a/f tuning

[b18Dc2]

who can tune the a/f on my car for a decent price, i have no controllers i just need it done becuase im runnin a lil rich?

[Silverbeast]

There needs to be some sort of fuel adjustment to make the a/f change. I would reccomnd something that you can adjust timing with also.

Best thing i can say is S200 with a P28 ECU.

[b18Dc2]

will just a basic afc work or do i need a v-afc seeing its a gsr?

[Silverbeast]

v-afc would work. for what you are going to spend on one, consider a Hondata unit.

[DRKBLUHATCHver2]

v-afc would work. for what you are going to spend on one, consider a Hondata unit.

Ebay
Hondata used = expensive
SAFC used = way cheaper

His cars not in real need of something like Hondata + tuning costs. VAFC or SAFC is relativly cheap now, im seein them go for cheap. Besides, i would rather someone use Uberdata than pay for Hondata.

Uberdata:
http://uberdata.pgmfi.org/forum/attachments/Uberdata_1.70.zip

Base maps and other roms:
http://uberdata.pgmfi.org/forum/index.php?board=3

ROM burner:
http://www.xenocron.com/products.php?page=burner

MAX232 converter:
http://www.xenocron.com/products.php?page=rs232

27c256 chips:
http://www.digikey.com

Bein able to tune your own stuff when ever you want..

But im just a crazy D.I.Y., what do i know...

If you wanna get it done though:
Hondata :yeahno:
Neptune :thumb:

[b18Dc2]

thx for all the info, its tru my car doesnt need anything expensive just somethin to adjust it for now, my call is basically all stock cept for minor bolt ons so a safc or vafc would work just fine, but which is better?

[Sneakin Deacon]

so, could you enlighten us as to WHY you need your a/f "adjusted", and HOW you know your rich? have you had a wideband reading taken?

[b18Dc2]

so, could you enlighten us as to WHY you need your a/f "adjusted", and HOW you know your rich? have you had a wideband reading taken?

i know im rich becuase of the tailpipe and more so i want to get tuned because i want it done.. is that such a problem? j/w?

[dak4.7]

so, could you enlighten us as to WHY you need your a/f "adjusted", and HOW you know your rich? have you had a wideband reading taken?

Can tell by looking at the plugs that you're running rich :-/

[Silverbeast]

Ebay
Hondata used = expensive
SAFC used = way cheaper

His cars not in real need of something like Hondata + tuning costs. VAFC or SAFC is relativly cheap now, im seein them go for cheap. Besides, i would rather someone use Uberdata than pay for Hondata.

Bein able to tune your own stuff when ever you want..

But im just a crazy D.I.Y., what do i know...

If you wanna get it done though:
Hondata :yeahno:
Neptune :thumb:

Being able to tune it and actually tuning it properly are 2 completley different things.

How do you remove/add/adjust timing at vtec cross over with an afc or v-afc again?

I dont see how in his case... 250 for a S200 with datalogging and 3 step and about 30 mins worth of tuning....or at worst a good basemap to clear up the problem is cheaper and more reliable than uberdata.

As far as Neptune and Hondata go, there isnt a need for debate on that. This isnt the place or the thread.

[b18Dc2]

Being able to tune it and actually tuning it properly are 2 completley different things.

How do you remove/add/adjust timing at vtec cross over with an afc or v-afc again?

I dont see how in his case... 250 for a S200 with datalogging and 3 step and about 30 mins worth of tuning....or at worst a good basemap to clear up the problem is cheaper and more reliable than uberdata.

As far as Neptune and Hondata go, there isnt a need for debate on that. This isnt the place or the thread.

so what exactly are u trying to say? :ugh2:

[b18Dc2]

another question, wouldnt hondata s100 be good enough for what i need it for? seeing i can get that fairly cheap?

[Sneakin Deacon]

Can tell by looking at the plugs that you're running rich :-/


well he obviously isnt doing that, as he said he can tell due to his tailpipe somehow...and if you've got enough noticeable carbon buildup on the plugs, yea your running rich, but there is probably a reason for it.



its a stock motor though, with nothing really done. what is there to do? add a degree or 2 of timing across the rpm's?

im not trying to come off as an ass even though i am, but seriously, i dont see why people spend money on unneeded things at the wrong time.

[Silverbeast]

another question, wouldnt hondata s100 be good enough for what i need it for? seeing i can get that fairly cheap?

The S200 is a better value now as it comes with free datalogging and free 3 step.

As far as what it can do for a "stock" car....look at this and tell me you dont see why having something fully tunable is better.
http://www.hondata.com/images/civicsi.gif
(B16A) with a P28 OBD I ECU conversion tuned to gain 5 peak HP at 7500 RPM, 10-12% torque below 3000 rpm and an average of 3.5 hp over the whole rev range.
The engine was stock apart from a heatshield gasket and the tuning was performed on a dyno. The result of this surprised us. Normally the stock tuning is fairly close to the full potential of the engine, and there are no significant gains made by tuning fuel and ignition tables. Using a wide band lambda meter on the dyno we increased output by leaning the mixture at full throttle and richening the mixture at part load.
The biggest gain came from advancing the ignition timing below 5000 rpm across all load settings, and retarding the ignition timing at 7000 rpm for full load. Our feeling is that Honda has tuned the engine to run on a lower octane rating fuel. The same gains could not be made by increasing the base timing (by spinning the distributor) because the engine made more power over 7000 rpm by retarding the timing. The difference was noticable when driving the car, especially at part throttle and low rpm.
On the freeway we found the car would comfortably climb a hill in 5th gear where previously a change down to 4th was necessary. Tests were performed as accurately as possible on a dyno with the engine water temperature and intake air temperature at the same point at the start of each run.


Look at the ability to take out the nasty factory dip in vtec and to smooth things out. not to mention the increase. This engine was stock, not even header, exhaust, or intake. Which im sure you know as you add these things the mixture changes. More air in and more air out means completley different a/f ratios, I'm sure the stock ecu calculates this, or does the v-afc?

[DRKBLUHATCHver2]

I read all the info on Hondata.com too.

www.pgmfi.org
read, learn, do it yourself.

Thats just me though.

[Silverbeast]

I read all the info on Hondata.com too.

www.pgmfi.org
read, learn, do it yourself.

Thats just me though.

read, learn by blowing it yourself. I have seen uberdata, ghettodyne, crome, turboedit, etc and i can honestly say that of any of those programs Crome seems to be pretty decent.

I guess reading that board makes everyone a tuner. :eyesjack:

[Sneakin Deacon]

As far as what it can do for a "stock" car....look at this and tell me you dont see why having something fully tunable is better.

i dont see why having something stock but fully tunable is better. he is going to spend
how much to get this 5 peak hp gain at 7000rpm? and then he will be out 300 + whatever he gets charged for someone to tune.

[Silverbeast]

i dont see why having something stock but fully tunable is better. he is going to spend
how much to get this 5 peak hp gain at 7000rpm? and then he will be out 300 + whatever he gets charged for someone to tune.

Ok, let's say total cost for him to get all that done is 350. Including the half hour of tuning with a wideband and the S200 unit.

He is going to spend about 300 on a VafcII and then pay someone to "tune" it, which im sure is going to be no less than 50-60 bucks an hr. With or without a wideband?..who knows i dont touch a car w/o a calibrated wideband.

You tell me which way is better? Same bottom line cost, but the ability to upgrade and have it tuned properly, not by playing with a control knob and guessing a/f ratios.

[Sneakin Deacon]

i say for 350 dollars, id go put a bottle in the car. he has nothing right now that would justify him getting tuning.

[alf]

screw that, im going to Carboy for them to dynotune my SAFC

[VashThaStampede]

in all my experience Silverbeast is right, and sneakin dick, or whatever the fuck his name is, just rambles incoherrant crap.


/thread

[VashThaStampede]

oh and Hondata all the way.. for any honda.. fuck apex-i

[Silverbeast]

i say for 350 dollars, id go put a bottle in the car. he has nothing right now that would justify him getting tuning.

So you think. When did you become an import expert?

[Sneakin Deacon]

never an expert at anything. dont plan to be one either. just seems like common sense in the search for faster times, why would i spend 350 now, to gain 5 peak hp, that could very well have been attributed to atmospheric changes, or any number of other variables. and then go do my next mod, and spend another cost of a tuning session getting retuned. sorry for being "cheap" and wanting to have modifications that will compliment one another.

if he had headwork done, or cams, or anything of that nature, that would drastically change the features of the motor from a stock perspective, i would suggest tuning. but all he has said for modifications is intake and exhaust i believe.

[Silverbeast]

never an expert at anything. dont plan to be one either. just seems like common sense in the search for faster times, why would i spend 350 now, to gain 5 peak hp, that could very well have been attributed to atmospheric changes, or any number of other variables. and then go do my next mod, and spend another cost of a tuning session getting retuned. sorry for being "cheap" and wanting to have modifications that will compliment one another.

if he had headwork done, or cams, or anything of that nature, that would drastically change the features of the motor from a stock perspective, i would suggest tuning. but all he has said for modifications is intake and exhaust i believe.

You are the same moron who claims to have a 12 second v6 firebird with an electric supercharger and got called out on it.

You shouldnt be giving advice to anyone about anything.

[b18Dc2]

im not really tuning right now for the performance, in the near future i plan on building the head or somethin of that nature so getting it tuned now would be for running right purposes not for any major performance gains if thats what u think im doing it for

[Silverbeast]

im not really tuning right now for the performance, in the near future i plan on building the head or somethin of that nature so getting it tuned now would be for running right purposes not for any major performance gains if thats what u think im doing it for

Then get something that your a/f can be adjusted by a wideband and something that you can change easily when you start to get more upgrades.

[Sneakin Deacon]

You are the same moron who claims to have a 12 second v6 firebird with an electric supercharger and got called out on it.

You shouldnt be giving advice to anyone about anything.


im not really going to clutter this guys thread with useless stuff in response to your thoughts on my car. i can understand why you havent read all of the thread either, its been quite "active"

truth be told, it has ran 12.0's, and thats all that needs to be said about that.



in response to vtecgsr, if the car is running richer than you think it should, its not the stock tuning that is the problem, there is something else at fault. the stock tuning adjusts itself by readings it gets from its sensors. you running rich, or noticing more gas usage could be attributed to a bad o2 sensor. by modifying the stock tuning to bandaid something that is still not right on the car wont do anything beneficial for you in the long run. from a person who does what he can with the minimal funds he has, i try to look at the simplest/cheapest stuff 1st. if that makes me a moron, then so be it.

[Stevenc]

im not really tuning right now for the performance, in the near future i plan on building the head or somethin of that nature so getting it tuned now would be for running right purposes not for any major performance gains if thats what u think im doing it for

Silverbeast is always right. If you plan on doing some upgrading later, why dick with a AFC now... just get a hondata unit that you can use now and later.......

[b18Dc2]

Silverbeast is always right. If you plan on doing some upgrading later, why dick with a AFC now... just get a hondata unit that you can use now and later.......

tru i thought about that too... but also my friend brought to my attention since its stock i can jsut reset the fuel map and ecu to correct anything wrong with it now.. my o2 sensor probably is bad but there also probably expensive, i probably will get somethin i can get tuned with wideband but that will be when i actually get something worth tuning so says u guys

[DEADLYACURACCY]

Silverbeast is always right. If you plan on doing some upgrading later, why dick with a AFC now... just get a hondata unit that you can use now and later.......


WERD :thumb:

Listening to a respected tuner > Your Friends

[b18Dc2]

my friends brother has a saturn sc2 thats got i/h/e and he just got a safcII and he had it tuned and got 10hp and 10tq, i thought that was pretty good, but for me ima leave the tuning out till i get something worth tuning

[DA_LsVtAk]

my friends brother has a saturn sc2 thats got i/h/e and he just got a safcII and he had it tuned and got 10hp and 10tq, i thought that was pretty good, but for me ima leave the tuning out till i get something worth tuning


im leaning torwards a NO on the piggy back fuel computers dude chip your ECU or buy hondata, if you want to save some cash chip it. and yes i recomend you disconect your baterry since u said you were running like shit when your fuel filter was clogged up your ECU prob has the same fuel settings as to when it was running like shit. so disconect your negative on your batery for 30 seconds and reconect then drive it around for bout 5 min and tell us the results.... overall on a honda get uberdata or crome or hondata and throw the VAFC or SAFC out the window, IMO converted GSR to OBD1 with chipped ECU > piggy back on OBD2, since you are running a OBD2 GSR id recomend that you convert to OBD1 and get a P28, it will be the best money you spent instead of a lil piggy back fuel computer... good luck dude if you have any questions you have my AIM sn hit it up ill help ya out

[b18Dc2]

im leaning torwards a NO on the piggy back fuel computers dude chip your ECU or buy hondata, if you want to save some cash chip it. and yes i recomend you disconect your baterry since u said you were running like shit when your fuel filter was clogged up your ECU prob has the same fuel settings as to when it was running like shit. so disconect your negative on your batery for 30 seconds and reconect then drive it around for bout 5 min and tell us the results.... overall on a honda get uberdata or crome or hondata and throw the VAFC or SAFC out the window, IMO converted GSR to OBD1 with chipped ECU > piggy back on OBD2, since you are running a OBD2 GSR id recomend that you convert to OBD1 and get a P28, it will be the best money you spent instead of a lil piggy back fuel computer... good luck dude if you have any questions you have my AIM sn hit it up ill help ya out

ya ive been doing some thinking and research and the vafc is kinda lame sounding as far as what i want it for, like u said the piggy back fuel computer, i would convert to obd1 any day but i dont have alot of knowledge on how all that works, guess ill be hittin up the threads for that one... u let me know what it consist of but ima try and learn it, also i need to get some hookups from somebody to help me out, ive heard good things bout some ppl and i need some help :thumb: anybody can help me out on this one pls DO!! :rock:

[v4lu3s]

i sya do a tuneup and make sure the car works well stock. throwing aftermarket parts at a problem wont help it. like has been said above. if you ARE runnign rich then fix the stock parts that are worng, dont ignore the problem and throw tuning at it.

[b18Dc2]

i sya do a tuneup and make sure the car works well stock. throwing aftermarket parts at a problem wont help it. like has been said above. if you ARE runnign rich then fix the stock parts that are worng, dont ignore the problem and throw tuning at it.

tru but i dont know what i need to replace or fix to have it fixed? when ppl say "tune up" what actually are they doing? and how much does it cost?

[b18Dc2]

screw all this i coverted to obd1 and getting a chipped p28

[DA_LsVtAk]

tru but i dont know what i need to replace or fix to have it fixed? when ppl say "tune up" what actually are they doing? and how much does it cost?

change oil,coolant,sparkplugs,wires, tranny fluid..... basicly anything that is the basics for the car to run and replacing it would be a basic tune up


i sya do a tuneup and make sure the car works well stock. throwing aftermarket parts at a problem wont help it. like has been said above. if you ARE runnign rich then fix the stock parts that are worng, dont ignore the problem and throw tuning at it.


hes done a tune up and it does run good stock, he isnt throwing aftermarket parts on it in fact he is "downgrading" from his old ECU to one that is more chipping friendly per se, its not like he put MSD and nitrous so he wouldnt run rich anymore after he reset his ECU like i said everything ran better so now this ecu solution should fix it, it wasnt like he was running in safe mode it was prob just a clogged fuel filter which is fixed, ive driven his car its not in the worst shape

and im spent

[v4lu3s]

change oil,coolant,sparkplugs,wires, tranny fluid..... basicly anything that is the basics for the car to run and replacing it would be a basic tune up





hes done a tune up and it does run good stock, he isnt throwing aftermarket parts on it in fact he is "downgrading" from his old ECU to one that is more chipping friendly per se, its not like he put MSD and nitrous so he wouldnt run rich anymore after he reset his ECU like i said everything ran better so now this ecu solution should fix it, it wasnt like he was running in safe mode it was prob just a clogged fuel filter which is fixed, ive driven his car its not in the worst shape

and im spent

if after all that he is still running rich he still has a problem and chipping an ecu wont fix a problem on a stock system....

[DA_LsVtAk]

if after all that he is still running rich he still has a problem and chipping an ecu wont fix a problem on a stock system....


dude not to burst anybodies bubble or anything but this car is STOCK there isnt anything wrong with it now if it had CAMS,head,injectors or something like that i would understand but its BONE stock, the most that was wrong with it was it had a bad fuel filter,which he replaced and after, i told him to reset his ecu it ran fine in fact he put a chipped ECU and ran even better, its running perfect ....enough said im sure he was just paranoid about something when it was running like shit and now i doubt it was running rich, im done with this thread its pointless he said hes moving on and he didnt even need a SAFC or anything of the sort just converting to OBD1 would be alot easier to mod later on thats just what i was stating

[DRKBLUHATCHver2]

i sya do a tuneup and make sure the car works well stock.

Most rich running conditions are not always an o2 problem, sensors go bad, info gets messed up and then your wasting gas.

But VtecGsrTeg is set, i got him a jumper and soon a ecu.

And silver beast, i know that not everyone is a tuner, but dont think that most people on pgmfi.org are dumbasses, you tune the systems that these guys create and reverse engineer. Your ass learned the same way i did, you read. The step you are ahead of me is that you probaley too a class correct. EFI101 or somethng to that sort? Im not tryin to be a dick or anything, im just saying there are different options, and learning is one of them.

[b18Dc2]

[QUOTE=DRKBLUHATCHver2]

But VtecGsrTeg is set, i got him a jumper and soon a ecu.

QUOTE]

preciate it bro, i should have u some money within a week and half then ima try and find a chip god knows where or which one, then u can chip dat biatch and GG :rock:

[epic1si]

just chipping the ecu isn't going to do anything either especially if he is bonestock. you'd be better off getting on a dyno running an emulator and burning a chip that is specific to your application. most generic chips ie mugen, skunk2, etc. are more than likely going to make you run richer since they are designed to take advantage of at least some bolt ons and add more fuel to get some extra power.

[b18Dc2]

just chipping the ecu isn't going to do anything either especially if he is bonestock. you'd be better off getting on a dyno running an emulator and burning a chip that is specific to your application. most generic chips ie mugen, skunk2, etc. are more than likely going to make you run richer since they are designed to take advantage of at least some bolt ons and add more fuel to get some extra power.

i have i/e

[Silverbeast]

Most rich running conditions are not always an o2 problem, sensors go bad, info gets messed up and then your wasting gas.

But VtecGsrTeg is set, i got him a jumper and soon a ecu.

And silver beast, i know that not everyone is a tuner, but dont think that most people on pgmfi.org are dumbasses, you tune the systems that these guys create and reverse engineer. Your ass learned the same way i did, you read. The step you are ahead of me is that you probaley too a class correct. EFI101 or somethng to that sort? Im not tryin to be a dick or anything, im just saying there are different options, and learning is one of them.

This may come to a shock as you, but you are wrong. I have even endorsed programs from pgmfi.org, I personally think that Crome is a good product, one, if not the best one, on that board. I didnt learn the same way you did by reading. I read yes, it's natrual for literate people to do. I think that maybe you fall into that catagory where you read that board and and that makes you a "tuner". I havent taken Ben's class, but right now there is no reason. I actually gave a lecture today at UTI on EFI tuning and dyno procedures. Does that make me fall into the catagory where I read the internet and became a tuner?....NO.

You tune a K series car and then explain to me the results and the interal workings of that engine.

I guess my computer engineering degree has nothing to do with it, nor my understanding of motors, cars, and EFI. Or maybe that my family raced domestics since i was a kid and learned a long time ago from the old school Accel DFI to start the process.

But, I guess since you read pgmfi.org, that makes you MUCH more of an upmost authority on tuning. :eyesjack:

[VashThaStampede]

Hi,I'm drkbluhatch.
I spend as much time as i can tryin to get cred,that i bash every reputable tuner or builder. I am an attention whore..wah wah wah.

Anyhow,thats what it should have said.

[fug_mo]

This is where silverbeast learned to tune

http://fearlessracing.net/silverbeast.jpg

j/k :thumb:

i have spoken to Silverbeast many times, i dont think the internet had much to do with him tuning

[rene]

This may come to a shock as you, but you are wrong. I have even endorsed programs from pgmfi.org, I personally think that Crome is a good product, one, if not the best one, on that board. I didnt learn the same way you did by reading. I read yes, it's natrual for literate people to do. I think that maybe you fall into that catagory where you read that board and and that makes you a "tuner". I havent taken Ben's class, but right now there is no reason. I actually gave a lecture today at UTI on EFI tuning and dyno procedures. Does that make me fall into the catagory where I read the internet and became a tuner?....NO.

You tune a K series car and then explain to me the results and the interal workings of that engine.

I guess my computer engineering degree has nothing to do with it, nor my understanding of motors, cars, and EFI. Or maybe that my family raced domestics since i was a kid and learned a long time ago from the old school Accel DFI to start the process.

But, I guess since you read pgmfi.org, that makes you MUCH more of an upmost authority on tuning. :eyesjack:



http://twoday.net/static/andibo/images/owned%20by%20spritze.jpg

:thumb: to the silverbeast, we've all seen his work

[cypher]

i didnt know that book was out?!
YOU DA MAN JAMES!

[fug_mo]

Yeah... didnt you hear? Thats how all the cool kids learn to tune.

[Silverbeast]

i didnt know that book was out?!
YOU DA MAN JAMES!

Make this like the 2nd thing we agree on.... :eek3:

[cypher]

Yeah... didnt you hear? Thats how all the cool kids learn to tune.

ill grab a copy from ya when i drop by next time cuz i know you have it! :thumb:

[SecretAgent]

i learned all my tuning skills by playing with my lawnmower.


now if only i could find my mixture screw on my integra, i wouldn't need that neptune business anymore!!









jk, in case u couldn' tell.

[cypher]

Make this like the 2nd thing we agree on.... :eek3:

shall we goto bed now before we agree on somthing else and make this night even more crazy?!

[Silverbeast]

shall we goto bed now before we agree on somthing else and make this night even more crazy?!

As long as we agree not to go to bed together. :)

Neptune is all on the internet, MUST be where people like Jason, Tony and everyone else learned about it and how to tune it.

[rene]

i learned all my tuning skills by playing with my lawnmower.


now if only i could find my mixture screw on my integra, i wouldn't need that neptune business anymore!!






mixture screw should be on the throttle body next to the iac...gosh :rolleyes:






jk, in case you couldnt tell

[cypher]

mixture screw should be on the throttle body next to the iac...gosh :rolleyes:






jk, in case you couldnt tell


no no no thats the idle sir. :kekegay:

[rene]

no no no thats the idle sir. :kekegay:


silly me :wompwomp: :kekegay:

[DEADLYACURACCY]

This may come to a shock as you, but you are wrong. I have even endorsed programs from pgmfi.org, I personally think that Crome is a good product, one, if not the best one, on that board. I didnt learn the same way you did by reading. I read yes, it's natrual for literate people to do. I think that maybe you fall into that catagory where you read that board and and that makes you a "tuner". I havent taken Ben's class, but right now there is no reason. I actually gave a lecture today at UTI on EFI tuning and dyno procedures. Does that make me fall into the catagory where I read the internet and became a tuner?....NO.

You tune a K series car and then explain to me the results and the interal workings of that engine.

I guess my computer engineering degree has nothing to do with it, nor my understanding of motors, cars, and EFI. Or maybe that my family raced domestics since i was a kid and learned a long time ago from the old school Accel DFI to start the process.

But, I guess since you read pgmfi.org, that makes you MUCH more of an upmost authority on tuning. :eyesjack:


Since you are the authority on understanding cars, what's the cause of a starter fuse that keeps popping??? :eek3dance :eek3dance :eek3dance





J/k I heard a story about that. LOL!!!!! :kekegay:

[alf]

silverbeast (if he chooses to) will hopefully be tuning my AFC. Carboy knows shit for tuning.

instead of subtracting fuel, that idiot added fuel. ARGH. had to shut off the settings, running too rich.

alf

[Silverbeast]

alf, we'll get it taken care of...with a wideband.

[D-Town Lude]

listen to silver beast you might as well pay alil more for s2oo you'll see good results like he said 3step data loggin and launch control all free now. Even if it dosen't appeal to ya take advantage of free things vafc's are turing out to be shit compared to hondata and other similar programs but i retract that statement are shit compared to hondata, it will definetly get your car running rite of course a good tuner wouldn't hurt.

Don't underestimate Hondata one of the few actual stand up programs, proven i think it will give ya alil more than 5hp for 300 bux. not to be a bitch may wanna see a good tuners dyno graphs with hondata on light to mildly modded cars on hondata might change some people's attitude.

"Rember good quality does cost a lil" of s100 will work great ur rite cheaper.

[crx-si]

I can DYNO tune your car on Crome, and crome is free so you don't have to buy anything, except have your car convert to obd1 ready. PM me for more info