The Nissan's handling balance is so spectacular that it registered 1.01g on the skidpad and romped through the slalom at an impressive 73.4 mph, about 3 mph faster than the others (and faster than the Ferrari Enzo).
"The GT-R responds best when thrown into corners with gusto. Under braking with a bit of turn to the steering wheel, the GT-R's back end will come into play to help you tighten the corner line a bit, but never so much as to make the car unstable. Steering effort is light, and the awd system takes much of the drama out of exiting corners," Bornhop remarked.
The GT-R also performed well on the open road, though we gave the nod to the Porsche 911 Turbo in this department. That said, we could easily live with the GT-R on a daily basis. The ride is solid, it's the only one here with a conventional trunk, and the seats are comfortable. The Dunlop SP Sports get noisy at highway speed, but other than this and an occasionally clunky low-speed shift, the GT-R is a capable daily commuter.
"There's plenty of room for a big guy and a back seat that can be used by shorter folks on the occasional run to lunch. The ride is on the harsh side, even with the suspension setting switched to full comfort. The various screens of the monitor are neat, though some of the materials here could be better. But could I spend all day in the car? You bet," Monticello said.
As for the car's styling, we like it, although there are others who feel that it looks too robot-like. But the bottom line here has little to do with the car's looks and everything to do with how it performed. Simply put, the GT-R is the most potent automobile to ever come from Japan, and will surely have manufacturers in America and Europe rethinking their ways. If it weren't for the car's $69,850 asking price (an estimated $72,880 for our test car) — and the fact it wears a Nissan badge — the GT-R might well be considered the most exotic car on the planet.
My synopsis: Nissan gets the job done much better for $10k cheaper than Chevrolet, $65.6k cheaper than Porsche. Does track times make it the better car? Not always, and I'm glad people have the creative freedom to buy whatever car their income can sustain.
I have response for every negative aspect of the GT-R you naysayers can throw at me. I have compiled a few responses which I know some of you idiots will come up with:
Comment: it isn't the panty dropper the other two are,
Response: only fags use that as actual criteria for buying a car. Be a real man.
Comment: the GT-R doesn't have the most gorgeous front end in the industry
Response: unless you're in one, chances are you'll be seeing more of it's rear end.
Comment: you can't mod a GT-R
Response: you don't think software can be altered to allow a different tire size? Does it need to be lowered? Does it need an aftermarket exhaust? I'm assuming someone serious enough to change out the one-piece turbo / headers will have considered a ROM reflash or an engine management upgrade.
Comment: it isn't $70k, dealerships will be asking $100k
Response: that's the dealership, and the market will help determine the asking price. Your logic is gay and your problem has to do with supply vs demand
Comment: you can't race on the street because of their stupid GPS lockout
Response: are you fucking Nick Hogan, you fucking faggot? Don't race on the street. Second of all, that lockout only applies to Japan. There will be no such lockout for North America so a GT-R owner would have the luxury of taking their car to a track
Comment: Z06s are doing 11 second quarter miles stock
Response: drag racing is boring, real men use a steering wheel
Comment: HD-DVD is better than Blu-Ray
Response: no it's not
koolaider
03-19-2008, 01:46 AM
Mods, please allow this thread to develop independently and then you can join it with the other GT-R thread later. Posters, please keep your comments factual. We already know the GT-R doesn't look like a Ferrari, so comments about it's looks will be looked upon as retarded. Post those comments in the other thread. This is about actual quantifiable facts ... posting about dealer markups and other such $100k references will reveal your gayness.
]
:rofl:
There was another one where they compared it to a GT3, Z06, and R8 at different scenario in the other GTR thread, both validate the GT-R like it or not.
koolaider
03-19-2008, 01:49 AM
You should add:
Comment: But sitting in a Nissan dealership all day is not worth the $100k due to dealers markup. If they badge the car Infiniti I would pay the extra money to sit in an infiniti dealership all day while getting my car serviced.
Response: :stare:
Comment: ha, the GT-R is a sloppy pig at 4000 lbs
Response: I don't see the weight in the lap times, so shut the hell up because it doesn't matter
Comment: I dunno, I know Miatas are light as fawk and they handle awesome!
Response: chassis stiffness, AWD, and a relatively low target MSRP all play a part in how heavy a vehicle will be. I'm certain 200 lbs can be shaved for a price.
the 2007 Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera will be coming to the U.S. and Lamborghini is collecting a healthy $220,300 for each example. This is about a $38,000 premium over the base price of a standard Gallardo, some $246.75 for each pound saved in weight reduction
Comment: why are you comparing a Nissan to a Lamborhgini?
Response: I apologize, it is apples and oranges. Nissans actually win races and have a pretty good racing heritage
Comment: but Nissan should have released the GT-R as an Infiniti
Response: Infiniti is a luxury brand, not a pricing structure. Yes, Infiniti dealerships are known for excellent service, but they are also known to mark up the price of parts that have Nissan equivalents.
I used to be against the Nissan GT-R in favor of an Infiniti GT-R, but if Nissan will be dedicating special service centers, then I can only imagine service centers gaining credibility and experienced technicians. Furthermore, I can forsee Infiniti coming out with an IS-F killer. I loooove me some Lexus, but Nissan does have the ability to make better sporty luxury cars. I'm almost reluctant to say it because I know Toyota fanboize are vicious.
94ExCoupe
03-19-2008, 02:42 AM
al your suport of this car is getting too die hard. kinda pathetic imo. its a nice car, but we dont need a "al desperately tries to defend his stance" thread
blackonblacksls
03-19-2008, 02:42 AM
seeing that really suprised the hell out of me.... but its not gonna be the drag/streetracer/fastest thing on the street people thought it was going to be... paul walker would obviously be better off in a z06 for those big money races... but it seems that all around it is one hell of a car.
al your suport of this car is getting too die hard. kinda pathetic imo. its a nice car, but we dont need a "al desperately tries to defend his stance" thread
actually not, it's to counter the die hard haterism that I wanted to dispel. Will I buy one, probably not, because for the money I'm going to get an M5. How's that for irony? Pathetic, the price of the car and the amount of performance it puts out should speak for itself, and yet there are people commenting about how the car is destined to fail. I'm just here to clear the air.
If you have any real GT-R comments, speak up.
nightracer
03-19-2008, 04:01 AM
Skylines have gotten a bad image because of the ricers. Truth be told, these cars are actually preceded by a stout reputation. A lot of people are trying to be cool and talk it down just to be against the JDM-kiddies. A lot of the JDM fanboys like the R34 over this new GTR. The R35 actually lives up to its hype whereas the R34 does not.
I'm not going to be too optimistic about the car but given the facts, I for damn sure will not be pessimistic about it anymore. Since when could a 4000 lb. car run a faster lap time than a 3400 lb. car? Thats amazing.
CarConnection
03-19-2008, 04:47 AM
impressive car, i'd be curious to know what turbo's it's using. take a quick gander at the respective compressor map and see where those puppies will top out at.
TXBlackout03
03-19-2008, 07:18 AM
I'm more impressed with how well the 'vette z06 stood up against the Porsche than anything else in this thread...
I truly expected it to do a lot worse than it did.
MaximaPower
03-19-2008, 11:18 AM
:thumb::rock:
+2 more for the GTR
so far, i dont think the GTR has loss in any comparison
I truly expected it to do a lot worse than it did.
It's pretty good validation for Nissan ... actually Japan as a whole. Now when Toyota and Honda come out with their sports cars, things are going to get exciting.
Jeebus
03-19-2008, 11:43 AM
Comment: it isn't the panty dropper the other two are,
Response: only fags use that as actual criteria for buying a car. Be a real man.
:rofl: Very true.
battousai
03-19-2008, 12:15 PM
impressive car, i'd be curious to know what turbo's it's using. take a quick gander at the respective compressor map and see where those puppies will top out at.
I too would like to know how much you could push these stock IHI turbos on the GTR.
Only some pics of it here.
http://2009gtr.blogspot.com/2008/02/r35-gt-r-turbo-get-to-know-your.html
If you click on one of the pics it'll take you the album of some of the stuff taken apart and on weights.
VQuick
03-19-2008, 12:48 PM
Now when Toyota and Honda come out with their sports cars, things are going to get exciting.
They'll both cost significantly more than the GT-R. The NSX replacement will probably be ~$100k, and the Lexus LF-A will be over $100k.
What happens when they get marked up? :weirdo: Those two will have to work very hard to earn their keep.
Siege
03-19-2008, 01:14 PM
I'm looking forward to it.
Chances are, I'll never even get to drive one simply because there are other cars I would rather have. Still though, the GT-R will truly be a sight to behold.
VolksFaggin
03-19-2008, 02:19 PM
They wrote for the GT-R
The IHI turbos, mounted to the exhaust manifolds for quick response
Where else did they expect to mount the turbos?
battousai
03-19-2008, 02:27 PM
Where else did they expect to mount the turbos?
I think they meant "integrated into the exhaust manifolds?" :dunno:
eN_2_Oh
03-19-2008, 02:32 PM
very impressive results indeed.
Nissan really stepped up to the benchmark this time, and surpassed all expectations with a reasonable amount of money invested.
props to Nissan for their innovation, and for putting the Japanese sports car back into the shinning light.
now to work for my own GT-R.
MoToHeAd125
03-19-2008, 02:52 PM
It's pretty good validation for Nissan ... actually Japan as a whole. Now when Toyota and Honda come out with their sports cars, things are going to get exciting.
Good luck to them, that is a big shoe to fill.
i-vtec195
03-19-2008, 03:16 PM
great article with great FACTS. :thumb:
We took on some of the trickiest mountain roads in the state and the challenging Buttonwillow Raceway (where former Nissan factory driver Steve Millen joined us).
Impressive, I wonder how the times would have varried with a racecar driver behind the wheel of all the cars? /thread :)
i-vtec195
03-19-2008, 04:12 PM
Impressive, I wonder how the times would have varried with a racecar driver behind the wheel of all the cars? /thread :)
wow, you really don't read any of this shit, do you?
the laps were ALL driven by the "racecar driver." :stare:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/0508_ct_OnTrack.pdf
but not at the same time, if that's the next thing that's got you stumped. :rofl:
i-vtec195
03-19-2008, 04:17 PM
Comment: HD-DVD is better than Blu-Ray
Response: no it's not
the universal head honcho is at it again... :roflmao:
wow, you really don't read any of this shit, do you?
the laps were ALL driven by the "racecar driver." :stare:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/0508_ct_OnTrack.pdf
but not at the same time, if that's the next thing that's got you stumped. :rofl:
HAHAHA..
Yeah who would have thought the Nissan driver got the best times in the Nissan. Facts..
i-vtec195
03-19-2008, 04:36 PM
HAHAHA..
Yeah who would have thought the Nissan driver got the best times in the Nissan. Facts..
if it's not one ignorant excuse, it's another.
if it's not one ignorant excuse, it's another.
Name calling again? I thought more of you dawg, I'm sorry I hurt your feelings by posting a fact.:gonk: Seriously...
i-vtec195
03-19-2008, 04:44 PM
Name calling again? I thought more of you dawg, I'm sorry I hurt your feelings by posting a fact.:gonk: Seriously...
:roflmao:
please, tell me, what did i call youthere?
:idea:
if it's not one ignorant excuse, it's another.
huuummmmmmm....... You're right totally clean.. Why do you continue to allow these threads? It's obvious you love the car as much as Al, but serioiusly the other thread is more than enough.
i-vtec195
03-19-2008, 04:51 PM
looks to me like the "excuse" was referred to as ignorant. did you fail english class in school? because i see no "zac," or "you" in there.
and for further clarification, i PROVED WITH FACT that this was an IGNORANT comment intended to de-rail the legitimacy of the thread:
Impressive, I wonder how the times would have varried with a racecar driver behind the wheel of all the cars? /thread :)
and i reply with:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/0508_ct_OnTrack.pdf
does anyone else in this thread NOT see what i did there? :idea:
looks to me like the "excuse" was referred to as ignorant. did you fail english class in school? because i see no "zac," or "you" in there.
Pretty sure when you quote someone you are talking directly to them unless otherwise said. Then again I'm no english teaher like you.
Also, after reading a little more I noticed they gave the GTR a perfect score for styling, while only giving the Porsche a 13. What a waste of perfectly clean paper.
PS, why do you allow these threads again? Isn't there already another thread for the GTR?
i-vtec195
03-19-2008, 04:56 PM
Also, after reading a little more I noticed they gave the GTR a perfect score for styling, while only giving the Porsche a 13. What a waste of perfectly clean paper.
fair enough. i think the drag coeficient was a key reason for the score, not the "prettyness."
Exterior Styling is under the subjective section. Drag coeficient's are not subjective, but visual aesthetics are.
They gave it a better score for subjective brakes too after it was out stopped by the Z06 from 80-0. As well as a 3-4 point raise over the competitors in "steering". How great is this steering? Is it 3-4 points better? I doubt it. The phrase "anything to win" comes to mind.
i-vtec195
03-19-2008, 05:04 PM
lap times are what impress me. :dunno:
lap times are what impress me. :dunno:
They impress me too, I bet Nissan is very happy that they sent that driver.
MoToHeAd125
03-19-2008, 05:54 PM
I love arguments on HI
yourmom25
03-19-2008, 07:27 PM
i love the gtr. i also love the z06. who the fuck cares which car is "better." the one that is better is the one that leaves you with a huge fucking grin every time you drive it.
It's nice to know how a car can do better while being sold for significantly less. Now tell me, why would a Corvette cost more? It's manufactured here ... there are no customs fees, no importing fees, imports are being sold here against a weaker dollar, and there is no contest between Japanese versus American engineering ... don't tell me fiber reinforced resins are exotic materials in the modern world .... Therefore this leads me to believe that the Z06 is priced artificially high because it enjoyed a niche market for a little while.
Oh, BTW Grubbs Nissan in Dallas presold their GT-Rs at MSRP. There aren't any more valid debates, the Japanese makes better cars than America, and are giving the Germans something to think about.
VolksFaggin
03-19-2008, 08:43 PM
They gave it a better score for subjective brakes too after it was out stopped by the Z06 from 80-0. As well as a 3-4 point raise over the competitors in "steering". How great is this steering? Is it 3-4 points better? I doubt it. The phrase "anything to win" comes to mind.
You make good points.
VolksFaggin
03-19-2008, 08:44 PM
It's nice to know how a car can do better while being sold for significantly less. Now tell me, why would a Corvette cost more? It's manufactured here ... there are no customs fees, no importing fees, imports are being sold here against a weaker dollar, and there is no contest between Japanese versus American engineering ... don't tell me fiber reinforced resins are exotic materials in the modern world .... Therefore this leads me to believe that the Z06 is priced artificially high because it enjoyed a niche market for a little while.
Oh, BTW Grubbs Nissan in Dallas presold their GT-Rs at MSRP. There aren't any more valid debates, the Japanese makes better cars than America, and are giving the Germans something to think about.
Unions?
TXBlackout03
03-20-2008, 08:55 AM
Unions?
bingo.
LOL @ Z06 costing 80k.. More like 72 with nav. I think this was a article written by Nissan for them to print. LOL! Nah, seriously though money talks and Nissan has a lot in marketing this car. I would too if I was them.
.
bingo.
Yup, that's probably the correct answer right there. Though I recently read about GM starting to buy out their union workers.
That would be great once it's all behind them.
VolksFaggin
03-20-2008, 05:35 PM
I heard the same thing. For the longest time, the Unions were forcing the company to keep certain employees because the buy out was so high, it wasn't worth it. These people would sit around in a speical room and play board games all day long.
GM #2 produced product after cars is health insurance for all the employees of the company. I don't hate unions, when they were helpful back in the day, but they have become to powerful for any good to come. The symbiotic relationship between union and company is being breached and the host fish will die soon, killing both creatures.
Poonkla
03-20-2008, 07:15 PM
Let me know when the Stig drives all three for a comparison.
Zac brings up some somewhat valid points this time. You are just as ignorant as you perceive him to be if you don't at least listen.
I have compiled a few responses which I know some of you idiots will come up with:
lol sorry but this sole statement made me :rofl:
Beretta
03-21-2008, 12:59 AM
imo
z06 > gt-r
but both are amazing, but both are on two completely different platforms to even compare
tenguin
03-21-2008, 02:58 AM
because the car is exclusive somewhat and the what it put out sure its a nice car, but it's still fugly.
it's the same arguement when the sti and evo was brought over here, people said the nicer cars would take a hit. those cars are still lil teeny bopper cars.
then again, its what you can afford and what you like. so who cares what other people think. how else did potiac even sell those ugly ass aztecs...lol
super cirrus
03-21-2008, 02:48 PM
They'll both cost significantly more than the GT-R. The NSX replacement will probably be ~$100k, and the Lexus LF-A will be over $100k.
What happens when they get marked up? :weirdo: Those two will have to work very hard to earn their keep.
same thing as the original nsx and supra...
super cirrus
03-21-2008, 02:49 PM
Let me know when the Stig drives all three for a comparison.
Zac brings up some somewhat valid points this time. You are just as ignorant as you perceive him to be if you don't at least listen.
screw that. Top gears is biased as hell. funny, but biased.
Agent S14
03-21-2008, 03:04 PM
Yup, that's probably the correct answer right there. Though I recently read about GM starting to buy out their union workers.
That would be great once it's all behind them.
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=832272
VolksFaggin
03-21-2008, 05:38 PM
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=832272
LOL Toyota will dropped their asses quick. The way they have the assembly process setup, any monkey could assemble the car.
-=E36=-
03-21-2008, 06:21 PM
wow Zac, you will do anything not to give the GTR credit. Its better than anyone thought was possible FOR THE PRICE. Clearly deserving all the hype thats its gotten. Don't be a sore loser, its lame.
I cant wait to start hearing HI posters say "WELL IF YOU TURBOCHARGE THE VETTE AND MAKE IT AWD IT WOULD TOTALLY BE SO MUCH FASTER THAN THE GTR"
David NA->FI
03-21-2008, 07:03 PM
wow Zac, you will do anything not to give the GTR credit. Its better than anyone thought was possible FOR THE PRICE. Clearly deserving all the hype thats its gotten. Don't be a sore loser, its lame.
I cant wait to start hearing HI posters say "WELL IF YOU TURBOCHARGE THE VETTE AND MAKE IT AWD IT WOULD TOTALLY BE SO MUCH FASTER THAN THE GTR"
LOL...+1:thumb:
Unions?
Sure, for the higher prices. But unions aren't to blame for inferior products.
BTW, this isn't a pro-Nissan crusade that I'm on. I'm more anti-American car for those of you who are clueless. Detroit makes about three good great cars, and to be honest with you the Vette is one of them.
Michael
03-21-2008, 10:09 PM
I read this article earlier today.
All I can say is before I read it, I skipped to the summary spreadsheet and viewed who won each category...and like every Road and Track test, the car that won had like 9 extra points in the subjective category and only beat 2nd place by 5 points...typical R&T.
I'm sure this thread is going to get ugly.
I was impressed by the lap time, I'd consider getting one but my next car is going to be a daily so my 8 can do exclusively track duty, like a 63amg or m5, so no need for the fastest lap time.
Michael
03-21-2008, 10:18 PM
After reading the comments...
I'm not the only one that cut though the bullshit. I have no idea why R&T can't just say, "The GT-R is a better track car, but lags behind in objective tests." It's fucking pointless to print better times and then, though some insecurity, find ways to make the points add up so the GT-R wins. Anyone with enough coin to even consider buying any of the three cars, at least if they're like me, will do their research beforehand. If they are a purist, they'll say "fuck the turbo" and buy a GT3RS. If they want to go arbitrarily fast in relation to skill level, they'll buy the GT-R which is clearly more forgiving than the Z06.
All in all, I'm very impressed with the GT-R, but very fucking annoyed at R&T for yet again having what can only be described as a lack of journalistic integrity.
Here's some pathos for you: I care least about what a car looks like, and most about what a car can do. The GT-R basically defies the laws of physics. I am impressed.
With that said, quit standing on _Zac's balls. He's never the most eloquent, never tiptoes as not to step on other peoples feet, and almost invites criticism and antagonism, but he's right. The numbers don't lie.
You are an astute observer, Michael. I'll step off his nuts when he admits he's been a dumbass this entire time. But the numbers do speak for themselves ... if a car does better on and off the track, how is reporting that by any means a lack of journalistic integrity? Please cite some examples.
If the GT-R did suck ass as many people expected, I would have made a thread about how much it sucks.
Mr. Stone
03-22-2008, 12:05 AM
_Zac will not admit he's wrong. Ever.
Data, repeated numbers and tests, are for the objective, not the subjective.
There is data, and then there is those subjective type that want to believe what they want.
_Zac is of the subjective type. He see's what he want's to see.
Mr. Stone
03-22-2008, 12:12 AM
_Zac will not admit he's wrong. Ever.
Data, repeated numbers and tests, are for the objective, not the subjective.
There is data, and then there is those subjective type that want to believe what they want.
_Zac is of the subjective type. He see's what he want's to see.
To add. The Z06 got beat...twice.
It's all over but the crying.
LabtopThief_jr.
03-22-2008, 01:07 AM
i just cant wait for top gear to get their hands on this beast and REALLY test it to its maximum potential
Michael
03-22-2008, 09:40 AM
You are an astute observer, Michael. I'll step off his nuts when he admits he's been a dumbass this entire time. But the numbers do speak for themselves ... if a car does better on and off the track, how is reporting that by any means a lack of journalistic integrity? Please cite some examples.
If the GT-R did suck ass as many people expected, I would have made a thread about how much it sucks.
You don't need to, he's asking for it. I just don't like the bandwagon mentality. I only gave one so I will only cite one, the very virtue that subjective categories like styling decided this. I'd be elated if they tossed it out and graded by just the track tests [slalom, braking, 1/4, lap time, 0-60, even 60-130 lol], and the GT-R should still win. Basically, I think that what they're doing is deceptive, even if it doesn't change the results. This is not the first time subjective categories have arbitrarily picked a winner, whether I agree with the subjective judgments...just read the readers letters every once in a while, this has become a common problem in R&T and most other car mags I read monthly.
_Zac will not admit he's wrong. Ever.
Data, repeated numbers and tests, are for the objective, not the subjective.
There is data, and then there is those subjective type that want to believe what they want.
_Zac is of the subjective type. He see's what he want's to see.
How can you say that when he and I have both pointed out the funny, and subjective, math. I'll be the first to admit he's belligerently subjective, but his argument is not. [at least the one regarding the tallying of "points"]
To add. The Z06 got beat...twice.
It's all over but the crying.
It's not over for me. If it's one thing my father taught me, it's to never buy anything but the top of the line, or the biggest engine offered in the car you're buying. In this case, R&T [at no fault of their own, I might add], did not take the cars that I'd like to see tested against the GT-R out to California. I for one, can't wait to see the ZR1, the GT2, and the GT-R go at it. I'm actually not saying that the ZR1 or GT2 will win, because I know how much a 5 second differential is on track. But it'll still be the right comparo, in my eyes [although the results will be the same, and the price differentials will be EVEN MORE impressive, for what you're getting!]
i just cant wait for top gear to get their hands on this beast and REALLY test it to its maximum potential
I can't wait to see them out at TWS. The winner of TX2K8 at TWS was a C6Z06, that ran 1:50, which is what the Cup Cars were running last weekend at the PCA Club Race. You probably can't comprehend how fast that is, the fastest I've run [granted, with 170whp] is 2:03, and I was flying past the large majority of advanced group.
mikesrex
03-22-2008, 10:57 AM
I read this article earlier today.
All I can say is before I read it, I skipped to the summary spreadsheet and viewed who won each category...and like every Road and Track test, the car that won had like 9 extra points in the subjective category and only beat 2nd place by 5 points...typical R&T.
I'm sure this thread is going to get ugly.
I was impressed by the lap time, I'd consider getting one but my next car is going to be a daily so my 8 can do exclusively track duty, like a 63amg or m5, so no need for the fastest lap time.
Don't worry man. Eventually someone will do an unbiased, objective comparison between cars such as the Z06 and GTR.
Michael
03-22-2008, 10:59 AM
Don't worry man. Eventually someone will do an unbiased, objective comparison between cars such as the Z06 and GTR.
I just want a ride, it's like comparing a C6Z06 to a GT-R...no matter which one you buy...you always win :Goofy:
It's easy to spot those that hate me on this site. For the most part they tend to not be very open minded, and are easily pushed to name calling / personal bashing. In a true debate that's normally a last ditch effort in a losing battle.
I just find it funny how much some of these aforementioned types want this thing to work. It's like you're trying to plug an American phone charger into a European wall socket all the while insisting you're right because you say so. In the end you just look silly for trashing others valid opinions here. If everyone could express themselves like Micheal this section would be a lot less insulting for true enthusiasts.
All and all I'm baked from TX2K8 so I'll check back here later because I'm sure there are plenty more names to be called and feeling to be hurt. lol
Mr. Stone
03-23-2008, 01:21 AM
I've never resulted to name calling, _Zac. I just call it as I see it.
It just seems you want to make the results into what you want.
The numbers, from Japan and America, speak for themselves.
Micheal points out 'subjective' math, but why would an American mag want to defeat their own?
TXBlackout03
03-23-2008, 07:15 AM
I've never resulted to name calling, _Zac. I just call it as I see it.
It just seems you want to make the results into what you want.
The numbers, from Japan and America, speak for themselves.
Micheal points out 'subjective' math, but why would an American mag want to defeat their own?
Honestly, are you serious? How many people on this one site hate anything made by american companies? Don't you think that would obviously carry over into magazines and other editorials by people who think the same way? People have opinions and will state them in any matter or form even if they look like a moron.
See Foxnews for more examples.
You have a brand new unreleased car vs a 3yr old supercar and people are shitting themselves over how great the GT-R is doing. Holy shit, a brand new car that was designed from the ground up to decimate anything on the market today is actually doing it!
But yeah, I'll be looking for the TopGear episode on this subject. Thats all I have to say.
i-vtec195
03-23-2008, 10:52 AM
I for one, can't wait to see the ZR1, the GT2, and the GT-R go at it. I'm actually not saying that the ZR1 or GT2 will win, because I know how much a 5 second differential is on track.
also keep in mind that that would be a match up against a base gtr. nissan's already acknowledged working on upgraded trims of the car.
-=E36=-
03-23-2008, 11:36 AM
It's easy to spot those that hate me on this site. For the most part they tend to not be very open minded, and are easily pushed to name calling / personal bashing. In a true debate that's normally a last ditch effort in a losing battle.
I just find it funny how much some of these aforementioned types want this thing to work. It's like you're trying to plug an American phone charger into a European wall socket all the while insisting you're right because you say so. In the end you just look silly for trashing others valid opinions here. If everyone could express themselves like Micheal this section would be a lot less insulting for true enthusiasts.
Dude man, you just described yourself in that paragraph.....
FWIW, _Zac, I don't hate you and although I have stated my opinion of you, I don't recall calling you any names. But -=E36=- is on point, you do fit that description.
How many people on this one site hate anything made by american companies?
You probably aren't reading people correctly. American made aftermarket parts imo are just as good as (or better than) JDM parts. That's why my import's engine has Crower rods, JE pistons, a domestically fabbed exhaust manifold, a Precision turbo, and nearly a fully American cylinder head. My jeans are Levis and not Girbaud :rofl: I almost bought that Dyson but I bought the Hoover instead. It's not anti-American sentiment, it's people tired of Lee Iacoccanism.
Agent S14
03-24-2008, 02:16 PM
FWIW, _Zac, I don't hate you and although I have stated my opinion of you, I don't recall calling you any names. But -=E36=- is on point, you do fit that description.
You probably aren't reading people correctly. American made aftermarket parts imo are just as good as (or better than) JDM parts. That's why my import's engine has Crower rods, JE pistons, a domestically fabbed exhaust manifold, a Precision turbo, and nearly a fully American cylinder head. My jeans are Levis and not Girbaud :rofl: I almost bought that Dyson but I bought the Hoover instead. It's not anti-American sentiment, it's people tired of Lee Iacoccanism.
I like handguns made in america:thumb:
i-vtec195
03-24-2008, 02:21 PM
I like handguns made in america:thumb:
and porn. :idea:
TXBlackout03
03-24-2008, 02:42 PM
How would the GT-R stack up against the new Viper? Serious question because that thing is scary fast as shit. Putting 570whp stock...
:Ohnoez:
Ak1m0to
03-24-2008, 02:43 PM
There is a great video on youtube where a british guy tested the GT-R, his own M3, and the 911 turbo.
i-vtec195
03-24-2008, 02:52 PM
How would the GT-R stack up against the new Viper? Serious question because that thing is scary fast as shit. Putting 570whp stock...
:Ohnoez:
i saw a feature on that new track edition they had. wasn't anything mind boggling.
VQuick
03-24-2008, 04:45 PM
HAHAHA..
Yeah who would have thought the Nissan driver got the best times in the Nissan. Facts..
You like facts, eh?
Posted on 6speedonline:I hate to interrupt your conspiracy theory here, but Steve Millen has been a test driver for Road & Track reviews for years. Take this article for example, not one single Nissan in the lineup, yet R&T used Steve Millen as their test driver for all of the cars:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/08/01/h...in-0-200-dash/
And don’t forget this one from 2005:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=1949
Strange, the Corvette gets 1st, the Porsche’s get 2nd and 3rd place, while the Nissan in that test only gets 8th place. By your theory, shouldn't the Nissan have won since clearly it is his "favorite"?
Looks like they even called on Millen back in 2002 when testing the F40, F1, and 959:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....article_id=392
And yes, Millen drove Nissans in IMSA, but in the ~40 years since he began his professional racing career, he has also driven for the following manufacturers:
Jaguar
BMW
Ford
Triumph
GM
Toyota
And last but not least
Porsche
http://www.stillen.com/page.asp?heritage1
BTW, here is an interesting part of his career from '79:
Professional driver for General Motors Dealer Team
Looks like the Z06 should have beaten the Porsche by 5 seconds in this test as well, since he was at one time employed directly by GM.
In addition, Car and Driver got their hands on a GT-R as well. Even with a 3900lb+ test weight, they managed an 11.5 et @124mph. Best of all, this was on the all-season Dunlops, not the stickier Bridgestone summer tires used for the 7'38" Nurburgring laps. :ninja:
Michael
03-24-2008, 05:19 PM
You like facts, eh?
Posted on 6speedonline:
In addition, Car and Driver got their hands on a GT-R as well. Even with a 3900lb+ test weight, they managed an 11.5 et @124mph. Best of all, this was on the all-season Dunlops, not the stickier Bridgestone summer tires used for the 7'38" Nurburgring laps. :ninja:
You're on 6speed?
Wewt.
Has the 7'38" been repeated? honestly, not a challenge, I just don't follow this stuff closely enough to know if they ever confirmed that it's repeatable with a stock car.
VQuick
03-24-2008, 08:30 PM
You're on 6speed?
Wewt.
Has the 7'38" been repeated? honestly, not a challenge, I just don't follow this stuff closely enough to know if they ever confirmed that it's repeatable with a stock car.
Nah, I'm not on 6speed. I was on another board, and someone quoted it there.
I'm not aware of many who have tried to repeat the 'Ring lap. I know Sport Auto did, and were a few seconds behind. They tend to be higher than manufacturer claims across the board, though.
I'm not even sure if they had a car without the limiter or not. If they had a JP-spec car, the limiter would be active(doesn't know it's in Europe, let alone a track). That would hurt lap times quite a bit. I really don't think they'd bother going for a hot lap if that were the case.
I will add though, that the time(or something near it) should be repeatable by an experienced driver. A speed-limited GT-R was tested by the UK mag evo, and was almost a second faster around their test circuit than a 997 GT3(runs a 7'39" at the 'Ring). Interestingly, the GT-R's lap at the Bedford Autodrome is a little over a second behind an Enzo. :hsugh:
Michael
03-24-2008, 10:36 PM
Nah, I'm not on 6speed. I was on another board, and someone quoted it there.
I'm not aware of many who have tried to repeat the 'Ring lap. I know Sport Auto did, and were a few seconds behind. They tend to be higher than manufacturer claims across the board, though.
I'm not even sure if they had a car without the limiter or not. If they had a JP-spec car, the limiter would be active(doesn't know it's in Europe, let alone a track). That would hurt lap times quite a bit. I really don't think they'd bother going for a hot lap if that were the case.
I will add though, that the time(or something near it) should be repeatable by an experienced driver. A speed-limited GT-R was tested by the UK mag evo, and was almost a second faster around their test circuit than a 997 GT3(runs a 7'39" at the 'Ring). Interestingly, the GT-R's lap at the Bedford Autodrome is a little over a second behind an Enzo. :hsugh:
If you are referencing the video, I watched a comparo between the GT3 and the GT-R, and the driver fucking sucked at life, in both cars. It looked like someone had tossed a 16 year old fresh out of seeing Tokyo Drift the keys...it was torn to shreds in the GT3 forum on 6speed, understandably.
Cars need to be tested at their limits. Very few drivers are going to be able to drive both equally well.
Michael
03-24-2008, 10:37 PM
This is the video I believe you referenced:
http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetevovideos/217626/116_nissan_gtr_v_porsche_gt3.html
Any experienced driver laughs at the stupidity.
BoostedTypeS
03-24-2008, 11:18 PM
wow. . . i didnt expect the gt-r to be that quick
Apx_632
03-24-2008, 11:52 PM
Well that validates the performance so far it seems of this car.
VQuick
03-25-2008, 07:06 AM
If you are referencing the video, I watched a comparo between the GT3 and the GT-R, and the driver fucking sucked at life, in both cars. It looked like someone had tossed a 16 year old fresh out of seeing Tokyo Drift the keys...it was torn to shreds in the GT3 forum on 6speed, understandably.
Cars need to be tested at their limits. Very few drivers are going to be able to drive both equally well.
The driver may not have been the best, but there is something to be said for consistency.
Rampage
03-25-2008, 08:11 AM
This is the video I believe you referenced:
http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetevovideos/217626/116_nissan_gtr_v_porsche_gt3.html
Any experienced driver laughs at the stupidity.
:thumb: I really like that you actually back up your arguments. Watch the video below it's also of a GT3 and GTR and give your opinion.
Chris Harris times the GT-R and 911 GT3 and new M3.
GTR comes out in front over the GT3 and M3.
During the actual video, he stated that he ran the GTR against 911 Turbo in an earlier segmant and the GTR easily beat it. So this time he compared it to the GT3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjwJl4t-DF8 - part one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzEivL1Kruo - part two
TXBlackout03
03-25-2008, 09:16 AM
:thumb: I really like that you actually back up your arguments. Watch the video below it's also of a GT3 and GTR and give your opinion.
Chris Harris times the GT-R and 911 GT3 and new M3.
GTR comes out in front over the GT3 and M3.
During the actual video, he stated that he ran the GTR against 911 Turbo in an earlier segmant and the GTR easily beat it. So this time he compared it to the GT3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjwJl4t-DF8 - part one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzEivL1Kruo - part two
How many fucking times is this going to be posted. God damnit read the thread you moron!
Apx_632
03-25-2008, 10:22 AM
How would the GT-R stack up against the new Viper? Serious question because that thing is scary fast as shit. Putting 570whp stock...
:Ohnoez:
Against the normal 08 viper I'd think a GT-R could possibly beat it. Against the 08 ACR trim viper I think the ACR would take it.
Michael
03-25-2008, 11:57 AM
The driver may not have been the best, but there is something to be said for consistency.
I agree. Consistently bad gives one view, with a common driver, at least.
However, I pose the question:
Which car, the GT3 or GT-R, do you think is easier to pilot for someone new to both cars?
I know that I was able to go arbitrarily fast at TWS early on [2:03 in Blue Group in a car with 170 hp] because I left stability control on. It's a guardian angel that fixes your mistakes for you. No such system exists in the GT3 [at least in the RS version, I actually don't know or own a GT3, sadly, so I can't speak from experience]. I also have no experience in a GT-R, obviously, so this next segment is benchracing/hearsay: It is touted to be a technological marvel that allows for a pretty hefty car to do things normally reserved for lighter cars, along with consistently perfect shifts, etc. Is this true?
Back to my original question, as to which is easier to drive:
Say the driver from the evo video that I posted learned how to drive. Do you think that he would gain more time in the GT-R, compared to his virgin lap? or do you think that he would gain more in the GT3? [this question isn't rhetorical or meant to lead you to a single end...quite frankly he drives the GT-R extremely poorly (I have experience in AWD cars on track) so there is also a ton of room for improvement in that vehicle]
I have love for all of you.
Michael
03-25-2008, 12:00 PM
Against the normal 08 viper I'd think a GT-R could possibly beat it. Against the 08 ACR trim viper I think the ACR would take it.
There is no viper on the planet, that would run the times at the ring that the GT-R is touted to run, from the factory.
The closest to metal to metal contact/death I've ever come to on track was when a guy with a viper thought it would be a good idea to try and turn. Vipers are a joygasm, don't get me wrong, when used properly.
Viper: use as directed....mash pedal.
Rampage
03-25-2008, 04:41 PM
How many fucking times is this going to be posted. God damnit read the thread you moron!
This is the video I believe you referenced:
http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetevovideos/217626/116_nissan_gtr_v_porsche_gt3.html
Any experienced driver laughs at the stupidity.
If your stupid ass is referring to this... different driver, different magazine.
Link me to where my link was posted at in this thread.
Do it.
Thanks.
If you're referring to the other Nissan GTR thread then yeah it's there. However I would like to know what Michael thought of this guy's driving in the GT3 and GTR.
Michael
03-25-2008, 05:24 PM
If your stupid ass is referring to this... different driver, different magazine.
Link me to where my link was posted at in this thread.
Do it.
Thanks.
If you're referring to the other Nissan GTR thread then yeah it's there. However I would like to know what Michael thought of this guy's driving in the GT3 and GTR.
It's honestly hard for me to tell, but at least he knows how to drive the line of the track.
What are the power to weights on both cars? the GT3 makes what, 350 wheel?
Rampage
03-25-2008, 08:01 PM
It's honestly hard for me to tell, but at least he knows how to drive the line of the track.
What are the power to weights on both cars? the GT3 makes what, 350 wheel?
Less power than GTR yeah but weighs a lot less too. I'm not sure of the exact power made to the wheels but it's rated at 415hp. People actually says the GT3 is faster around a track than the 911 Turbo so why don't you compare it with the GTR as well.
It makes sense to me. I know the 911 Turbo is the GTR direct competition but if the GT3 is faster than the Turbo - it should be more of a challenge. Seems like it.
Even though I sound like I'm all in love with the GTR - i'm not. Sure it's faster than the 911 Turbo and GT3, but given the choice to choose between the three, i'd definitely choose both Turbo and GT3 over GTR. Unless, of course, I had to pay then the GTR is definitely more of a bang for the buck.
VQuick
03-26-2008, 06:59 AM
However, I pose the question:
Which car, the GT3 or GT-R, do you think is easier to pilot for someone new to both cars?
Well, that begets another question. New to only those cars, or new to, say, the rear-engine layout common to 911s? I'd say familiarity with the layout will make a big difference.
I know that I was able to go arbitrarily fast at TWS early on [2:03 in Blue Group in a car with 170 hp] because I left stability control on. It's a guardian angel that fixes your mistakes for you. No such system exists in the GT3 [at least in the RS version, I actually don't know or own a GT3, sadly, so I can't speak from experience].
I beleive the GT3 is the first version to be available with PASM(Porsche Active Stability Management). I'm not sure if it's a feature on the GT3 RS, however. It can help a lot, but for those who prefer less interference, it can be shut off.
Back to my original question, as to which is easier to drive:
Say the driver from the evo video that I posted learned how to drive. Do you think that he would gain more time in the GT-R, compared to his virgin lap? or do you think that he would gain more in the GT3?
Again, I think it would depend on the familiarity with 911s in general. If the driver has been in a few, then there might not be a huge potential for improvement, simply because he would have driven a pretty decent lap to begin with. The GT-R is totally new, so I'd imagine slightly larger gains.
i'd definitely choose both Turbo and GT3 over GTR. Unless, of course, I had to pay then the GTR is definitely more of a bang for the buck.
Haha, yes ... paying for it is a huge factor.
i-vtec195
03-26-2008, 04:22 PM
Haha, yes ... paying for it is a huge factor.
if i were buying any as a recreational vehicle, i'd just want the one i'd post the fastest lap times in. :dunno:
I'd want the one that looks good and is fun to drive.
Porsche would be at the front of that list.
Some people can justify buying a $130k car, some people's wives will only let them get the $70k one. If money weren't an object, I'm with you on the Porsche.
They are just plain sexy.. Just don't let anyone convince you to install their 700 kit on one. :( Injectors are a bbbbbiiiiiiiitcccchhhh..
Rampage
03-26-2008, 08:12 PM
Some people can justify buying a $130k car, some people's wives will only let them get the $70k one. If money weren't an object, I'm with you on the Porsche.
YUP! There's a difference in "I own a Porsche" and "I own a Nissan" :thumb:
If money was no object I wouldn't even consider the GTR unless I wanted a track car.
_Zac, I agree Porsche looks better but how do you know it's funnier to drive? You've driven the GTR?
Edit: I don't mean to sound like an ass. lol
AWD, no manual, and enough bs electronics to choke a donkey. Where's the tail happy goodness in that? Seriously I bet it is fun to drive, but as fun as a Porsche or even a 300 hp 240, doubt it. lol
VolksFaggin
03-27-2008, 05:51 PM
Automatic = Auto Fail
VQuick
03-27-2008, 07:53 PM
AWD, no manual, and enough bs electronics to choke a donkey. Where's the tail happy goodness in that?
The GT-R's awd system is often misunderstood. There is a reason why the R32 GT-R was nearly able to drift the entire final corner of the Tsukuba Circuit. :hsugh:
If you want to just be fast, the GT-R will do that. If you want to showboat and have some fun, it can still play ball.
arkive43
03-27-2008, 08:56 PM
AWD, no manual, and enough bs electronics to choke a donkey. Where's the tail happy goodness in that? Seriously I bet it is fun to drive, but as fun as a Porsche or even a 300 hp 240, doubt it. lol
DID YOU JUST GIVE PROPS TO A 240!!!!:eek9:
Rampage
03-27-2008, 09:33 PM
AWD, no manual, and enough bs electronics to choke a donkey. Where's the tail happy goodness in that? Seriously I bet it is fun to drive, but as fun as a Porsche or even a 300 hp 240, doubt it. lol
Good response. :thumb:
There has been debates on whether the GTR is too technical and have way too much electronics that many will not use.
Them Japaneses and their technologies. :hsugh:
arkive43
03-27-2008, 09:41 PM
porsche has similar TC that u cant disable ....:stare:
Michael
03-28-2008, 02:28 AM
Automatic = Auto Fail
unless it's an F430...9/10 are F1...
6speeds are fundamentally flawed, as they're operated by us.
the GT-R is a car that Nick Hogan can't put his buddy in critical condition in.
Dopavash
03-28-2008, 02:07 PM
Oh I dunno, as much rolling steel as he's put into inanimate objects, I bet her could find a way.
FbodTrek
03-28-2008, 04:35 PM
Oh I dunno, as much rolling steel as he's put into inanimate objects, I bet her could find a way.
Most amusing comment in this thread :)
I'm not at all surprised by the times posted. I'm not one of those people that could drive these cars at their limits (and I'm willing to bet 99.9% of the people on this site are the same), so I don't give a shit about lap times when they are that close on such a large track. i DO car about daily drive ability though. The Vette is a comfy car IMO. I've never sat in a newer 911, but the last one I sat in was pretty...claustrophobic...or at least it felt that way. I figure I could make a shitload of power with a reg ole LS series motor fairly easily, but it'd take some serious cash to dive into that GTR's mill. From the perspective of someone who can't leave an engine alone, my money would go to the Vette. The GTR is an amazing machine, but I gotta say...that's alot of electrons there...electrons scare me :hs:
VQuick
03-28-2008, 08:06 PM
I figure I could make a shitload of power with a reg ole LS series motor fairly easily, but it'd take some serious cash to dive into that GTR's mill.
Are you kidding? This is a GT-R we're talking about.
Powerhouse Amuse has already dynoed 610ps on a Dynapack. :hsugh:
He isn't saying it can't make power, he's saying it will be expensive and hard to do. Anything can make power by throwing money at it.
i-vtec195
03-29-2008, 01:50 PM
VQ series motors seem to make power just fine with minimal mods...
Yes, in 350z's...
You haven't factored in the "GTR Tax".
i-vtec195
03-29-2008, 01:55 PM
probably will be a little bit of gouging until the new wears off.
Michael
03-29-2008, 02:59 PM
New ideas, after contemplation [buying a new car over the summer in the 70k price range]:
When it really comes down to it, for my purposes [track car], the GTR is way too heavy @ 4000 lbs. But there is an appeal:
Why pay 200k for a ferrari or lambo [the lambo, except for the 3300 lb superleggara, also has a weight problem, which is why the gallardos run faster than the murci's] and take a chance of wrecking a beautiful piece of automotive history when I can buy a car that's just as capable for 70k.
Honestly, I see pictures like this:
http://carview-img01.bmcdn.jp/carlife/images/UserDiary/8251157/P1.jpg
I think it looks just as good as OEM...
I think the funniest part of me arguing in this thread is that I'd buy the Vette last, of these 3 cars. Having seen a plethora of wrecks in my day, the only car that fares worse than an NSX or RX-8 is a corvette.
_Zac...some food for thought:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.aspx?AR=231915&CT=V
GT2, ZR1, GTR [track trim, like the one with racing seats that Mr. Millen drove...] ... I'll be waiting.
I've not seen another video on the net of ANY car that has walked a Z06 like that. In stock form.
VQuick
03-29-2008, 06:39 PM
He isn't saying it can't make power, he's saying it will be expensive and hard to do. Anything can make power by throwing money at it.
Other than the Amuse exhaust being made from titanium, the mods probably weren't that expensive. :hsugh:
In general, modifying a car with FI from the factory will be easier and less expensive than an NA engine.
The turbos have yet to be modified on the GT-R as well.
New ideas, after contemplation [buying a new car over the summer in the 70k price range]:
When it really comes down to it, for my purposes [track car], the GTR is way too heavy @ 4000 lbs. But there is an appeal:
Why pay 200k for a ferrari or lambo [the lambo, except for the 3300 lb superleggara, also has a weight problem, which is why the gallardos run faster than the murci's] and take a chance of wrecking a beautiful piece of automotive history when I can buy a car that's just as capable for 70k.
Honestly, I see pictures like this:
I think it looks just as good as OEM...
I think the funniest part of me arguing in this thread is that I'd buy the Vette last, of these 3 cars. Having seen a plethora of wrecks in my day, the only car that fares worse than an NSX or RX-8 is a corvette.
_Zac...some food for thought:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.aspx?AR=231915&CT=V
GT2, ZR1, GTR [track trim, like the one with racing seats that Mr. Millen drove...] ... I'll be waiting.
I've not seen another video on the net of ANY car that has walked a Z06 like that. In stock form.
I actually was going to post that video in a new thread yesterday, but I've been installing a 700 kit on Powells P-car so I haven't had the time.
To me that's a very impressive video. The GT2 both hooks, and pulls harder than the vette. Could be something wrong with that vette with how ragged out it was, but I doubt it. We will see once they hit the street. Either way both cars are. :bowdown:
Other than the Amuse exhaust being made from titanium, the mods probably weren't that expensive. :hsugh:
In general, modifying a car with FI from the factory will be easier and less expensive than an NA engine.
The turbos have yet to be modified on the GT-R as well.
Many ti catbacks from japan go for 10-20k. How is that inexpensive? Though you will normally gain more power when "tuning" a FI car, the cost is only relevant to the vehicle. IE my cobra will gain a ton with a tune, so will a Porsche, or a Diesel truck for that matter. The Porsche tunes are three to four times more, but why? Because it's a Porsche.:idea:
That's going to happen to the GTR as well.
Michael
03-30-2008, 03:32 PM
I actually was going to post that video in a new thread yesterday, but I've been installing a 700 kit on Powells P-car so I haven't had the time.
To me that's a very impressive video. The GT2 both hooks, and pulls harder than the vette. Could be something wrong with that vette with how ragged out it was, but I doubt it. We will see once they hit the street. Either way both cars are. :bowdown:
Yeah, i'm not sure if you're on 6speed or not, but powell said he had to fix his car and his brother's vette before tx2k8, hopefully it worked out for them.
unless it's an F430...9/10 are F1...
6speeds are fundamentally flawed, as they're operated by us.
but those transmissions are essential manuals with an automatic mode... the default is you do the shifting but you gotta push a button to tell the tranny to do it by itself
super cirrus
03-30-2008, 05:45 PM
unless it's an F430...9/10 are F1...
6speeds are fundamentally flawed, as they're operated by us.
Since we're so flawed, making a car that does everythig for us is the best solution, right? Won't those be fun to drive...
Scary thing is, bmw has a car that can drive itself (seen it on top gear), and there are so many safety gadgets in cars now, it does nothing but make the driver worse. Personally, I'd rather people just learn be better drivers than relying on the car to save their ass. Guess thats why im not the biggest fan of the gtr or the evo X. Impressive displays of technology and outstanding vehicles, but just not my style.
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