muslim on muslim violence

[mr toolio]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article1414137.ece

A Pakistani minister and woman’s activist has been shot dead by an Islamic extremist for refusing to wear the veil.

[EvaUnitAammar]

this is political how?

it seriously seems like u try to find any bad story on muslims you can find and post it...do you see any muslims posting all these christian things?

[Texacoma]

this is political how?

it seriously seems like u try to find any bad story on muslims you can find and post it...do you see any muslims posting all these christian things?

How is that not political? One person killed another person because he didn't like her views or ideas.

Webster's 5th Definition of "politics" is "the total complex of relations between people living in society".

Also his grudge would be against extremist Muslims rather than against Muslims in general.

Ma'a salama.

[EvaUnitAammar]

How is that not political? One person killed another person because he didn't like her views or ideas.

Webster's 5th Definition of "politics" is "the total complex of relations between people living in society".

Also his grudge would be against extremist Muslims rather than against Muslims in general.

Ma'a salama.

you know that is not the context that this has arisen from...it would be foolish to argue against it, as does he post Christian versions of this? check his threads...its always the Muslim ones and never none from Christianity and Judaism

his grudge seems to be against Muslims as he has countless times attempted to assault Islam

[juanschwartz]

How is that not political? One person killed another person because he didn't like her views or ideas.

Webster's 5th Definition of "politics" is "the total complex of relations between people living in society".

Also his grudge would be against extremist Muslims rather than against Muslims in general.

Ma'a salama.
It's religious, but at the same time political because the jackasses in charge legislate religious dogma. As I've said before, Islam needs a spiritual revival led by their plentiful youth population if it is to survive and interact with western civilization. Islam is becoming untenable to younger Muslims who are not indoctrinated with extremism which is apparent is a majority... particularly in Iran.

However, just as in the US, nationalism trumps the unsavory things our leaders do. While many of the countries with Islamic religious leaders in control who are responsible for the poverty caused by sanctions, the people are still living that life. You could liken it to the women who won't leave their abusive husbands.

Extremism is putting your dogmas before the personal freedoms of others and this exists in both Muslim and Western civilization, particularly the US.

The US has people in power who oppose approving vaccinations to prevent HPV which is a cause of cervical cancer. They oppose equal rights for gays because they have incorporated a majority religious institution into tax and estate laws and have laws on the books that make sodomy(GAY SEX) illegal.

Now, Islamic groups are psychotic about religion... but how EXTREME do you have to be not to leave a country because it's your holy land, just as the Muslims claim. Both have fought over it far too long now and I'd say the holiness of it has pretty much been stamped out by the constant bloodshed spread by both sides. It is an ancient tribal rivalry and is never going to end unless you lay down the Korans/Torahs/Bibles and use a little common sense instead of trying to apply your conflicting God accounts to the world around you. They are all out of their minds.

Given the resources on this earth and the small number of people on it, we could all live a pretty good global life.

An article in last Sunday's New York Times ("Images of Muhammad, Gone for Good", February 12th, 2006) helpfully observes that the current furor in the Muslim world has arisen, not because the Danish cartoons were especially derogatory, but because most Muslims believe that it is a sacrilege to depict Muhammad at all. Indeed, we tend to forget that protests of this sort are not new, and not, therefore, the result of our invasion of Iraq. How many of us remember that in 1977 a Muslim group took hostages, killed a journalist, and wounded 13 people -- in Washington -- for the high purpose of stopping the U.S. premier of the film "Mohammad, Messenger of God"? Then, as now, the issue wasn't the disparagement of Islam -- although this is also a killing offense -- the issue was the mere depiction of the Prophet. Then, as now, we allowed ourselves to be blackmailed by the petulance of religious maniacs, and the distribution of the film was halted. So let us put this fact on the table once and for all: anyone who thinks that non-Muslims should be obliged to conform to the religious taboos of Islam is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a Muslim moderate. (These same principals also apply to our own government and people's will to legislate biblical dogmas at the cost of the oppression of those minorities. It is the same thing the Muslims are doing. Extremism is not limited to violent acts.)

On the subject of Muslim terrorism, what does a moderate Muslim sound like? He or she will sound something like this:

"It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims... We cannot tolerate in our midst those who abduct journalists, murder civilians, explode buses; we cannot accept them as related to us, whatever the sufferings they claim to justify their criminal deeds. These are the people who have smeared Islam and stained its image. We cannot clear our names unless we own up to the shameful fact that terrorism has become an Islamic enterprise; an almost exclusive monopoly, implemented by Muslim men and women." (Abdel Rahman al-Rashed "Innocent religion is now a message of hate." Telegraph. 05/09/2004)

While intelligent people can disagree about how "innocent" the theology of Islam is, a willingness to admit the obvious is a basic requirement of religious moderation. Any Muslim who will not concede that there is a death-cult forming in the Muslim world, is either part of that cult, or an obscurantist -- not a religious moderate.

How will Muslim moderates view women and women's rights? They will feel what any person who is reasonably free of medieval dogmatism now feels. Equal rights for women is not even a question worthy of discussion among religious moderates, and it is not a subject about which moderate Muslims will have the slightest caveat. Anyone who believes that men should determine how women dress, or whether they receive medical attention, marry, divorce, practice contraception, or do anything else with their minds and bodies is not a religious moderate. He (or she) is a religious demagogue on a collision course with modernity.


"The moment a person recognizes that slaves are human beings like himself, enjoying the same capacity for suffering and happiness, he will understand that it is patently evil to own them and treat them like farm equipment. It is remarkably easy for a person to arrive at this epiphany -- and yet, it had to be spread at the point of a bayonet throught the Confederate South, among the most pious Christians this country has ever known."

[Masoud]

It's religious, but at the same time political because the jackasses in charge legislate religious dogma. As I've said before, Islam needs a spiritual revival led by their plentiful youth population if it is to survive and interact with western civilization. Islam is becoming untenable to younger Muslims who are not indoctrinated with extremism which is apparent is a majority... particularly in Iran.
Yes, we all know how well Muslims are great at taking criticism of Islamic teachings. They always have the door open for criticism to help better Islamic teachings in todays world

[memoryleak]

you know that is not the context that this has arisen from...it would be foolish to argue against it, as does he post Christian versions of this? check his threads...its always the Muslim ones and never none from Christianity and Judaism
I think it's more along the lines of we don't have extremist Christians running around assassinating politicians because they are gay or pro-choice, for example.

There has been one case I can think of if it makes you feel any better. I, a Christian, deplore the abortion center bombings by that Christian extremist who is now locked up in a Federal prison. I wish they wouldn't have offered him a deal and just gone ahead and executed him for the bombing and murders.

Am I out of context? Please correct me if so :)

[juanschwartz]

I think it's more along the lines of we don't have extremist Christians running around assassinating politicians because they are gay or pro-choice, for example.

There has been one case I can think of if it makes you feel any better. I, a Christian, deplore the abortion center bombings by that Christian extremist who is now locked up in a Federal prison. I wish they wouldn't have offered him a deal and just gone ahead and executed him for the bombing and murders.

Am I out of context? Please correct me if so :)
Extremism does not require violence... it is believing that one should observe and not violate your religious doctrine's rules.

While murder, rape and stealing are blatant sins that infringe upon the rights of others, homosexuality is not even comparable... Yet, our president proposed a constitutional amendment that would make it illegal for that couple to be recognized by the US government which has incorporated religious doctrine into law by way of extremist religious leaders.

If there weren't laws there to protect the minorities(keep in mind there weren't until about 50 years ago for the black race), you can be sure that the pious south would still be oppressing them. I'd also say that given the opportunity many people in the religious right would punish the homosexuals further.

"The moment a person recognizes that slaves are human beings like himself, enjoying the same capacity for suffering and happiness, he will understand that it is patently evil to own them and treat them like farm equipment. It is remarkably easy for a person to arrive at this epiphany -- and yet, it had to be spread at the point of a bayonet through the Confederate South, among the most pious Christians this country has ever known."

[mr toolio]

damn dns propogation, LOL..

[jhbhatia]

fanatics are everywhere (not just in Pakistan).....
Despite the fanatics' - kudos to countries like Pakistan and India..who have elected women leaders (Ben. Butto, Indira Gandhi, Soniya Gandhi) as primeministers or presidents..where as this country can't even place a woman candidate!

[EvaUnitAammar]

fanatics are everywhere (not just in Pakistan).....
Despite the fanatics' - kudos to countries like Pakistan and India..who have elected women leaders (Ben. Butto, Indira Gandhi, Soniya Gandhi) as primeministers or presidents..where as this country can't even place a woman candidate!

hah that is interesting

[JerseyKing]

[QUOTE=juanschwartz]It's religious, but at the same time political because the jackasses in charge legislate religious dogma. As I've said before, Islam needs a spiritual revival led by their plentiful youth population if it is to survive and interact with western civilization. Islam is becoming untenable to younger Muslims who are not indoctrinated with extremism which is apparent is a majority... particularly in Iran.



there is young muslim association called YM or crescent youth and theirs many more ym is national young muslim organization
why does there need to be a revival islam is the fastest growin religon in the world

[juanschwartz]

there is young muslim association called YM or crescent youth and theirs many more ym is national young muslim organization
why does there need to be a revival islam is the fastest growin religon in the world
Are you serious?

While it is the fastest growing religion in the world, it is also the most flagrantly oppressive and intolerant. Christianity is still oppressive in the US, but it must operate within the limits of US law.

Many Islamic countries defend blatant human rights violations under the veil of Islam. They also treat women, homosexuals and non-muslims like second class citizens under the veil of Islam.

Just recently in Iran, Nazanin Fatehi's death sentence was overturned after international appeals. Her crime... stabbing a would-be rapist attacking her and her 15 year old niece.

Look at Iran's death penalty eligibility. 15 for males... 9 for females. Again, because in the eyes of Islam males are superior to females.

Let's look at it from a foreigner's perspective. If an American woman goes into another country, she is expected to follow their customs in terms of clothing or she will be scrutinized by the locals. That is extremism. There is no reason anyone not of Muslim faith should have to practice Muslim traditions or respect Muslim dogma(like the depiction of Mohammed in the Dutch cartoons). The US catches flack for asking a Muslim woman to remove her veil. Why? In America, we don't allow that... but we make the exception to respect the beliefs of others. Why can't the same be afforded to Americans abroad?

It's not a mystery as to why the people sitting on top of the most valuable energy source on the planet are still living somewhat third world.

1. The leaders are mostly figureheads reporting to the religious wack-jobs that have the final decision making powers.
2. The pious leaders are usually corrupt and waste away the money that could better the country on supporting like-minded religious nut-jobs who preach things such as "Tom and Jerry" were Jewish propaganda. (http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1049)
3. The pious leaders blame Western civilization and the Jews for the fact that Islam in it's current state cannot survive the actual transition from third-world/18th century to modern times.

I don't think a majority of Muslims support points 1,2 and 3 and are still at the bidding of their leaders. Hence, a revival and revolution within Islam is needed. The Christians did it with The New Testament.

[juanschwartz]

Regarding the Tom and Jerry thing, Hasan Bolkhari is preaching about how the jew Walt Disney made it... Professor Hasan Bolkhari, Iranian is the “mass media expert” and cultural advisor to the Iranian Education Ministry.

As you should know, Disney did not make Tom and Jerry... it was an Italian working with Hannah Barbara. This guy can't even get the creator of one of the world's most popular cartoons correct.

Regarding the removing of the veil by the Muslim woman in the US, that was in a court appearance.

[juanschwartz]

Again, yes Islam needs a facelift...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2907760&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

Police are seeking 10 men, including several tribal elders, accused of pressuring a Pakistani woman to hand over her teenage daughter as payment for a 16-year-old poker debt, officials said Tuesday.

In the latest case highlighting how conservative customs threaten women's rights in Pakistan, Nooran Umrani alleges that, despite paying off her late husband's debt of $165, she was threatened with harm if she failed to hand over her daughter, Rasheeda.

He said a group of elders from the tribe came to Hyderabad in January to investigate the case and had ruled that, under tribal custom, the girl should be married to Haider's 23-year-old son Abdul Ghani.

In December, Musharraf signed into law a bill that makes it easier to prosecute rape cases in the courts, and the country's ruling party recently introduced a bill to outlaw forced marriages, including under tribal custom in which women are married off in order to settle disputes.

[Ohdubbz]

Again, yes Islam needs a facelift...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2907760&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

Police are seeking 10 men, including several tribal elders, accused of pressuring a Pakistani woman to hand over her teenage daughter as payment for a 16-year-old poker debt, officials said Tuesday.

In the latest case highlighting how conservative customs threaten women's rights in Pakistan, Nooran Umrani alleges that, despite paying off her late husband's debt of $165, she was threatened with harm if she failed to hand over her daughter, Rasheeda.

He said a group of elders from the tribe came to Hyderabad in January to investigate the case and had ruled that, under tribal custom, the girl should be married to Haider's 23-year-old son Abdul Ghani.

In December, Musharraf signed into law a bill that makes it easier to prosecute rape cases in the courts, and the country's ruling party recently introduced a bill to outlaw forced marriages, including under tribal custom in which women are married off in order to settle disputes.

this has nothing do with islam, these are examples of tribal practices that exist independently of islamic practice.

[juanschwartz]

this has nothing do with islam, these are examples of tribal practices that exist independently of islamic practice.
I'm sorry... I thought Sunni's and Shi'ites were both rivals who consulted elders on all matters... see Iran.

[juanschwartz]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,256980,00.html

More Islamic law goodness.

[EvaUnitAammar]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,256980,00.html

More Islamic law goodness.

Thats Saudi Arabia.....rem who is their greatest ally and supporter in the Middle East

cuz trust me...no one likes them