AE86 engine swaps

[Mobil1]

heres a question for all you trueno freaks out there...

if i were to buy an AE86 sprinter or levin trueno...what are the possble swaps for the engine?

the 4ag was a great motor back in the day, but high miles and abuse make me think swapping would be much easier than re-building the original motor.


how about a 3sgte? would it fit in a trueno engine bay? :confused:



btw: yall know any people selling truenos? :D i want :thumb:

[VQuick]

I dunno if you wanna stick with Toyota engines or not, but a 3S-GTE should fit. Since it's just another 4-banger, at least the engine will fit okay. The turbo and IC piping might give you some trouble, though.

If you feel like sticking with a 4A-GE, you can get either the silvertop or blacktop 20v motor. The supercharged 4A-GZE is an option too. Both of these engines are found in the newer fwd AE101/AE111 Corolla. If you decide to swap in a fwd engine, you might need to do some cutting into the firewall.

Some people have crated drag setups with 7M-GTEs and 2JZ-GTEs.

I suppose you could try an engine from something other than a Toyota. An SR20DET wouldn't be too bad.

Oh, and you can't get a Levin here. The U.S. got a car that is somewhat similar to a Trueno. It isn't quite a real Trueno, but it's closer to that than a Levin. A while ago, I saw someone here(Secret Agent?) selling Levin and Trueno front clips for like, $3k I think. It's not a bad deal, considering you have the parts to do the Levin front end conversion, and you'll get a lower mileage 4A-GE.

[McFly]

www.club-4ag.com

the ae86 will allow the 3sgte motor to fit without a problem, the corolla has the same EXACT amount of space under the hood, just as the all-trac celicas do and they have the 3sgte. all 4ag series are an easy drop in, as for the high mileage, the 3sgte, the only problem with high mileage is the turbo, the motor will run to 250k with no problem.

bryan

www.3sgte.com

[CovertPenguin]

Originally posted by VQuick
I dunno if you wanna stick with Toyota engines or not, but a 3S-GTE should fit. Since it's just another 4-banger, at least the engine will fit okay. The turbo and IC piping might give you some trouble, though.

If you feel like sticking with a 4A-GE, you can get either the silvertop or blacktop 20v motor. The supercharged 4A-GZE is an option too. Both of these engines are found in the newer fwd AE101/AE111 Corolla. If you decide to swap in a fwd engine, you might need to do some cutting into the firewall.

Some people have crated drag setups with 7M-GTEs and 2JZ-GTEs.

I suppose you could try an engine from something other than a Toyota. An SR20DET wouldn't be too bad.

Oh, and you can't get a Levin here. The U.S. got a car that is somewhat similar to a Trueno. It isn't quite a real Trueno, but it's closer to that than a Levin. A while ago, I saw someone here(Secret Agent?) selling Levin and Trueno front clips for like, $3k I think. It's not a bad deal, considering you have the parts to do the Levin front end conversion, and you'll get a lower mileage 4A-GE.

um.. the 3sgte is "just" as good as any SR20DET.. plus the j spec 3sgte's come with 550cc injectoors and a better fuel pump also with a turbo that is capable of of 350 to the ground ,with just bolt ones i also have dyno numbers to back that up. The SR20DET can't push out 350+ without more work plus 3sgte is "toyota" why the hell would u buy a nissan engine to put in a toyota?? kind of blasmpheous(sp) to me ... ceramic turbo on the 3sgte too with a system called twin entry (sr20 does not have this)

http://www.egarrett.com/technology/tech_twin_scroll.jsp?justlist=1

putting a 7mgte or any other inline 6 in a trueno would cripple its suspension.... and its weight balance

[CovertPenguin]

also.. Nissan sucks thank you...there are some exceptions to my statment but the VQ is not one hahaha:roflmao:

[midnightblue]

I have an mr2 first gen and I 4age in it right now. I was thinking of turboing the 4age. What do you guys think?

[CovertPenguin]

heh dont do it man... it'll be hard.. compression is high and it'll take alot of parts that are hard to find :) just buy another car messing with the one u have now would be kind of hard :) and expensive

[midnightblue]

It is my girls' car so I just want to be quick enough to keep up with us.

[VQuick]

Hey Midnight, if you feel like doing the work, you can get a 4A-GZE engine and remove the blower. This supercharged variant has lower compression pistons that would also work better with turbocharging.

all 4ag series are an easy drop in,
Not all of them. According to MotoP at Club 4AG, he had to do some cutting into the firewall to get a 20v to fit in his AE86. The same is true with any of the AE101/AE111 engines. This is because the fwd 4A-GEs are a bit longer than the rwd versions and need more room if they are to be mounted longitudinally.

And Covert, Mobil didn't specify where the engines had to come from, nor what he was wanting to use the AE86 for. The turbo I6 swaps are used primarily for drag, because they mess up the weight dist. but they do exist. I was trying to give him more options in case he wanted something other than a Toyota engine. There actually has been an SR20DET swap into an AE86, believe it or not. It was a company in Japan, and they probably wanted an SR since it is lighter than the iron block 3S-GTE. Are the F20C and 20B swaps blasphemy too?

Admit it, you're just a Toyota Nazi.:rolleyes: Go away and put a Camry engine in your MR2.:P

[SHIFT_KA]

Originally posted by midnightblue
It is my girls' car so I just want to be quick enough to keep up with us. ooh do it..i want to race her:thumb:

[CovertPenguin]

Originally posted by VQuick
Hey Midnight, if you feel like doing the work, you can get a 4A-GZE engine and remove the blower. This supercharged variant has lower compression pistons that would also work better with turbocharging.


Not all of them. According to MotoP at Club 4AG, he had to do some cutting into the firewall to get a 20v to fit in his AE86. The same is true with any of the AE101/AE111 engines. This is because the fwd 4A-GEs are a bit longer than the rwd versions and need more room if they are to be mounted longitudinally.

And Covert, Mobil didn't specify where the engines had to come from, nor what he was wanting to use the AE86 for. The turbo I6 swaps are used primarily for drag, because they mess up the weight dist. but they do exist. I was trying to give him more options in case he wanted something other than a Toyota engine. There actually has been an SR20DET swap into an AE86, believe it or not. It was a company in Japan, and they probably wanted an SR since it is lighter than the iron block 3S-GTE. Are the F20C and 20B swaps blasphemy too?

Admit it, you're just a Toyota Nazi.:rolleyes: Go away and put a Camry engine in your MR2.:P

toyota nazi? i just know whats shit and whats good...

"heres a question for all you trueno freaks out there..." hmm trueno is a toyota and he didn't ask "nissan freaks"

u want to race your VQ vs my 3sgte with a slipping clutch? and see whats the superior engine? heh ill even use my cruise control.

lost to a Civic EX (so ryan says)? heh the VQ is not a "spectacular engine"... its a joe blow engine... they even put them in maximas... (ooooooo)

[TurboFC3C]

As told by Moto-P from the club4ag forums:
"Here's another advice. Long overdue...

If you are NOT planning to do the swap yourself, aside from heavy mechanical work like use of lifts and hydraulic equipment, here's something you may want to consider.

First of all, I know you are all eager to have that SR20 or 20V in your AE86... I know the new cars are hunting you down with more power.

BUT, here's the thing, if you can't read electric wire diagrams and you have no idea how an oiling or cooling system is laid out on your car, how are you going to diagnose it? I'd like to point out to you that MOST local mechanics and NO dealership will touch a car that's been modified with another non-native motor. Second, most tuning shops that will diagnose it for you will charge by the HOUR at maximum rate and will not guarantee their work (even if they performed the swap originally)

Now, each swap is a very custom job and it's far from a bolt-in job like those of Honda DC's, EG's and EK's where the B16 and B18 are native motors in respective countries. The 20V is natively a front drive motor in a car that has a generation gap of more than 10 years. Almost all electrical and peripheral devices must be fabricated and fitted by custom craftsman (yourself).

If you had the engine mounted in the car already, and you want to do electrical and water lines yourself, that's fine... But if you have no idea with not any intention to learn, you might want to forego the idea. As another person's custom job may and often will, end up in a car that may work fine but will have no reference to diagnosis.
You would not have a clue what got left out, where he put each wire, and how he tapped things he needed for the engine from the car.

Many people call for help among peers here... But however much they all want to help, if the car was done by someone else, there's no way of making description of what needs to be fixed. They don't even know what it looks like and what's missing or what's done wrong in the first place by a phone conversation or e-mail.
This is not a discouraging post to those who want to do one. Just that you must learn and understand the project as a whole so that you can do most of it yourself, and be ready to diagnose problems you have on your own.

Therefore getting the engine is NOT the first thing you should do.
Buying all the electrical diagrams needed, all service manuals for the motor, learning how to read the diagrams and learning how to use tools in diagnosis. Learning what is required of the new install, and what needs to be modified.

Doing all this ahead of the project, you will save time, MONEY, and you'll get a learning experience that you never thought will know. Club4AG is a place for learning yes, but I do also want people who are knowledgeable assisting those in need... Try not to post questions that are on a service manual. Go buy a manual... It will save hours of headache for you and the answers will be more accurate and ready at hand.

Am I making sense? Good Luck to you all who endeavor on projects on your own... It's the best way to be a true Club4AGer.

Wrench AWAY folks!"


Moto-P

[midnightblue]

Thank you for the advice guys.

[VQuick]

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
toyota nazi? i just know whats shit and whats good...
"heres a question for all you trueno freaks out there..." hmm trueno is a toyota and he didn't ask "nissan freaks"
u want to race your VQ vs my 3sgte with a slipping clutch?:violin: and see whats the superior engine? heh ill even use my cruise control.
lost to a Civic EX (so ryan says)? heh the VQ is not a "spectacular engine"... its a joe blow engine... they even put them in maximas... (ooooooo)

I happen to like the AE86. Just because I drive a Nissan doesn't mean I can't like those too.
No, I don't want to race you. It was bad enough hearing your BOV in the Jack in the Box drive-thru that night...ricer.:Jack: I never said my VQ was superior to your 3S-GTE, nor did I say I could beat you in a race. You drive a modded MR2 turbo manual, and I have a stock automatic Maxima. You had more power than me, just from the factory. Duh, who do you think will win??:rolleyes: I would like to see how you'd do against a tuned manual Maxima, though. There's 4th gens like mine running 13s, and not at Sealy, either.":p

I never got to run with Ryan again after I switched to premium fuel. If I had been using 91 or 93 octane like I was supposed to that day, I might have won. He knows I keep a ton of junk in the back of the car, too.

And just to keep my post On-Topic...
You still haven't explained why that Japanese tuning shop was so stupid for putting an SR into a Hachi. Ever hear the term "Hybrid?" Some of the best hybrids out there have engines from different OEMs. Ever hear of the Zupra?

[CovertPenguin]

"No, I don't want to race you. It was bad enough hearing your BOV in the Jack in the Box drive-thru that night...ricer."

bad enough?? After thinking im a ricer you would think you would try to put me in my place.. I already explained before what happened :rolleyes: my throttle body cord sticks and jamming on the gas fixes that (temporarly). If it makes you feel any better or makes me less of a ricer my OEM toyota blow off valve is back on... Why is it "so bad" to hear a blow off valve. 70% of the world probably doesn't even know what the hell a blow off valve is..

"I never said my VQ was superior to your 3S-GTE, nor did I say I could beat you in a race. "

Thats fine i was only saying u take alot of things personally this is all a big (ha ha) joke stuff to me...

"You had more power than me, just from the factory. Duh, who do you think will win?? "

I dont know ryan has less power and less torque by significant margins and he still won?? :rolleyes:

Horsepower 190 @ 5600 RPM
Torque (lb-ft) 205 @ 4000 RPM

in a 3000 pound car + you

Horsepower 150@7200
Torque (lb-ft) 105 (around im sure its not alot)

in a 2600+ ryan

having 40 horses and 100 pounds of torque on him?? that should be enough to beat him? with only 400 pound difference...

"I never got to run with Ryan again after I switched to premium fuel. If I had been using 91 or 93 octane like I was supposed to that day, I might have won. He knows I keep a ton of junk in the back of the car, too."

by the way by you putting "higher octane" in a car that has a somewhat lower compression is kind of retarded... higher octane has "less" energy lower octane has "more" energy.. so by u putting higher octane in a car that only takes lower octane should theoritically make your car slower... Thats why I have to run on premium because my compression is crazy high, if i ran with lower octane (more engery) my car would ping and etc etc.


"You still haven't explained why that Japanese tuning shop was so stupid for putting an SR into a Hachi. Ever hear the term "Hybrid?" Some of the best hybrids out there have engines from different OEMs. Ever hear of the Zupra?"

ya i have.. did i call them stupid? no no no.. i did not.. im just making fun of you... How about you go run 13's at sealy? :gay:

"There's 4th gens like mine running 13s, and not at Sealy, either.":"

if u are going to talk shit i will too...:gay: dont be surprised bitch :roflmao:

[CovertPenguin]

oops my bad.. it was in his stock EX civic.. (125 horses and 100 pounds of torque) u should of really murdered him then.

[CovertPenguin]

http://www.houston-imports.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=60615

[CovertPenguin]

http://www.houston-imports.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=60657

[CovertPenguin]

http://www.houston-imports.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=60785

[VQuick]

Originally posted by CovertPenguin
bad enough?? After thinking im a ricer you would think you would try to put me in my place..
Why do I have to put you in your place? You owned yourself by admitting you were a ricer in the Ramblings section. If you think you are less of a ricer because you have a different BOV, good for you!:thumb:

Horsepower 190 @ 5600 RPM
Torque (lb-ft) 205 @ 4000 RPMhaving 40 horses and 100 pounds of torque on him?? that should be enough to beat him? with only 400 pound difference...
Nissan's rating was somewhat high as well, since stock manual 4th gen Maximas tend to dyno in the mid-160hp range. With an automatic, this figure would be even lower, possibly in the 140-150hp range. On top of that, I don't have full power running on 87 octane...

by the way by you putting "higher octane" in a car that has a somewhat lower compression is kind of retarded... higher octane has "less" energy lower octane has "more" energy.. so by u putting higher octane in a car that only takes lower octane should theoritically make your car slower... Thats why I have to run on premium because my compression is crazy high, if i ran with lower octane (more engery) my car would ping and etc etc.
Assuming that my car does not take higher octane is somewhat retarded as well.
*sigh*Where do I start...
An octane rating is a rating of how detonation-resistant diferent varieties of fuel are. The higher the octane, the higher the detonation resistance. My car is not meant for lower octane, however it can use 87 and 89 because it has a knock sensor. My Maxima has a compression ratio of 10:1. Not exactly low, eh? On the filler door, it says "Premium Fuel Recommended For Maximum Performance." When I changed to 91 octane, there were some gains, especially in engine response. When I started using 93 octane, there were more gains. Now that prices have gone up and I have switched back to 87, some of the response is gone and the car feels more sluggish.

If your car has a lower compression ratio, then yes, using a higher octane fuel can do more harm than good, because your engine has to work harder to burn the fuel. You were correct in that respect.

I looked up a stock 3S-GTE's compression ratio, and it is 8.8:1...somewhat high for a factory import turbo car, but certainly not "crazy high." Many B-series Honda owners step down to 9.X:1 ratios with boost. High compression and high boost do not go together. In most cases, turbo cars run higher octane so that the already compressed and heated air(from boost) does not predetonate the fuel when compressed and heated further by the piston.

I am surprised by nothing other than your lack of research on this topic and your tendency to go into unrelated tangents. This topic was about possible swaps into an AE86, and you have turned it into another "Anti-VQ" campaign.
And on a final, more juvenile, note: Go Away.

To stay on topic...
Midnight, your NA 4A-GE may be able to handle mild boost, provided you make sure the engine is in good condition. The compression ratio is only about 9.4, so that shouldn't be too bad with boost. People have been turbocharging other cars with ratios of 10:1, so you shouldn't have any problems with low to moderate levels of boost.

[CovertPenguin]

wow... u showed me :roflmao: ... by the way.. the stock 3sgte compression (that u listed) is without the turbo charger engaged at 10 psi... compression goes up substantially... when the turbo is "on".

my car really needs a blow off valve... the OEM blow off valve makes no "pssh" like how ALL oem blow off valves do on a standard turbo charged car..

regarding my statment about "im a ricer" i have nothing on my car that enhances "look" that i put on.... everything i have put INTO my car has been for performance... everything... if im a real ricer for adding performance upgrades then im guilty as charged...

i really dont want to write up this long drawn out paragraph on why your bad and im good.... but get a grip its the internet and only a joke.. if u can't take a joke get off the internet :gay:

[CovertPenguin]

by the way "go away" what the hell? how am i going to "go away" lol :roflmao: im sorry u can't take a joke.. u started making the jokes to me first... u apparently can take what u throw at me.. :rolleyes:

I didn't start it... :cool:

[TurboFC3C]

starting to get ugly in here.............

[VQuick]

You did indeed start "it" in this thread. This is the second time you've done this.

Again, you are a ricer because you said that you were. I am simply repeating what you said. If you had said you were a monkey, I would have said you were one too.

When you mention your compression ratio being higher under boost, that is called your effective compression ratio. This is found by dividing the sum of the atmospheric pressure and the boost level by the product of the atmospheric pressure and the mechanical(or static) compression ratio. At 10psi, yours would be around 14.3:1 or a little higher. I was referring to the static compression ratio earlier, since that is what manufacturers actually list.

By "Go Away," I mean send me a PM or stay on topic. You've done little to actually contribute to this thread.

Mobil, if you want a standard 4A-GE with some good power, you can look for a Redtop from the AE92. They start out making 120hp, and some make 140hp. This is a fwd version, however.

If you go for a 4A-GZE, it might be worth noting that the newer fwd versions have a bit more power than the one found in the old AW11 MR2. The AE92 Corolla's version makes 160hp, while the AE101's 4A-GZE makes 165hp.

A problem with going the 20v route will be doing serious work to it. If you decide you want cams, they will be more expensive, because the 20v apparently does not use the same cam spec as the 16v versions. IIRC, it has VVT-i, so that may account for the difference. A 20v turbo would certainly be interesting, considering the extra flow capacity of the 5-valve head. However, the Silvertop has a compression ratio of 10.5:1, and the Blacktop is 11:1, so lower compression pistons would be needed. In general, pistons with 5 valve reliefs are rather rare, and you might have to get them custom made.

[CovertPenguin]

"By "Go Away," I mean send me a PM or stay on topic. You've done little to actually contribute to this thread."

and who are u to tell me what to do.. last i checked this is a public forum.... not a VQ QUICK's forum

"When you mention your compression ratio being higher under boost, that is called your effective compression ratio. This is found by dividing the sum of the atmospheric pressure and the boost level by the product of the atmospheric pressure and the mechanical(or static) compression ratio. At 10psi, yours would be around 14.3:1 or a little higher. I was referring to the static compression ratio earlier, since that is what manufacturers actually list."

too bad static means shit in the real world... and effective means everything..

"Again, you are a ricer because you said that you were. I am simply repeating what you said. If you had said you were a monkey, I would have said you were one too.
"You did indeed start "it" in this thread. "

I guess you dont understand sarcasim when u see it. :rolleyes:

ya.. and u started it in EVERY OTHER THREAD.. i just chose to ignore it :gay: till now... and now your throwing a hissy fit.. if u really dont care dont reply.. if u want to take things personal.. reply away..

:gay:

[Vic]

this turned :gay: real quick.