Bashing on the cobalt ? Whats up ?

[tmajik86]

I've seen a few of threads dealing with the cobalt go kinda sour. Apparently everybody thinks the cobalt is the continuation of the crappy cavalier. Its not, yea it maybe a economy car in the 15k range, but arent civics, integras sentras, and all those other cars. I dont see what makes them so crappy. As far as i can see this car is more potent than hondas or acuras or what not. Not to mention this car makes more torque throughout the powerband than almost any other 4 banger on the market, natrually aspirated anyway. And torque is what gets you moving, not vtec to everybody's dismay. I think its funny that everybody thinks vtec is supposed to be some big power adder when it was meant for fuel economy. discuss...

[YesSiR]

i think the colbalt is a very nice setup n aim at the market and i own a honda. On teh comment of Vtec though i like the fuel economy advantage while not havin to worry about if you can get up to speed to enter the freeway if need be. so it was really meant for performance while not giving up good gas milliage least that's how i see it. i think the car just needs to get its' feet wet and more people need to see first hand what it can really do in person and opinions (from those who are open minded enough to matter) will slowly but surely change just like with the SRT-4
(ducks behind flame-resistant wall for last comment)

that is all.......

[tmajik86]

I too own a honda which i am so dissapointed with. Your comment on getting up to speed, with my car it pratically a full-throttle deal to get on the freeway and merge. But with ecotec has enough torque to get you there without having to get into the throttle that much. IMO, i think the hondas need the variable timing because of the limited power it makes, it needs that extra umpphh. Now the ecotec rely's on no such variable timing equipment and seems to make more than ample power espically for a I4. Besidse the resale value on a honda over the cobalt. i cant really see a good reason to keep my honda over the cobalt??

[slammed00si]

i have test drivin a cobalt and yes you are right it does make more torque then most fwd cars. it is also pretty heavy feeling. to me it is not a bad car but suffers from being a gm car. it is the next cavalier no matter what you call it. that is what it replaced so no its not technicaly. to me it is just another blah car a point a-b car unless you get the ss.(also slower then i thought it would be) not everyone feels that vtec is the ultimate race tool. half the people on this forum couldnt tell you how it operates other then at so and so speed mad vtak shoots there car forward. so i wouldnt take most people seriously here.
cn its an ok car but suffers from being made by gm(not bashing just telling the truth, and not all gm cars are bad) :thumb:

[BoostedTypeS]

the ss is aight

[BoostedTypeS]

i like the tail lights

[YesSiR]

yea i took a mini drive at HID and it was a nice ride n all but it did feel a bit on the heavy side but i agree on the freeway thing to an extent, if it's a SOHC then i can't argue with you (well it never really bothered me in my sohc but i can see what you're saying) but DOHC vtec engines......i don't think that's the case but that's all opinionated no real details behind it. but bottom line is the colbalt is a respectable car for what it offers and like i stated earlier i guess it just needs to stretch it's legs and back what it's claimed to do n it'll be ok......and needs to be out long enough for the ugly grimlins (if they're are any) to show their heads to see if it'll really be worth all that it's aspiring to be.

[flip gt2k2]

aint nothing wrong with the cobalt...specially the SS....its good to see more sport compact cars out there.

[Mr. Stone]

Someone is gonna get a Cobalt and kick some major ass one day. One day... It doesn't look half bad either.

[Cav_man2004]

I've seen a few of threads dealing with the cobalt go kinda sour. Apparently everybody thinks the cobalt is the continuation of the crappy cavalier. Its not, yea it maybe a economy car in the 15k range, but arent civics, integras sentras, and all those other cars. I dont see what makes them so crappy. As far as i can see this car is more potent than hondas or acuras or what not. Not to mention this car makes more torque throughout the powerband than almost any other 4 banger on the market, natrually aspirated anyway. And torque is what gets you moving, not vtec to everybody's dismay. I think its funny that everybody thinks vtec is supposed to be some big power adder when it was meant for fuel economy. discuss...

cavalier is not crappy, at least not after 2003 and as long as you took care of it

[SecretAgent]

the reason the cobalt is giving people a bad taste is because, even though it's "all new" it's still built using a very similar platform, the same motor, and assembled and designed using the same techniques. the newest part of the car is it's name. Yeah, it has great power, but what good does that do, when the rest of the car is falling apart on you? Same problem the 02+ Cav's and sunfires have. i've driven the new SS, and i wasn't impressed at all. yeah, it's got torque, but it's also heavy and the steering feels very disconnected from the road. everything performance wise feels very vaque compared to other sport compacts.

also, VTEC was NOT designed for economy. It was designed for the broadest torque curve, while not sacrificing top end horsepower. it allowed Honda to develop very small displacement motors, and still make them have decent power and compete with their larger displacement competitors. this philosophy comes from registration laws in japan where they base taxes on engine displacement, instead of just emissions like in the states. while yes, there are economy based VTEC's, better known as VTEC-e, they are a different system from the B-series VTEC's, and the new generation K-series iVTEC's. the low cam may be for economy, but the high cams would be considered all out race cams if put into another car. try finding another motor with the same displacement that comes close to it's performance numbers while still being all motor. Dodge, GM, Nissan, etc has had to use 2.2L-2.4L's just to come close to the performance of the Honda 1.8-2.0L's.

[ormand]

^ :bowdown:

You just saved my fingers http://www.smileys.ws/sm/action/00000057.gif

[Evil Patio]

Cobalt SS is N/A?

[Masoud]

Dodge, GM, Nissan, etc has had to use 2.2L-2.4L's just to come close to the performance of the Honda 1.8-2.0L's.
There is no replacement for displacement, no matter how u look at it

No matter how much topend power the little engine has, it bet its no fun playing catch up from off the line

Cobalt SS is N/A?
Its supercharged

[Cav_man2004]

Cobalt SS is N/A?


roots charger

[Evil Patio]

Not to mention this car makes more torque throughout the powerband than almost any other 4 banger on the market, natrually aspirated anyway.

[SecretAgent]

i think he meant that all the other 4 cylinders on the market, that are N/A, make less torque.

lol...what a wonderful arguement as to why the car is better.

[SecretAgent]

There is no replacement for displacement, no matter how u look at it

No matter how much topend power the little engine has, it bet its no fun playing catch up from off the line


Its supercharged

actually there are several replacements for displacement. forced induction being one, lighter weight being another, technology being the most important. honda uses the latter two. they may have less torque, but they have no problem getting off the line, as long as they have an LSD, they have just enough torque in stock trim, that wheel spin is minimized, all the power gets to the ground, making for faster acceleration.

oh, and just an FYI the RSX-s and other K-series motors have 90% of their maximum torque available from as low as 2500 RPM and a suprisingly flat torque curve.

[outlawstar0817]

i test drove the ss and i thought it was ok. but damn just 205hp and its supercharged??!! :ugh2:

[Streetkred]

From what I heard the car is very good overall....

[SecretAgent]

From what I heard the car is very good overall....


then you haven't driven one.

[Mike Wazowski]

then you haven't driven one.


:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

So harsh



Mike

[Boost_it]

it has potential.. but the cobalt is far from receiving my praise.

[blackrsx]

have you ever driven a rental car? - because i bet that is what it feels like, my condolences to the thread starter on buying an 04 civic - no wonder you hate your honda

[Trader_Slick]

Cobalt SS is N/A?


there is a 170hp 2.4 liter coming out soon. But as somebody said earlier the one out now is a supercharged 2.0 liter.

[sherpag00dness]

ion redline is better

hondas get better mileage and last longer end of story

[Acertx]

Cobalt<Camaro

Sorry but I can't honestly think of a single thing that this Cobalt or Cobalt SS does better than 4th generation Camaros. Call me biased but when a friend of mine said that he wanted a new Cobalt SS I automatically assumed that he didn't know about what he was talking about. In conclusion I think a Cobalt is a waste of money, you are basically spending money on marketing. Better to research and spend money on another GM product that uses an ecotec engine.(Try Saturn?)

[TXBlackout03]

The cobalt is a rebadged Opel... not the new cavalier...

[alf]

i like the new cobalt/ion. but the ION just OWNZ me i loved it when i test drove it.

i think its a solid car that'll make a good addition to the import scene.

alf

[Dorian]

have you ever driven a rental car? - because i bet that is what it feels like. That's exactly what it feels like. Cheaply made.

ion redline is better Surprisingly I like the ION better... the quality feels somewhat better once you get past all the plastic.

[phast]

I haven't driven one but I have no desire to. I think it's great that you can pretty much build a drag car from their parts catalouge for the ECOTEC though.

[mpitre44]

Honda this, Honda that. Srt-4 this, srt-4 that.

Everyone is gonna bash honda, everyone is gonna bash dodge, everyone is gonna bash chevy. It will never end. For the price, the power it makes is outstanding. "poonkla" said the same about his srt-4 and spent 1k in interior mods to make it look better. Therfore, the same goes for the cobalt.

[Dorian]

Honda this, Honda that. Srt-4 this, srt-4 that.

Everyone is gonna bash honda, everyone is gonna bash dodge, everyone is gonna bash chevy. It will never end. For the price, the power it makes is outstanding. "poonkla" said the same about his srt-4 and spent 1k in interior mods to make it look better. Therfore, the same goes for the cobalt.
Interior mods still will not make the build quality of the car itself any better though... unless you want to strip the car all the way down and start from scratch.

[HangNail]

the ecotec is a fun motor to drive but its still a cavalier. for 7k theyre a decent deal, but for 15k ... no sir

[The_Wade95]

The only way that I would buy the cobalt would be the SS. but to me the cobalt looked better in a pic then in real life.

[super cirrus]

I love how people judge cars without ever trying them.

[blackhawk425whp]

Cobalt<Camaro

Sorry but I can't honestly think of a single thing that this Cobalt or Cobalt SS does better than 4th generation Camaros. Call me biased but when a friend of mine said that he wanted a new Cobalt SS I automatically assumed that he didn't know about what he was talking about. In conclusion I think a Cobalt is a waste of money, you are basically spending money on marketing. Better to research and spend money on another GM product that uses an ecotec engine.(Try Saturn?)
Dam dude you are comparing a rwd muscle car with a fwd eco car.. but the wtf.Lets give the ss cobalt a chance it may be a good little car..and there is nothing better than a honda its build a lot better than lots of small cars out there

[adam gs-r]

also, VTEC was NOT designed for economy. It was designed for the broadest torque curve, while not sacrificing top end horsepower. it allowed Honda to develop very small displacement motors, and still make them have decent power and compete with their larger displacement competitors. this philosophy comes from registration laws in japan where they base taxes on engine displacement, instead of just emissions like in the states. while yes, there are economy based VTEC's, better known as VTEC-e, they are a different system from the B-series VTEC's, and the new generation K-series iVTEC's. the low cam may be for economy, but the high cams would be considered all out race cams if put into another car. try finding another motor with the same displacement that comes close to it's performance numbers while still being all motor. Dodge, GM, Nissan, etc has had to use 2.2L-2.4L's just to come close to the performance of the Honda 1.8-2.0L's.


Damm, well put! Im gonna subscribe to this thread just so that I can have that around. Good show! :thumb:

[tmajik86]

Secret agents says: but they have no problem getting off the line, as long as they have an LSD. Torque solves that problem. The cobalt ss has a 60' time of 2.1. I garuntee you will never see a stock honda car run that kinda time. Maybe with an lsd and/or tires, but why do all that work for what the cobalt does stock ? I understand that most people here are import enthusiast's as i used to be. I even own a honda which i thought would be a good tuner car to enjoy modifying, but after runnin an embarassing 18.4 stock then adding intake and exhaust(2.25 piping custom catback) and taking out 100lbs, it dropped to a measly 17.8@76. Granted its a 4dr sedan without v-tec and all, but still the lowest trim 4dr cobalt runs a 16.6@84 per car and driver i believe. so as far as power is concerned, it seems to have the goods i suppose. I dunno, i know i have seen some shity cavaliers in my time and i guess thats what yall think the cobalt will be ? Maybe Gm has finally stepped-up and created a good tuner car but yet it seems its beginning to be the underdog here. Good to see opinions though, everyone seems to be making some good points...

[blackrsx]

Secret agents says: but they have no problem getting off the line, as long as they have an LSD. Torque solves that problem. The cobalt ss has a 60' time of 2.1. I garuntee you will never see a stock honda car run that kinda time. Maybe with an lsd and/or tires, but why do all that work for what the cobalt does stock ? I understand that most people here are import enthusiast's as i used to be. I even own a honda which i thought would be a good tuner car to enjoy modifying, but after runnin an embarassing 18.4 stock then adding intake and exhaust(2.25 piping custom catback) and taking out 100lbs, it dropped to a measly 17.8@76. Granted its a 4dr sedan without v-tec and all, but still the lowest trim 4dr cobalt runs a 16.6@84 per car and driver i believe. so as far as power is concerned, it seems to have the goods i suppose. I dunno, i know i have seen some shity cavaliers in my time and i guess thats what yall think the cobalt will be ? Maybe Gm has finally stepped-up and created a good tuner car but yet it seems its beginning to be the underdog here. Good to see opinions though, everyone seems to be making some good points...

wait a second here - you are complaining because you couldn't get a stock 4 door, non vtec civic past the 17s? - what did you expect? and LMAO @ you for buying a 4dr civic as a "tuner" car

why are you comparing your old civic to a new car, why don't you get a 1/4 mile time for the 05 4dr civic and compare the two?

[SecretAgent]

Secret agents says: but they have no problem getting off the line, as long as they have an LSD. Torque solves that problem. The cobalt ss has a 60' time of 2.1. I garuntee you will never see a stock honda car run that kinda time. Maybe with an lsd and/or tires, but why do all that work for what the cobalt does stock ? I understand that most people here are import enthusiast's as i used to be. I even own a honda which i thought would be a good tuner car to enjoy modifying, but after runnin an embarassing 18.4 stock then adding intake and exhaust(2.25 piping custom catback) and taking out 100lbs, it dropped to a measly 17.8@76. Granted its a 4dr sedan without v-tec and all, but still the lowest trim 4dr cobalt runs a 16.6@84 per car and driver i believe. so as far as power is concerned, it seems to have the goods i suppose. I dunno, i know i have seen some shity cavaliers in my time and i guess thats what yall think the cobalt will be ? Maybe Gm has finally stepped-up and created a good tuner car but yet it seems its beginning to be the underdog here. Good to see opinions though, everyone seems to be making some good points...

funny you should say that because on bone stock tires i cut a 2.1 60ft on my first launch. and yes, it's a bone stock honda, it's also over a second faster than the cobalt, and it's 7 years old now! and no, my car isn't some kind of freak, most people i know that have been dragging hondas for a while can cut 2.1-2.0 60ft's on stock tires, and NO LSD'S without a problem.

[tmajik86]

wait a second here - you are complaining because you couldn't get a stock 4 door, non vtec civic past the 17s? - what did you expect? and LMAO @ you for buying a 4dr civic as a "tuner" car

why are you comparing your old civic to a new car, why don't you get a 1/4 mile time for the 05 4dr civic and compare the two?


Please, Please, by all means, by me a car capable of a decent quarter mile since my funds arent adequate enough to purchase something of that nature. Seeing as how i work and go to school full time i dont have enough dough to buy a car worth a hoot. :eek3:

[tmajik86]

funny you should say that because on bone stock tires i cut a 2.1 60ft on my first launch. and yes, it's a bone stock honda, it's also over a second faster than the cobalt, and it's 7 years old now! and no, my car isn't some kind of freak, most people i know that have been dragging hondas for a while can cut 2.1-2.0 60ft's on stock tires, and NO LSD'S without a problem.


Not that i dont believe you, im guessing from your avatar you own a gsr if im not mistaken and those run a 15.7 stock, i could be wrong i dunno but anywho to cut that time in your car i dont think you could have done without revvin' to at least 5grand and tires...with that combo i think you could cut something in the low 2's.

[YesSiR]

regardless of what he would have to do "technique wise" to cut that time the point is stil..........he cut that time so the colbalt isn't high n mighty in terms of the get up and go. I agree with most in here, for 15k right now i'd rather go with somethin that isn't as fast but built a shitload better cause quality is the name of the game when it comes to overall performance. No use in havin a car that's fast if it's only fast if it can only last for a little while....

[super cirrus]

funny you should say that because on bone stock tires i cut a 2.1 60ft on my first launch. and yes, it's a bone stock honda, it's also over a second faster than the cobalt, and it's 7 years old now! and no, my car isn't some kind of freak, most people i know that have been dragging hondas for a while can cut 2.1-2.0 60ft's on stock tires, and NO LSD'S without a problem.

A second faster? The cobalt ss runs a 14.4, on big ass 18 inch wheels. Other than the nsx or a motorcycle, I cant think of a honda product thats over a second faster stock.

[BLooney1.8t]

this is crazy to me because there are about 3 pages of ppl argueing about 1/4 mile times with cars that were made by engineers whose last thought was 60' times and qtr mile runs. these are economy cars not meant to be raced, if people mod them than great, but dont try to prove your point by arguing over 17 & 18 second timeslips. if you are buying a cobalt to go fast, then you are making a bad choice. if you are buying a honda to go fast, you are making a bad choice... unless you have some asperation(sp?) to be one hell of a sleeper and spend lots of money. and if you have a 1.6L honda that can beat a 2.2L nissan/dodge/GM... then woopty fuckin doo you have a mid 16 second car! now dont get me wrong, all these cars are nice and serve the purpose they were built for, but if you want a fast car do not get a fwd, open diff. 140hp, 90tq 1.6L N/A VTEC eco-car. there are plenty of 4.6L-5.0L-5.7L cars that cost half as much and are twice as fast down the 1/4 mile.

yall can flame me, i dont care.... i own a jetta if that helps

[tmajik86]

^^^ nothing wrong to state ones opinion

[281 mn-12]

actually there are several replacements for displacement. forced induction being one, lighter weight being another, technology being the most important. honda uses the latter two. they may have less torque, but they have no problem getting off the line, as long as they have an LSD, they have just enough torque in stock trim, that wheel spin is minimized, all the power gets to the ground, making for faster acceleration.

oh, and just an FYI the RSX-s and other K-series motors have 90% of their maximum torque available from as low as 2500 RPM and a suprisingly flat torque curve.

the bigger the engine, the eazier it is to make hp and torque.
ex. 1.6L b series vs a chevy 572. that b16 has to be boosted to hell to make as much hp as the 572ci v8. 4lbs of boost could take the 572 over 1000 hp, but it could do it n/a anyways.
vtec-eco, not hp.

[BLooney1.8t]

^^^ nothing wrong to state ones opinion

thats true, but it seems like everyone is missing the point of these cars

[tmajik86]

thats true, but it seems like everyone is missing the point of these cars

Yes we all know that there mainly meant for economical uses. But not everyone can shell out the cash to go buy a v8 much less insure one. Lots of people here have modded civics, integras, neons. sentras, and so on, all of these im sure are meant for fuel economy but its almost easier to buy a 14k car and put 5k in it or so to run a 14, when most mustangs run low 14's for 23k or so. That might not be accurate but just an example. so i dont think there's anything wrong with modding a cobalt since some the ecotec powered drag cars put out slightly over 1000hp.

[SecretAgent]

Not that i dont believe you, im guessing from your avatar you own a gsr if im not mistaken and those run a 15.7 stock, i could be wrong i dunno but anywho to cut that time in your car i dont think you could have done without revvin' to at least 5grand and tires...with that combo i think you could cut something in the low 2's.



that's not a gsr, that's a Type R.


and blooney1.8t, please tell me how an integra type r, and a supercharged chevy are economy cars??? they are sport compacts. why would an economy car have 11.3:1 compression, an 8500rpm redline, sport suspension that is too stiff, a loud exhaust, an even louder intake, no sound deadening, and come with tires that only last 10k miles??



281 mn-12 you can't compare a 1.6L honda motor to a 7.4 liter chevy big block. that's like apples and buicks. comparing them is retarded, especially since the 572 was never a production motor. the only viable comparison for the PRODUCTION B16 is another motor from another manufacturer put into a car in the same class as the car with the B16. also since you are so certain that VTEC is for economy, please show me an economy car with a B series VTEC motor or a K-series i-VTEC motor. sorry, but the VTEC that everyone wants in their honda is purely for performance and torque. if it was for economy the high cam wouldn't be so big that a car won't even idle with it. they wouldn't have cam spec numbers such as 290 degrees on a stock GSR. when has a cam with thatmuch duration EVER been put into an economy car??

[Alex16]

Yes we all know that there mainly meant for economical uses. But not everyone can shell out the cash to go buy a v8 much less insure one. Lots of people here have modded civics, integras, neons. sentras, and so on, all of these im sure are meant for fuel economy but its almost easier to buy a 14k car and put 5k in it or so to run a 14, when most mustangs run low 14's for 23k or so. That might not be accurate but just an example. so i dont think there's anything wrong with modding a cobalt since some the ecotec powered drag cars put out slightly over 1000hp.

*note* Everyone has their own opinion for me Colbalt :yeahno:

It doesn't take that much even, for under 10,000 you can get a LS1 Camaro. If you have enough money to buy a Colbalt than IMO you should buy something that's... 100 times better. And BTW ask one of those ecotec dragster owners how much money they have in those engines and how long they last for me, thanks.

[BLooney1.8t]

Yes we all know that there mainly meant for economical uses. But not everyone can shell out the cash to go buy a v8 much less insure one. Lots of people here have modded civics, integras, neons. sentras, and so on, all of these im sure are meant for fuel economy but its almost easier to buy a 14k car and put 5k in it or so to run a 14, when most mustangs run low 14's for 23k or so.

i hear what you say but i disagree, my friend has a '92 5.0L mustang that he got for just over 3Gs. he bought it with his own money and insures it and pays for gas all on his own, and he works at a driving range picking up and washing golf balls lol. it has been pretty reliable and is pretty damn fast. and if someone can "shell out" the cash for a brand new cobalt, then they can deffinetly afford something that is faster, better built, and consumes less gas. (not saying that the cobalt lacks in any of these, just an example)

That might not be accurate but just an example. so i dont think there's anything wrong with modding a cobalt since some the ecotec powered drag cars put out slightly over 1000hp.

i never said there was anything wrong with modding a cobalt, in fact i like the SS version, well at least i like the commercials, but my point is if your buying a cobalt to mod it and race it, there are much better options

[OneArmedScissor]

I've seen a few of threads dealing with the cobalt go kinda sour. Apparently everybody thinks the cobalt is the continuation of the crappy cavalier. Its not, yea it maybe a economy car in the 15k range, but arent civics, integras sentras, and all those other cars. I dont see what makes them so crappy. As far as i can see this car is more potent than hondas or acuras or what not. Not to mention this car makes more torque throughout the powerband than almost any other 4 banger on the market, natrually aspirated anyway. And torque is what gets you moving, not vtec to everybody's dismay. I think its funny that everybody thinks vtec is supposed to be some big power adder when it was meant for fuel economy. discuss...


the second part of your post has been beaten to death on this forum.

the cobalt will suck simply because GM has never before been able to make a successful entry into the small low cost compact segment.

The cobalt,IMO will not be any different. GM has great engineers however the bean counting department destroys any hope of creating a good car so long as they try too hard to keep costs down.

The c6 is an example of what can be done if GM engineers are allowed to stretch their legs a little bit.

[mpitre44]

the second part of your post has been beaten to death on this forum.

the cobalt will suck simply because GM has never before been able to make a successful entry into the small low cost compact segment.

The cobalt,IMO will not be any different. GM has great engineers however the bean counting department destroys any hope of creating a good car so long as they try too hard to keep costs down.

The c6 is an example of what can be done if GM engineers are allowed to stretch their legs a little bit.

So the cavalier wasn't a good entry into the sport compact world? Lots of people build those, maby not that many around here, but plenty throughout the world.

Meanwhile, lets give the cobalt time to sell, see what prices come out like, and compare it to the car of its class, the srt4.

Comparing it to a b16 honda is pointless to me simply because for the get up and go power, is so... so much different.

And as far as the economical statement. A tuned 4cycl is 4 pistons more economical than a tuned v8 anyday of the week. Economical says nothing about spd or track times, its about the miles per gallon of gas you get.

[OneArmedScissor]

So the cavalier wasn't a good entry into the sport compact world? Lots of people build those, maby not that many around here, but plenty throughout the world.

Meanwhile, lets give the cobalt time to sell, see what prices come out like, and compare it to the car of its class, the srt4.

Comparing it to a b16 honda is pointless to me simply because for the get up and go power, is so... so much different.

And as far as the economical statement. A tuned 4cycl is 4 pistons more economical than a tuned v8 anyday of the week. Economical says nothing about spd or track times, its about the miles per gallon of gas you get.


the quad 4 based engines are an example of GM pushing a failed technology, once touted as a lemon instead of scrapping the project they attempted to refine it until it was capable of being passable.'

cost cutting measures in order to keep in competition, price-wise, with foreign counterparts is what destroys GM. They are forced to deal with labor instead of kapital investments because of job protectionist measures.
As a consequence labor is extremely expensive comparitively and the quality of the product when entered into economic competition dollar for dollar is significantly less.

you will see the same thing happen to japanese cars once china enters the automotive market.

[mpitre44]

the quad 4 based engines are an example of GM pushing a failed technology, once touted as a lemon instead of scrapping the project they attempted to refine it until it was capable of being passable.'

cost cutting measures in order to keep in competition, price-wise, with foreign counterparts is what destroys GM. They are forced to deal with labor instead of kapital investments because of job protectionist measures.
As a consequence labor is extremely expensive comparitively and the quality of the product when entered into economic competition dollar for dollar is significantly less.

you will see the same thing happen to japanese cars once china enters the automotive market.

Understood, but i wouldn't call the quad 4 a failed concept. During toyota's partnership with general motors, toyota was able to "make it better" and mass produce it in today's TRD Tacoma. Not quite a failure, just needed to be worked on.

And cavs stopped using the quad four in 98 i think, which was the end of the z24. But the motor was still used in some of gm's middle class cars. It wasn't that bad of a motor.

[281 mn-12]

that's not a gsr, that's a Type R.


and blooney1.8t, please tell me how an integra type r, and a supercharged chevy are economy cars??? they are sport compacts. why would an economy car have 11.3:1 compression, an 8500rpm redline, sport suspension that is too stiff, a loud exhaust, an even louder intake, no sound deadening, and come with tires that only last 10k miles??



281 mn-12 you can't compare a 1.6L honda motor to a 7.4 liter chevy big block. that's like apples and buicks. comparing them is retarded, especially since the 572 was never a production motor. the only viable comparison for the PRODUCTION B16 is another motor from another manufacturer put into a car in the same class as the car with the B16. also since you are so certain that VTEC is for economy, please show me an economy car with a B series VTEC motor or a K-series i-VTEC motor. sorry, but the VTEC that everyone wants in their honda is purely for performance and torque. if it was for economy the high cam wouldn't be so big that a car won't even idle with it. they wouldn't have cam spec numbers such as 290 degrees on a stock GSR. when has a cam with thatmuch duration EVER been put into an economy car??

1) you CAN compare the 2 engines.they both run off of gasoline and are used to move a 4 wheel vehicle right?
2)VTEC IS for economy. yes you can have wild cams. but they are their for 2 reasons. first, to atract buyers because of the hp ratings and second, the insane lift and duration is not so insane when only one valve is opened, is it?
3)Do you understand how VTEC works? the first versions had nothing to do with the cams. it was about the valve lifters. 1 valve opens and closes, but when rpm is up high enough the 2nd vavle opens up.
4) IMHO, i wouldnt say VTEC is performance oriented.

[tmajik86]

^^^ i would have to agree about vtec being not performance related. Granted you can make it a performance thing but its main purpose isnt for racing

[RuneSoulja]

I've seen a few of threads dealing with the cobalt go kinda sour. Apparently everybody thinks the cobalt is the continuation of the crappy cavalier. Its not, yea it maybe a economy car in the 15k range, but arent civics, integras sentras, and all those other cars. I dont see what makes them so crappy. As far as i can see this car is more potent than hondas or acuras or what not. Not to mention this car makes more torque throughout the powerband than almost any other 4 banger on the market, natrually aspirated anyway. And torque is what gets you moving, not vtec to everybody's dismay. I think its funny that everybody thinks vtec is supposed to be some big power adder when it was meant for fuel economy. discuss...

agreed for the most part. :rock:

[SecretAgent]

1) you CAN compare the 2 engines.they both run off of gasoline and are used to move a 4 wheel vehicle right?
2)VTEC IS for economy. yes you can have wild cams. but they are their for 2 reasons. first, to atract buyers because of the hp ratings and second, the insane lift and duration is not so insane when only one valve is opened, is it?
3)Do you understand how VTEC works? the first versions had nothing to do with the cams. it was about the valve lifters. 1 valve opens and closes, but when rpm is up high enough the 2nd vavle opens up.
4) IMHO, i wouldnt say VTEC is performance oriented.


1. no you cannot compare the motors, one is a production motor, the other is a all out race motor. two completely different beasts. if you want to compare race motors compare the 3.0L honda V10 to the chevy 572, and see how close their power output is.

2. where the hell are you getting only one valve is opened?? it's only like that on a couple VTEC motors, and they are all for economy.

3. I understand completely how VTEC works, do you? and no, the first VTECs did not have the system you are talking about. the first VTECS were the CRX SiR with the B16A and the NSX with the C30A. the economy VTECS didn't come out until the early 90's with the 1.3L and 1.5L SOHC's, and later with the 1.6L SOHC D-series, all motors that come with that system are referred to as VTEC-e, or VTEC with economy.

4. if VTEC isn't derived from performance, please explain to me why it was first developed for Formula 1 racing.

[turboteg]

A second faster? The cobalt ss runs a 14.4, on big ass 18 inch wheels. Other than the nsx or a motorcycle, I cant think of a honda product thats over a second faster stock.

I would hope it would run that. It is supercharged.

[dantheman]

281 mn-12 you can't compare a 1.6L honda motor to a 7.4 liter chevy big block. that's like apples and buicks. comparing them is retarded, especially since the 572 was never a production motor. the only viable comparison for the PRODUCTION B16 is another motor from another manufacturer put into a car in the same class as the car with the B16. also since you are so certain that VTEC is for economy, please show me an economy car with a B series VTEC motor or a K-series i-VTEC motor. sorry, but the VTEC that everyone wants in their honda is purely for performance and torque. if it was for economy the high cam wouldn't be so big that a car won't even idle with it. they wouldn't have cam spec numbers such as 290 degrees on a stock GSR. when has a cam with thatmuch duration EVER been put into an economy car??


just nit picking a bit. the 7.4 is the 454 which was a production engine for many many years. the 572 is a 9.3 liter. its a monster and it is a race motor.

the arguement was that a bigger motor will always produce more torque and hp. a fully built honda NA or FI is probably maxed out completely around 800-1000 hp (im not sure so im guessing here) the 572 makes 600 on its mild tune from the guys at chevy. built as built as you can get it you could make thousands of HP. John Forces car makes 4000hp or something retarded like that and goes 300+mph in the 1/4.

vtec did get implimented in some performance varients Type R, Si, GSR, NSX, whatever else but what your missing is the common conception of VTEC. how many civics (NON SI) came with Vtec? how many accords? shit damn near all of them do. 96+ there is like 2 models without VTEC for the civic right? civic is an economy car right? the VTEC models get 30+mpg and still turn 1/4miles in respectable (to the average driver) 16's and 17's. lets face it the average driver doesnt know what VTEC is and probably never engages it, even better still is when they engage it they dont know wtf their car just pepped up for but they are taking it to a mechanic to get it checked out.

in short, does VTEC have a performane aspect to it? yes of course in the higher end DOHC cars. Does VTEC help an enomoy car not be sooooooo slow while still getting decent mileage? yes of course it does. VTEC is an economy marketing tool. yes it can be used in a performance aspect and may very well have been developed for racing. but honda saw a better way to use it and that was to help liven up their economy cars while still maintaining weak cam profile gas mileage. cause lets face it if a VTEC motor had VTEC cam profiles for the entire range im sure it would get shitty mileage.

[SecretAgent]

you're misunderstanding what they're saying. they are saying that VTEC is purely for gas mileage. which it isn't. if it was for economy, it wouldn't have big giant hi cams that suck down gas every time you engage them. they allow a performance engine to be economical, not to make an economy engine more economical.

[yourmom25]

here's a little reading material for those HI-ers that don't know what VTEC is but claim they do.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=question229.htm&url=http://www.leecao.com/honda/vtec/whatsvtec.html

also check the links on the left sidebar...it talks about the different vtec types that honda has come out with, namely the vtec-e that secretagent talked about that no one else probably knew of.

i dont think howstuffworks would link to false info. some people need to try reading before they post false information. you're not as smart as you think you are.

[nightracer]

http://home.elka.pw.edu.pl/~pgrabow1/kolezka.swf?name=cobalt :eekbunny:

[mpitre44]

http://home.elka.pw.edu.pl/~pgrabow1/kolezka.swf?name=cobalt :eekbunny:
you my friend are gay

[tmajik86]

This thread might have gone a little overboard from what i wanted. some of the discussions are good, but if were gonna talk performance. lets take the base model cobalt and the base model civic which would be a dx/hx correct?? anywho, take a base 05 cobalt and a base 05 dx/hx that are both sedans and automatic and put them through the 1/4. cobalt will beat the honda by nearly 2 seconds,according to car and driver the sedan version of the cobalt with auto runs a 16.6@84. and with my own experience with an lx sedan ive ran a 18.42@74. Many people say modding the cobalt is a bad idea, but from what i see here its by far a more potent competitor than a honda is. i might be lookin at it the wrong way but the cobalt just seems to be a better perforimg car.

[BLooney1.8t]

and blooney1.8t, please tell me how an integra type r, and a supercharged chevy are economy cars???

"economy cars" to me are cars with small engines, FWD, and good gas mileage.

and please tell me why more ppl get integras to drive to work than they do to race.

the SS is only 1 of the 3 versions of the cobalt coming out and the type R integra was 1 or like 4 integras... explain the other cobalts and 95% of the integras sold and convince me they arent economy cars.

they are economy cars, not meant to be raced, big fuckin deal

[BLooney1.8t]

the cobalt just seems to be a better perforimg car.

i agree 100%

[LamTran]

i think when honda stating or ppl mention economy in VTEC, they meant the most efficient engine they can produce out of 1% efficiency (in carnot engine cycle). some ppl are just stretchin the word "economy".

however, i think we can all agree that a VTEC engine or variable valve timing are more efficient(in power or gas guzzer) than a non-vtec.

[02bluez28]

that's not a gsr, that's a Type R.


and blooney1.8t, please tell me how an integra type r, and a supercharged chevy are economy cars??? they are sport compacts. why would an economy car have 11.3:1 compression, an 8500rpm redline, sport suspension that is too stiff, a loud exhaust, an even louder intake, no sound deadening, and come with tires that only last 10k miles??



281 mn-12 you can't compare a 1.6L honda motor to a 7.4 liter chevy big block. that's like apples and buicks. comparing them is retarded, especially since the 572 was never a production motor. the only viable comparison for the PRODUCTION B16 is another motor from another manufacturer put into a car in the same class as the car with the B16. also since you are so certain that VTEC is for economy, please show me an economy car with a B series VTEC motor or a K-series i-VTEC motor. sorry, but the VTEC that everyone wants in their honda is purely for performance and torque. if it was for economy the high cam wouldn't be so big that a car won't even idle with it. they wouldn't have cam spec numbers such as 290 degrees on a stock GSR. when has a cam with thatmuch duration EVER been put into an economy car??
7.4 liter? that would be a 454 not a 572 but u almost got that one. type r is a decent car and is quick for what it is... not much faster than a cobalt ss if any at all... srt-4 faster than both but uglier....

srt4,type r, and cobalt ss all prove u cant have a quick import with out a huge gay ass wing..... much like sti's and gay ass evo's that is all

[02bluez28]

just nit picking a bit. the 7.4 is the 454 which was a production engine for many many years. the 572 is a 9.3 liter. its a monster and it is a race motor.

the arguement was that a bigger motor will always produce more torque and hp. a fully built honda NA or FI is probably maxed out completely around 800-1000 hp (im not sure so im guessing here) the 572 makes 600 on its mild tune from the guys at chevy. built as built as you can get it you could make thousands of HP. John Forces car makes 4000hp or something retarded like that and goes 300+mph in the 1/4.

vtec did get implimented in some performance varients Type R, Si, GSR, NSX, whatever else but what your missing is the common conception of VTEC. how many civics (NON SI) came with Vtec? how many accords? shit damn near all of them do. 96+ there is like 2 models without VTEC for the civic right? civic is an economy car right? the VTEC models get 30+mpg and still turn 1/4miles in respectable (to the average driver) 16's and 17's. lets face it the average driver doesnt know what VTEC is and probably never engages it, even better still is when they engage it they dont know wtf their car just pepped up for but they are taking it to a mechanic to get it checked out.

in short, does VTEC have a performane aspect to it? yes of course in the higher end DOHC cars. Does VTEC help an enomoy car not be sooooooo slow while still getting decent mileage? yes of course it does. VTEC is an economy marketing tool. yes it can be used in a performance aspect and may very well have been developed for racing. but honda saw a better way to use it and that was to help liven up their economy cars while still maintaining weak cam profile gas mileage. cause lets face it if a VTEC motor had VTEC cam profiles for the entire range im sure it would get shitty mileage.
eh u got to it first good game...

i want a 572 sigh

[Allgocrx]

damn the ss cobalt is shit, i could supercharge any SOHC vtec honda and be = peformance for less cash, or maybe supercharge my DOHC vtec engine and kill any cobalt period, plus the honda engine is so well built it will out live any gm pos as long as you do regular maintaince, example i have a crx si i put a ls swap into it(i know not stock engine but still) then raced my friends cobalt ss at the track we both ran high 14's, later he told me he regreded getting the cobalt ss and i laughed because i told him before mommy and daddy bought him the car, end of story everyone has there own opinion.

[sherpag00dness]

its a saab engine....so i dont think durability will be an issue at all.

[HangNail]

they are economy cars, not meant to be raced, big fuckin deal

please just stop posting

[XxdsmxX]

i test drove the ss and i thought it was ok. but damn just 205hp and its supercharged??!! :ugh2:
When did u test drive and who's ass did u kiss :kissmyass to drive the ss u cant drive it unless u are going to buy 1 to much trouble to go through just to test drive a 4 banger oh ya it only has like 4-5 psi they make pully kit gives u 100 more horsepower :rock:

[XxdsmxX]

ion redline is better

hondas get better mileage and last longer end of story
Ya if U leave it stock and drive like bitch.

[XxdsmxX]

damn the ss cobalt is shit, i could supercharge any SOHC vtec honda and be = peformance for less cash, or maybe supercharge my DOHC vtec engine and kill any cobalt period, plus the honda engine is so well built it will out live any gm pos as long as you do regular maintaince, example i have a crx si i put a ls swap into it(i know not stock engine but still) then raced my friends cobalt ss at the track we both ran high 14's, later he told me he regreded getting the cobalt ss and i laughed because i told him before mommy and daddy bought him the car, end of story everyone has there own opinion.
When did he get the car they have been on backorder for awhile just 1 per dealer plus u need a better driver or he probly still hasnt broke it in yet. all u need is pulley kit

[Sissycivic]

i love this car, i work for GM and no matter how much yall hate it face it, GM has and probly always will have more power/torque than honda, and the arguement on there are ways around displacment, its hard to. I drive a honda civic single cam vtec and its sad to say, but it is the slowest thing i have ever driven, top end or bottom end my cavalier was faster, the vtec helps none, you can't even feel the change in power on a car like that. its sad have to turn off my a/c to enter the freeway, or i wont even make it. besides gas mileage and resale value, i dont think honda has anything over this car, and gas mileage isn't that car different. plus gm last just as long we get cars with over 200,000 miles on it running like they were brand new. for the money you pay for a cobalt, you are not going to get another 4 banger that even compares.

[Evil Patio]

oh jeez

[BLooney1.8t]

please just stop posting

so your sayin that these are meant to be race cars? i guess thats why these civics come with 110hp and 60tq :thumb:

[mpitre44]

so your sayin that these are meant to be race cars? i guess thats why these civics come with 110hp and 60tq :thumb:

wrd, like onle 85 hp at the wheels, and thats at 8k rpms

[HangNail]

so your sayin that these are meant to be race cars? i guess thats why these civics come with 110hp and 60tq :thumb:
what the hell do you think a b16 is for? b18c? whats the point of a motor that revs beyond 8k? whats an s2000 for? why does my car have sway bars and 4 discs? why can it pull the rear tires in a turn completely stock? why does yours have a turbo?

[dantheman]

for the money you pay for a cobalt, you are not going to get another 4 banger that even compares.


SRT4 240hp 21000
Mazda Speed Protege 180hp 15-19ish USED
Subaru WRX 227hp 24000
Acura RSX-S 210hp 23000
hell even the Civic Si 17000, Sentra SE-R Spec V 18000 can compete.

order inwhich i would prefer them

WRX, MSP, RSXS, SPEC V, SRT4, Cobalt SS, Si.

just dont like the looks of the SRT4 even though they can be made fast and are pretty fun to drive.

[SecretAgent]

or you can buy a used type r for 14-18k. have 200hp, and handling better than many ferrari's, along with reliability that no GM car will ever be able to match.

[rage]

the misinformation in this thread is amazing.

[iMOTION S14]

Dodge, GM, Nissan, etc has had to use 2.2L-2.4L's just to come close to the performance of the Honda 1.8-2.0L's.

Autech SR20DE 200PS/197HP, no VTEC/VVL, no turbo.

[HangNail]

Autech SR20DE 200PS/197HP, no VTEC/VVL, no turbo.
stock back top 1.6l 20v 4age ~180hp no vtec no turbo whats your point

[iMOTION S14]

stock back top 1.6l 20v 4age ~180hp no vtec no turbo whats your point

Apparently you can't read.

Dodge, GM, Nissan, etc has had to use 2.2L-2.4L's just to come close to the performance of the Honda 1.8-2.0L's.

[mpitre44]

the bolt ons designed for the cobalt are going to add lots of power right off the back.

although i do agree with the cars listed above to compete, except the civic and the sentra. As far as the others go, think about the level of skill to install upgrades or so on.

The cobalt is not a bad machine.

And the statment about chevy using bigger displacement engines, is one of the stupidest things i've read. Its just a case of more standard power.

[281 mn-12]

the misinformation in this thread is amazing.

yep.

any car can be reliable, so long as you maintain it.

one dude made a comment on sway bars... sway bars come on many cars.... it keeps the ride from wobbling and not looking cheap, not for handling.

anymone can loose tracion in a turn... what is your point?

[281 mn-12]

the bolt ons designed for the cobalt are going to add lots of power right off the back.

although i do agree with the cars listed above to compete, except the civic and the sentra. As far as the others go, think about the level of skill to install upgrades or so on.

The cobalt is not a bad machine.

And the statment about chevy using bigger displacement engines, is one of the stupidest things i've read. Its just a case of more standard power.

according to motortrend, cobolts run on regular, not premium fuel... its easy to see that car making 20+ rwhp from premium fuel and timing advance.

[conecrazy]

qtr mile isn't everything. if the car doesn't feel precise, then i think it's a piece of crap. precise being everything from the way it corners to the way it feels like when you shift.

i dunno how the neons are now, but when i drove an older ACR the shifter felt like a toilet plunger.

sure the "sport compact" car can be fast. but if it's not fun drive then what's point?

[BLooney1.8t]

what the hell do you think a b16 is for? b18c? whats the point of a motor that revs beyond 8k? whats an s2000 for? why does my car have sway bars and 4 discs? why can it pull the rear tires in a turn completely stock? why does yours have a turbo?

since they tax cars on bigger engines in japan, thats why they have smaller displacement

reving beyond 8K means jack shit... ls1s redline at like 6K so whats your point?

an s2000 is for daily driving

your car has a sway bar and 4 discs because this isnt 1980 and its more effiecient and safe

why would you WANT to pull the wheels when you turn, that seems like a turn off knowing i could roll the car taking a turn

my car has a turbo because its pretty heavy for small displacement, and it saves gas, beside the turbo is the size of your index finger and thumb in a circle so its not doin much

[HangNail]

sigh
drums = ecomony
there are plenty of economy cars w/o sways. i own one.
im not bothering with any of your other points because youre obviously retarded. btw i own a v8 domestic as well

[BLooney1.8t]

sigh
drums = ecomony
there are plenty of economy cars w/o sways. i own one.
im not bothering with any of your other points because youre obviously retarded. btw i own a v8 domestic as well

drums = outdated and old technology

my moms 4Runner has 4 wheel disk... does that mean its a race car?
and my friends 5.0 mustang has drums... does that mean its economy?

judging a car's general use on whether it has 4 disks or 2 is the stupidest thing ive ever heard.

you own a v8 domestic... what is it a 1990 silverado with a 5.7L and you think you have an Ls1? GOOD POINT DUDE!!

[281 mn-12]

qtr mile isn't everything. if the car doesn't feel precise, then i think it's a piece of crap. precise being everything from the way it corners to the way it feels like when you shift.

i dunno how the neons are now, but when i drove an older ACR the shifter felt like a toilet plunger.

sure the "sport compact" car can be fast. but if it's not fun drive then what's point?

... lol

if the person was serious enough about track, then they would not get a fwd car. also, the thread starter is intrested in 1/4 mile, like 80% of the people on the board who cares about modding.

[conecrazy]

true... but it doesn't have to be a track car for it to be fun. take the CRX, in stock form, for instance. the car felt very sure footed, it didn't have much power but it felt peppy enough to bring a smile to your face.

I think that is the problem with a lot of these sport compact cars today (not just GM). the scion tc, for example. although it feels like it has some get up and go, it's still a dog everywhere else.

[HangNail]

yep its a silverado

http://users4.ev1.net/~manleyconsult/pics/MVC-907F.JPG

[BLooney1.8t]

damn im good

[super cirrus]

an s2000 is for daily driving



Huh? Thats way off...

[super cirrus]

SRT4 240hp 21000
Mazda Speed Protege 180hp 15-19ish USED
Subaru WRX 227hp 24000
Acura RSX-S 210hp 23000
hell even the Civic Si 17000, Sentra SE-R Spec V 18000 can compete.

order inwhich i would prefer them

WRX, MSP, RSXS, SPEC V, SRT4, Cobalt SS, Si.

just dont like the looks of the SRT4 even though they can be made fast and are pretty fun to drive.

WRX = RSX > SRT4 = Cobalt SS > Spec V > MSP > Civic SI . Thats the order I would buy them in personally. But for the price its hard to beat. Its one of the fastest in this list and it runs on regular, so it should save a couple pennies at the pump.

[aznhtownboi]

A second faster? The cobalt ss runs a 14.4, on big ass 18 inch wheels. Other than the nsx or a motorcycle, I cant think of a honda product thats over a second faster stock.

how bout the s2k its not a second faster but it is faster for only about $17-20 for a decent used one. the s2k has been around a little while it has more aftermatket products for it. if you were going to chose between the two the s2k or most other honda sport vehicles would be a better choice because of the vast tuning options and potential.

im not bashing on the cobalt it being a fairly new car and tuning potentials for it are yet to be revealed and it could very well be a monster but at the moment hondas is ahead of the game :rock:

[PissYellowGTi]

i was driving earlier and thought i saw a skyline way up ahead so i sped up and it was a fucking cobalt!

[HangNail]

i was driving earlier and thought i saw a skyline way up ahead so i sped up and it was a fucking impala!

[-=E36=-]

the cobalt is fucking retarded.

Ryan

[mikesrex]

the cobalt is fucking retarded.

Ryan
werd.

All you guys can talk all this shit. But when it comes down to real world people with real cars racing real races at real racetracks, cars like the Cobalt will get their asses stomped by Hondas, Nissans, Toyotas, and all the other "economy" cars.

[PissYellowGTi]

i was driving earlier and thought i saw a skyline way up ahead so i sped up and it was a fucking impala!

No, it was a Cobalt

[-=E36=-]

Since when did every person in America start buying cars just for drag strip times? Really no one gives a fuck what time a stock Cobalt runs or how much improvement it can make with a few mods. When it comes down to it, the car is still made by chevy and will still have chevy interior. I dont even want to get into the handling acpect of this car. :rolleyes:

Ryan

[super cirrus]

Since when did every person in America start buying cars just for drag strip times? Really no one gives a fuck what time a stock Cobalt runs or how much improvement it can make with a few mods. When it comes down to it, the car is still made by chevy and will still have chevy interior. I dont even want to get into the handling acpect of this car. :rolleyes:

Ryan

Handles about the same as every other fwd car...

[-=E36=-]

Handles about the same as every other fwd car...

And this is why your SN should be "Ignorant".

Ryan

[ofay]

And this is why your SN should be "Ignorant".

Ryan
pwnd



and a word of advace to all of you, dont argue handling with ryan.

[super cirrus]

And this is why your SN should be "Ignorant".

Ryan
care to explain? Or are you gonna leave me hanging?

[-=E36=-]

care to explain? Or are you gonna leave me hanging?

Okay, not only ignorant, just plain dumb. You seriously didnt get what I meant by ignorant?

Ryan

[super cirrus]

Okay, not only ignorant, just plain dumb. You seriously didnt get what I meant by ignorant?

Ryan
Nope. Thats why i asked you to explain, duh.

[-=E36=-]

Nope. Thats why i asked you to explain, duh.

By ignorant I meant you were talking out of your ass. As in "you dont know what the fuck you are saying".

Ryan

[super cirrus]

And why do you figure that?

[-=E36=-]

And why do you figure that?

Because if you werent speaking from your ass you would have had a different response. As in one that said "FFD cars can handle very different, some suck and others dont."

Ryan

[Sissycivic]

why are 90% of the people who drive hondas,think there is nothing better, and s2000=slow!!!

[Sissycivic]

no matter what it is really to me nothing is considered quick to me unless its in low 12's, just my opinion

[super cirrus]

Because if you werent speaking from your ass you would have had a different response. As in one that said "FFD cars can handle very different, some suck and others dont."

Ryan
I didn't mean every fwd car. I meant the "sporty" ones in the cobalts price range that I was comparing it to earlier. the civic si, spec-v, srt4, rsx, etc.

[-=E36=-]

why are 90% of the people who drive hondas,think there is nothing better, and s2000=slow!!!

I dont think one single person who owns a Honda think its the very best car. Since when was the S2000 meant to compete at a drag strip?

Ryan

[-=E36=-]

I meant the "sporty" ones in the cobalts price range that I was comparing it to earlier. the civic si, spec-v, srt4, rsx, etc.

All of which handle very different with the "shitty" Hondas at the top.

Ryan

[super cirrus]

why are 90% of the people who drive hondas,think there is nothing better, and s2000=slow!!!
for someone with a civic in their avatar, you sure are hating on honda.

[-=E36=-]

for someone with a civic in their avatar, you sure are hating on honda.

Look at his user name.

Ryan

[ofay]

i think you should all just settle this at the next autoX.

[super cirrus]

Heh, I've been wanting to try autoX for awhile, but I dont think the cirrus would survive...

[ofay]

Heh, I've been wanting to try autoX for awhile, but I dont think the cirrus would survive...
well you could allways just go out and see how these fwd cars that you think are good turn out.

[-=E36=-]

Ill borrow my moms civic.

Ryan

[ofay]

Ill borrow my moms civic.

Ryan
maybe my car will be ready to run and you can give me some pointers

[conecrazy]

Heh, I've been wanting to try autoX for awhile, but I dont think the cirrus would survive...

if the car doesn't survive an autox, then it's probably not safe to drive on the road.

[Sissycivic]

for someone with a civic in their avatar, you sure are hating on honda.
i dont have to like it to drive it, i mean they are alright cars, but other than looking decent and gas mileage aren't good for anything else, i didn't figure i would put my truck in the avatar since this is a "import" forum

[super cirrus]

if the car doesn't survive an autox, then it's probably not safe to drive on the road.
You don't know how right you are...

[tmajik86]

Well, i think most of the people who say they dislike it is some what because they are scared of it. In terms of performance, it has more power than most I4 and some v6's that are of import built. Its funny how one person said it will have a chevy interior. well im sorry you have to have a luxurious interior in your car to make up for its lack of power, but if thats your thing, whatever works. I understand this is a import forum and it will be baised towards imports. I was just simply asking yalls perspective on the car. Seems most of yall dont like it, but its alot better than my civic to say the least. And to settle the dispute of power about this car, quite frankly theres no the sayin no replacement for displacementis true because the 2.2L comes with with enough torque to pretty much beat all other I4 out there.

[mikesrex]

And to settle the dispute of power about this car, quite frankly theres no the sayin no replacement for displacementis true because the 2.2L comes with with enough torque to pretty much beat all other I4 out there.

I don't understand your logic.

Comparing your 4 door civic to the Cobalt is like comparing a Cavalier to a Dodge SRT4. Except the SRT4 is much better than the Cobalt.

You sit here and knock your 4 door like its main purpose in its existance is to haul ass. You should have bought a different car than a brand new four door civic if you want to haul ass. Most people with fast Hondas have older models with varying degrees of built/swapped motors.

Yes, you can make your brand new civic fast if you want to spend a lot doing a k series swap and forced induction, but you will spend a lot more money than it would take to buy another car to race with.

that being said, my B16A will stomp the living shit out of the POS Cobalt motor. If any of you go buy a Cobalt and want to pick on Hondas, PM me and I will race you with my all motor B16A-powered hatch.

[mpitre44]

I don't understand your logic.

Comparing your 4 door civic to the Cobalt is like comparing a Cavalier to a Dodge SRT4. Except the SRT4 is much better than the Cobalt.

You sit here and knock your 4 door like its main purpose in its existance is to haul ass. You should have bought a different car than a brand new four door civic if you want to haul ass. Most people with fast Hondas have older models with varying degrees of built/swapped motors.

Yes, you can make your brand new civic fast if you want to spend a lot doing a k series swap and forced induction, but you will spend a lot more money than it would take to buy another car to race with.

that being said, my B16A will stomp the living shit out of the POS Cobalt motor. If any of you go buy a Cobalt and want to pick on Hondas, PM me and I will race you with my all motor B16A-powered hatch.
man come on mike, you're being real biased right now.
You don't do that about any of ther other FI cars such as the sti, gti, etc. You did bang the srt though. But i completely agree with you about building older cars, but don't knock the cobalt until you drive a built one.

[Sissycivic]

man come on mike, you're being real biased right now.
You don't do that about any of ther other FI cars such as the sti, gti, etc. You did bang the srt though. But i completely agree with you about building older cars, but don't knock the cobalt until you drive a built one.
agreed and for someone who has a honda, that can run a built srt4, i give you props.

[tmajik86]

To mikesrex,
I got a 4 door civic cause at the time it was the only thing i could afford and i just needed a car quick so i made a decision i regret. Im into racing but all i had was my honda which is just a piece of shit honestly. The quality of this car is extremely bad. Its already having trans problem, i cant believe it cant hold the 90whp it makes. There nothing good about this car. Now the cobalt on the other hand makes more power, has a better interior IMO, and looks better. I was reading a gm high performance mag and with i/h/e and a 75 shot, a 03 cavalier with an ecotec motor similiar to a cobalt's dyno'ed 200hp and 285torque. All on stock motor and powertrain. No other import 4 cyclinder can make that much power with the above formentioned mods much less handle the power with all the stock equipment. 285ft lb of torque to the wheels is only like 100 ft lbs less than most honda drag cars, now thats just pathetic...

[SecretAgent]

To mikesrex,
I got a 4 door civic cause at the time it was the only thing i could afford and i just needed a car quick so i made a decision i regret. Im into racing but all i had was my honda which is just a piece of shit honestly. The quality of this car is extremely bad. Its already having trans problem, i cant believe it cant hold the 90whp it makes. There nothing good about this car. Now the cobalt on the other hand makes more power, has a better interior IMO, and looks better. I was reading a gm high performance mag and with i/h/e and a 75 shot, a 03 cavalier with an ecotec motor similiar to a cobalt's dyno'ed 200hp and 285torque. All on stock motor and powertrain. No other import 4 cyclinder can make that much power with the above formentioned mods much less handle the power with all the stock equipment. 285ft lb of torque to the wheels is only like 100 ft lbs less than most honda drag cars, now thats just pathetic...


lol...man, you're so in the dark. 285ft lbs only 100 less than most honda drag cars?? funny, most of the cars i know are making 600+ ft lbs. shit, my 140hp 1.8L LS integra made over 285 ft lbs on nitrous, and MUCH more than 200whp as well. i also had i/h/e, but my motor was 10 years old at the time, and had over 130k miles on it. i will give you this tho, my stock 130k OEM clutch didn't hold for more than 3 weeks on the gas, but after a quick clutch change, all was good. so, just because YOU haven't done it, or heard of it done, doesn't mean it hasn't been. please learn the facts before you try to bash anything.

[tmajik86]

^^^

Oh yes, i forgot. Mr know it all has been there and done everything. Anywho, i garuntee you didnt make no 285ft lbs on a 75 shot with just i/h/e. And on those 600+ ft lb hondas youve seen had a different tranny than stock. most of gm's stock trans. can handle that and then some...
Why do you persist in trying to show me that honda motors are better than gm's, or any other domestic motor. A cyclinder head is a cyclinder head wether its a b16 or an ls1, so if thats the case why are honda motors "better" than any other engine out there ? You might say they last longer, but obviously its because they make no power...

[mikesrex]

man come on mike, you're being real biased right now.
You don't do that about any of ther other FI cars such as the sti, gti, etc. You did bang the srt though. But i completely agree with you about building older cars, but don't knock the cobalt until you drive a built one.

the STI/GTI/other cars you mentioned are a lot better than the SRT4 and the Cobalt.

[mikesrex]

To mikesrex,
I got a 4 door civic cause at the time it was the only thing i could afford and i just needed a car quick so i made a decision i regret. Im into racing but all i had was my honda which is just a piece of shit honestly. The quality of this car is extremely bad. Its already having trans problem, i cant believe it cant hold the 90whp it makes. There nothing good about this car. Now the cobalt on the other hand makes more power, has a better interior IMO, and looks better. I was reading a gm high performance mag and with i/h/e and a 75 shot, a 03 cavalier with an ecotec motor similiar to a cobalt's dyno'ed 200hp and 285torque. All on stock motor and powertrain. No other import 4 cyclinder can make that much power with the above formentioned mods much less handle the power with all the stock equipment. 285ft lb of torque to the wheels is only like 100 ft lbs less than most honda drag cars, now thats just pathetic...

The whole thing is that your Honda isn't a racecar. If you dog it out all the time, it will break. I have no problems whatsoever with my 2004 civic EX. My only gripe is that it's slow. I didn't buy it to have a fast car, though.

You go ahead and get an ecotec, I/H/E, and a 75 shot. Let me know when you bring it to HRP to race. I'll be sure to bring a Honda with a bone stock motor plus a 75 shot waiting to lay down the law.

[tmajik86]

The whole thing is that your Honda isn't a racecar. If you dog it out all the time, it will break. I have no problems whatsoever with my 2004 civic EX. My only gripe is that it's slow. I didn't buy it to have a fast car, though.

You go ahead and get an ecotec, I/H/E, and a 75 shot. Let me know when you bring it to HRP to race. I'll be sure to bring a Honda with a bone stock motor plus a 75 shot waiting to lay down the law.

I dont just understand why you think this bone stock honda your gonna bring will beat a car with a bigger displacement that already has you beat in both hp and torque. Its like you've already coming to the game with 2 strikes against you. We could go all day on the subject of which car makes more power, is more reliable and so on. Its just all personal preference IMO...

[SecretAgent]

I dont just understand why you think this bone stock honda your gonna bring will beat a car with a bigger displacement that already has you beat in both hp and torque. Its like you've already coming to the game with 2 strikes against you. We could go all day on the subject of which car makes more power, is more reliable and so on. Its just all personal preference IMO...

how about you stop talking the car up so much until YOU actually own one, and do the mods you are talking about. until then, you're just talking out of your ass. put up or shut up man, we'll be ready to run whenever you are.

[SecretAgent]

^^^

A cyclinder head is a cyclinder head wether its a b16 or an ls1


that quote alone tells me you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. oh, and btw, it's spelled 'cylinder.'

[mikesrex]

I dont just understand why you think this bone stock honda your gonna bring will beat a car with a bigger displacement that already has you beat in both hp and torque. Its like you've already coming to the game with 2 strikes against you. We could go all day on the subject of which car makes more power, is more reliable and so on. Its just all personal preference IMO...

i could care less how much displacement something has. i could care less how much power it puts down on a dyno. i could care less about pretty much anything.

you go get your ecotec and nitrous and I'll run my honda with a stock motor and nitrous. Then we'll see who wins in a real race with real cars at a real racetrack.

[GTI337]

cavalier is not crappy, at least not after 2003 and as long as you took care of it


the latest Cavalier and the Past cavaliers have all been poor in crash tests..at every angle.. not to mention its a POS inside and out.. BUT..if i owned one id probably defend it too.. :-/

[super cirrus]

To mikesrex,
Now the cobalt on the other hand makes more power, has a better interior IMO, and looks better. I was reading a gm high performance mag and with i/h/e and a 75 shot, a 03 cavalier with an ecotec motor similiar to a cobalt's dyno'ed 200hp and 285torque. All on stock motor and powertrain. No other import 4 cyclinder can make that much power with the above formentioned mods much less handle the power with all the stock equipment. 285ft lb of torque to the wheels is only like 100 ft lbs less than most honda drag cars, now thats just pathetic...

I think there is a thread somewhere on this site about an rsx with I/H/E making 200+ whp, without nitrous...Oh yeah, the s2000 makes around 200 whp stock too I think...

[BLooney1.8t]

^^^
You might say they last longer, but obviously its because they make no power...

:thumb:

[tmajik86]

how about you stop talking the car up so much until YOU actually own one, and do the mods you are talking about. until then, you're just talking out of your ass. put up or shut up man, we'll be ready to run whenever you are.

Dont worry, im gonna get one.just trying to pay off some more on the piece i have now. Lets make this interesting, im willin' to put some cash down, 250 sound good? ill keep u posted when i get it...

[Sissycivic]

the latest Cavalier and the Past cavaliers have all been poor in crash tests..at every angle.. not to mention its a POS inside and out.. BUT..if i owned one id probably defend it too.. :-/
i have to partially agree, the cavalier didn't look all that bad and they ran pretty decent and reliable, but the interiors where super cheesy

[mikesrex]

all the people that are talking shit about this, do yall have modded cars??

I have a 92 civic CX with a B16A. It's all motor. What do you have?

[JDM98Ferio]

:kekegay: K-series eg hatch here...

[WrecksHurt!]

my bet's on mike, haha

[the Asshats]

Dude, you do realize it's a "domestic"... You are comparing it to other IMPORT 4 cylinders.. gg buddy.


$500 that mikesrex stomps a hole in the cavy



ugh

-LowNSlowNeon-

[Cav_man2004]

dear god i wish everyone here would just smash their heads into a brick wall. nobody around here is a car enthusiast anymore......how bout this. shut the fuck up. its a freaking economy car, so are your stupid hondas. oh! and hey, guess what? THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WILL HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION THAN YOU. get over yourselves, pull you head out of your freaking ass

[mikesrex]

dear god i wish everyone here would just smash their heads into a brick wall. nobody around here is a car enthusiast anymore......how bout this. shut the fuck up. its a freaking economy car, so are your stupid hondas. oh! and hey, guess what? THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WILL HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION THAN YOU. get over yourselves, pull you head out of your freaking ass
nah dude. the Cobalt is being hyped. Cars like the Cobalt and SRT4 are hyped from the factory. These are totally different than the Hondas people like myself make "somewhat" faster than stock.

[SecretAgent]

dear god i wish everyone here would just smash their heads into a brick wall. nobody around here is a car enthusiast anymore......how bout this. shut the fuck up. its a freaking economy car, so are your stupid hondas. oh! and hey, guess what? THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WILL HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION THAN YOU. get over yourselves, pull you head out of your freaking ass


once again, please explain to me how my honda integra type r is an economy car. i'm dying to know the answer.

[Cav_man2004]

once again, please explain to me how my honda integra type r is an economy car. i'm dying to know the answer.

because it has 4 cylinders, is FWD and gets near, if not more, than 30 miles to the gallon. the transmission and drivetrain are economy built, because quite simply a front wheel drive vehicle is cheaper to make than a rear wheel. it makes less than 200 horses from the factory, and anything less than 200 stock is not something i would want to race. im not someone who runs around saying "theres no replacement for displacement" or "all 4 bangers suck balls and are slow", but seriously its not made to be a race car. do you really think that people sat in a board room with each other and said "hey, you know what we should do? make a RACECAR out of an ECONOMY vehicle. itll be great, and all we have to do is tweak some things in the engine and suspension. it will never hold up to supras, corvettes, M3s, skylines, ferraris, porches, or lambos, but it will beat other 4 cylinder front wheel drive cars!" your car was built to save honda money, just as the cobalt is built to save GM money. thats the way the world works. now go ahead, put some money into your integra, make it fast as shit. i encourage you, fully. i like to see cars that are tuned and tweaked to take out the aforementioned "faster" vehicles. thats why we are on this website. but until you do, your car is an econobox.

[Cav_man2004]

nah dude. the Cobalt is being hyped. Cars like the Cobalt and SRT4 are hyped from the factory. These are totally different than the Hondas people like myself make "somewhat" faster than stock.

i really dont want to argue with you about it cause i know your just going to bite back, but i can tell you that with an i/e/h and a 75 shot you would be pushing about 230+ on the Eco. ok now notice i NEVER said it would "beat" you or whatever, im just clarifying the facts. also in my experience i believe the Eco could take much more stress than the B16.


go ahead, say what you will, but remember id still like to be mature about this. everyones entitled to their opinion

[WrecksHurt!]

because it has 4 cylinders, is FWD and gets near, if not more, than 30 miles to the gallon. the transmission and drivetrain are economy built, because quite simply a front wheel drive vehicle is cheaper to make than a rear wheel. it makes less than 200 horses from the factory, and anything less than 200 stock is not something i would want to race. im not someone who runs around saying "theres no replacement for displacement" or "all 4 bangers suck balls and are slow", but seriously its not made to be a race car. do you really think that people sat in a board room with each other and said "hey, you know what we should do? make a RACECAR out of an ECONOMY vehicle. itll be great, and all we have to do is tweak some things in the engine and suspension. it will never hold up to supras, corvettes, M3s, skylines, ferraris, porches, or lambos, but it will beat other 4 cylinder front wheel drive cars!" your car was built to save honda money, just as the cobalt is built to save GM money. thats the way the world works. now go ahead, put some money into your integra, make it fast as shit. i encourage you, fully. i like to see cars that are tuned and tweaked to take out the aforementioned "faster" vehicles. thats why we are on this website. but until you do, your car is an econobox.
haha that's a joke right, i want a type r economy vehicle.haha :stfu:

[SecretAgent]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

1. I get 10-16mpg in VTEC if i'm lucky. low 20's out of it.

2. the car makes 210hp from the factory. with small bolt on's i'm near 200whp.

3. it has a 4.785 final drive, and only 1 overdrive gear, causing the car to spin 4500rpms at 70mph. how's that economical?

4. actually, yes, the Integra type R was intended to be a race car. that's why it has recaro seats, a suspension too stiff for daily driving, ZR rated low profile tires, a stiffened chassis, 8500rpm redline, cross ratio transmission, no ac, limited slip differential, etc etc etc.

5. if my car was built to save honda money, why did they only make 10k a year? why were they limited edition integras that were completely different from the other integra models?? why would they completely change the chassis of a car to save money and in turn make the car much less economical to own and buy?

6. oh and my car outhandles 99.8% of RWD and AWD vehicles out there. bone stock the ITR posted higher slalom speeds than the Ferrari 355, and every other car ever tested up to 1998. You find me another car, even double the price of the ITR that does .91 lateral G on a skidpad. find me one the same price new, stock and rear wheel drive, and i'll give you 20 bucks. one doesn't exist.
in short, you make no sense.

[SecretAgent]

i really dont want to argue with you about it cause i know your just going to bite back, but i can tell you that with an i/e/h and a 75 shot you would be pushing about 230+ on the Eco. ok now notice i NEVER said it would "beat" you or whatever, im just clarifying the facts. also in my experience i believe the Eco could take much more stress than the B16.


go ahead, say what you will, but remember id still like to be mature about this. everyones entitled to their opinion


lmao, with just intake and exhaust, with the factory header, i'm making only 30whp less than the nitrous powered eco. lmao!

[rage]

lol @ econo itr

[the Asshats]

because it has 4 cylinders, is FWD and gets near, if not more, than 30 miles to the gallon. the transmission and drivetrain are economy built, because quite simply a front wheel drive vehicle is cheaper to make than a rear wheel. it makes less than 200 horses from the factory, and anything less than 200 stock is not something i would want to race. im not someone who runs around saying "theres no replacement for displacement" or "all 4 bangers suck balls and are slow", but seriously its not made to be a race car. do you really think that people sat in a board room with each other and said "hey, you know what we should do? make a RACECAR out of an ECONOMY vehicle. itll be great, and all we have to do is tweak some things in the engine and suspension. it will never hold up to supras, corvettes, M3s, skylines, ferraris, porches, or lambos, but it will beat other 4 cylinder front wheel drive cars!" your car was built to save honda money, just as the cobalt is built to save GM money. thats the way the world works. now go ahead, put some money into your integra, make it fast as shit. i encourage you, fully. i like to see cars that are tuned and tweaked to take out the aforementioned "faster" vehicles. thats why we are on this website. but until you do, your car is an econobox.

4 cylinder - check

fwd - check

30mpg - check (actually the sticker says 31 - I think they are both BS cause I am never off the boost)

less than 200 horses from the factory - :eek3: not checked

My car is an econo-srt-4 :thumb:

PS: SecretAgent - just admit it... no car can compare to the cobalt... :yeahno:

[SecretAgent]

4 cylinder - check

fwd - check

30mpg - check (actually the sticker says 31 - I think they are both BS cause I am never off the boost)

less than 200 horses from the factory - :eek3: not checked

My car is an econo-srt-4 :thumb:

PS: SecretAgent - just admit it... no car can compare to the cobalt... :yeahno:


yeah, ur right, the cobalt is the bestest car evarz. ecotec fo life y0!!

[dantheman]

secretagent, he has a point. just because they created a race version of it doesnt mean that the integra (not type R) isnt designed to be a more luxurious economy car.

look at the mustang. the V6 (which they sell the most of) is an economy sports car. the V6 is not very impressive because it was designed to appeal to the masses and sell like hotcakes for 16k dollars new.

they make a peppier version the GT which still is under 25k dollars (pre 05) gets in the mid 20's on mileage but still is rather economical sports car. then the special trims, the bullet, mach 1 still for reasonable prices.

but they have the cobra 35k dollars, 12's stock, badass IRS handling, 6speed, supercharged "race" version of the mustang or the cobra R both come straight from ford. the cobra R had no ac, no radio, no backseat, very loud side exhaust, wide rims and tires, all the sound deadener removed and was a race car you could buy from ford. just because they have special models doesnt mean that the V6 mustang ISNT an economy car. same with the integra. its roots are in economy, but that doesnt mean the type R is an economy car.

[SecretAgent]

secretagent, he has a point. just because they created a race version of it doesnt mean that the integra (not type R) isnt designed to be a more luxurious economy car.

its roots are in economy, but that doesnt mean the type R is an economy car.

exactly, he said MY CAR was an economy car. which it isn't. far fucking from it. you wouldn't call a cobra an economy car, even tho one mustang model is made for economy would you? why would it be any different with the type r? just because the base model integra is based on an economy car (the civic) doesn't make the type r an economy car. oh and btw, insurance companies and honda alike consider the integra a performance vehicle.

[Trader_Slick]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
6. oh and my car outhandles 99.8% of RWD and AWD vehicles out there. bone stock the ITR posted higher slalom speeds than the Ferrari 355, and every other car ever tested up to 1998. You find me another car, even double the price of the ITR that does .91 lateral G on a skidpad. find me one the same price new, stock and rear wheel drive, and i'll give you 20 bucks. one doesn't exist.
in short, you make no sense.

The 1989-1992 1LE Third Gen F-bodies pull .90+ in stock trim with a slalom speed of 63.3 mph in RS trim. I believe the 1LE IROC's and TA's had a higher mph but i can't find solid data on them. In 1989 you could get one for about 17 to 18K but i'm lazy to factor in inflation to give you "2005" dollars. All this research makes me miss my iroc now :wompwomp:.

[dantheman]

oh and btw, insurance companies and honda alike consider the integra a performance vehicle.

mainly due to it being a 2 door. hell my 86 CRX DX with 76 hp cost more on insurance being a sports car than my 95 GST did.

but yes i agree with you the type R is NOT an econo car. it was purpose built to race.

[SecretAgent]

The 1989-1992 1LE Third Gen F-bodies pull .90+ in stock trim with a slalom speed of 63.3 mph in RS trim. I believe the 1LE IROC's and TA's had a higher mph but i can't find solid data on them. In 1989 you could get one for about 17 to 18K but i'm lazy to factor in inflation to give you "2005" dollars. All this research makes me miss my iroc now :wompwomp:.


the ITR's slalom speed was over 71mph. but that's a bad ass skidpad number. never knew they were rated that high.

[Dorian]

Almost in archives guys...

[Trader_Slick]

the ITR's slalom speed was over 71mph. but that's a bad ass skidpad number. never knew they were rated that high.

.90 is low from what i've seen, i've seen as high as a .95 but usually the average is around a .92. I even in 1LE trim (GM's RPO code for their showroom stock racing program) i don't think they would touch a 71 mph slalom speed due to the weight. BTW have you taken your ITR out to TWS or any AutoX events yet?

[mikesrex]

i really dont want to argue with you about it cause i know your just going to bite back, but i can tell you that with an i/e/h and a 75 shot you would be pushing about 230+ on the Eco. ok now notice i NEVER said it would "beat" you or whatever, im just clarifying the facts. also in my experience i believe the Eco could take much more stress than the B16.

You won't get anywhere with this. How many B16's have you had? How many Ecotecs have you had? I take that you've had plenty of each and have pushed the limits as to how much power each could make until they blow up?

It took GM spending millions of dollars to be able to build faster ecotec drag cars than the Hondas that 2 dudes put together in their garage.

[SecretAgent]

.90 is low from what i've seen, i've seen as high as a .95 but usually the average is around a .92. I even in 1LE trim (GM's RPO code for theIR showroom stock racing program) i don't think they would touch a 71 mph slalom speed due to the weight. BTW have you taken your ITR out to TWS or any AutoX events yet?


not yet, waiting on new tires. my poor RE-01's are on their last leg and are starting to give me understeer at the limit. i'll be ordering some new tires soon, and then i'll make my way out there. i need to test out the new coilovers we have, i can't reach their limit on the street, and aren't gonna try. according to GTECH i was doing .91 G stock, and now i can hit 1.3 G before the tires break loose.

[Trader_Slick]

not yet, waiting on new tires. my poor RE-01's are on their last leg and are starting to give me understeer at the limit. i'll be ordering some new tires soon, and then i'll make my way out there. i need to test out the new coilovers we have, i can't reach their limit on the street, and aren't gonna try. according to GTECH i was doing .91 G stock, and now i can hit 1.3 G before the tires break loose.

Very nice numbers. I was planning on taking my IROC out to GGP when i got all its problems ironed out, but the thieves got to it first. I might bring my TA out there one day once i get the new engine in and a little suspension work done.

[HangNail]

because it has 4 cylinders, is FWD and gets near, if not more, than 30 miles to the gallon. the transmission and drivetrain are economy built, because quite simply a front wheel drive vehicle is cheaper to make than a rear wheel. it makes less than 200 horses from the factory, and anything less than 200 stock is not something i would want to race. im not someone who runs around saying "theres no replacement for displacement" or "all 4 bangers suck balls and are slow", but seriously its not made to be a race car. do you really think that people sat in a board room with each other and said "hey, you know what we should do? make a RACECAR out of an ECONOMY vehicle. itll be great, and all we have to do is tweak some things in the engine and suspension. it will never hold up to supras, corvettes, M3s, skylines, ferraris, porches, or lambos, but it will beat other 4 cylinder front wheel drive cars!" your car was built to save honda money, just as the cobalt is built to save GM money. thats the way the world works. now go ahead, put some money into your integra, make it fast as shit. i encourage you, fully. i like to see cars that are tuned and tweaked to take out the aforementioned "faster" vehicles. thats why we are on this website. but until you do, your car is an econobox.
i guess the acura cl/tl is an economy car because its fwd? mini vans are economy cars? gst economy car. gti/vr6 economy cars. taurus economy car.

[-=E36=-]

Almost in archives guys...

:thumb:

[ofay]

Almost in archives guys...
why, why would you do that for this thread

[Dorian]

why, why would you do that for this thread
It's pretty well behaved and a good example of how a good Car Talk thread is supposed to be. It stands for an example. Anyone disagree?

[-=E36=-]

why, why would you do that for this thread

Because its a perfect example of why not to buy a cobalt. And it may save some innocent people from making that mistake.

Ryan

[mikesrex]

I wonder which automaker is next to come out with a "fast" riced out vehicle.

[tmajik86]

So let me get this straight. Granted this is a import site, this domestic is not welcomed, i understand that. But just in the general car talk here, power wise it seems like a better buy to get a cobalt which they have overhyped a little i agree. Anywho, the car makes 140hp, and 155ft lb of torque. thats about 13-15 hp more and approximately 40 more ft lbs than a honda civic ex. Now that being said, which is the better buy ? If you want a decent daily driver with some umphh still, the cobalt seems to be the better buy ? Am i just not seeing it from the point of view yall are or what ?

[mikesrex]

So let me get this straight. Granted this is a import site, this domestic is not welcomed, i understand that. But just in the general car talk here, power wise it seems like a better buy to get a cobalt which they have overhyped a little i agree. Anywho, the car makes 140hp, and 155ft lb of torque. thats about 13-15 hp more and approximately 40 more ft lbs than a honda civic ex. Now that being said, which is the better buy ? If you want a decent daily driver with some umphh still, the cobalt seems to be the better buy ? Am i just not seeing it from the point of view yall are or what ?
You have a very twisted point of view. You base your stance on what you read on the internet and in magazines, and also from your experience driving a stock Civic Sedan around. Most of us base our stances on years of actually building and driving cars, also helping our friends build and drive cars.

btw I wouldn't buy a brand new car to race/rice. It's stupid to buy a brand new car to tear up, unless you have the money to waste.

[-=E36=-]

So let me get this straight. Granted this is a import site, this domestic is not welcomed, i understand that. But just in the general car talk here, power wise it seems like a better buy to get a cobalt which they have overhyped a little i agree. Anywho, the car makes 140hp, and 155ft lb of torque. thats about 13-15 hp more and approximately 40 more ft lbs than a honda civic ex. Now that being said, which is the better buy ? If you want a decent daily driver with some umphh still, the cobalt seems to be the better buy ? Am i just not seeing it from the point of view yall are or what ?

First off this site has a ton of domestic owners. Its very far from being bias in that way.

I just want you to open your eyes. I agree that if there were only 2 things that a car should have, and they were hp and torque the Cobalt would win here against an underpowered opponent. The problem is that there are a lot more than those 2 factors and the Cobalt wont have the quality, integrity, reliabilty, gas mileage, or handling characteristics that a Honda does. Not to mention that it looks like an updated Cavalier. One of the ugliest car avaiable today.

Ryan

[ofay]

Because its a perfect example of why not to buy a cobalt. And it may save some innocent people from making that mistake.

Ryan
ill allow it

[Sissycivic]

i have a question for you all is the reason you say this car isn't going to be reliable is becuase its a GM product. we see vehicle in our shop and the only problem we get with cavaliers is the oil gets black and needs to be changed, there are never any problems with the ecotechs, so i don't see how its any less reliable, i respect honda completely but they are very overhyped as well. i mean thats the only reason i bought my 98 EX was because of all the praise people gave about them on saving gas and reliability, and so far the reliability isn't too bad, i have had to replace some stuff but nothing major, but the gas mileage i dont notice much difference from our old cavalier, i get about 28 average with mixed driving out of my honda now, and i got in that old cav. i totally agree about the honda looking much better but i dont not agree on honda being so much more reliable and with better gas mileage, and i hope nobody is stating that all GM cars get shitty gas mileage, cuz our vette has 400hp and you can get over 20mpg.

[yourmom25]

So let me get this straight. Granted this is a import site, this domestic is not welcomed, i understand that. But just in the general car talk here, power wise it seems like a better buy to get a cobalt which they have overhyped a little i agree. Anywho, the car makes 140hp, and 155ft lb of torque. thats about 13-15 hp more and approximately 40 more ft lbs than a honda civic ex. Now that being said, which is the better buy ? If you want a decent daily driver with some umphh still, the cobalt seems to be the better buy ? Am i just not seeing it from the point of view yall are or what ?
you need to stop looking at numbers. a car that makes a lot of power and torque over a small range of rpm will lose to a car that makes half that power and torque in a wide range of rpm. i dont know what the torque curve looks like for the cobalt and it may very well be much faster than a civic ex. but the point is, only n00bs look at numbers.

that and a "good buy" for a daily driver doesnt just mean looking at the numbers. a daily driver has to be a car you can sit in traffic in and not be pissed. esp in houston, if you're sitting in a really fast car that hurts your back and makes you uncomfortable, then that's not a daily driver.

you're yelling at everyone for hating on domestics here when you won't open your eyes. GM may very well make fast cars but no one in the world rates them as highly as toyota or honda. even hyundai has made a turnaround. domestics need to take that as their cue to look beyond performance.

oh and there is a replacement for displacement. it's called technology and forced induction.

[super cirrus]

oh and there is a replacement for displacement. it's called technology and forced induction.

But if you apply that same technology/forced induction to a 2 liter engine and a 5 liter engine, which is more likely to make more power?

[crxtc_vtec]

NOTE: Nobody buy the stupid cobalt!!!!! :thumb:

[tmajik86]

Well, ive only been driving a few years now, and ive been building my current car and another car i used to have. I have a lil experience in the area, but i base most of my comments because i have driven both in normal houston conditions and i have driven both in a more spirited way. I do like the extra power wether its to pass or merge or get on the freeway or what not, my honda usually has to get the rpm's up to do such manuevers which in turn kinda kills the gas mileage. I mean, yall can hate on me all day for wanting the car. I honestly see no problem with it, it seems most of yall have bad experience or heresay about the past cavalier. These 2 cars are so completely different. The guy who said gm isnt as respectable as toyota or honda, i dont really have a comment towards that, but what i do know and have complete confidence is in GM's powertrain. I've seen there parts hold up to some brutal power and abuse, so although there quality and overall fit and finish might not be there, they got the confidence of buyers like me, that you'll be satisfied with the power you get because chevy has a known reputation for building power into there cars. I dunno if that makes much sense to you guys, but to me, your daily driver shouldnt have problems gettin on the freeway, or passin people who are driving normally.

[dantheman]

GM may make a strong drivetrain, but the rest of the car will be falling apart on you. that doesnt mean hondas drivetrains arent strong enough to handle the car they were designed for because they are and will last forever with proper ontime maintence

this being said i would still take an Integra over a Cobalt, a Civic too probably but i really dont care for the looks of the new ones. Cobalt is still cavalier quality.with atleast 4 of my friends buying cavi's brand new, cause they were 2-4k cheaper than a similarly equipped Civic, and having them be recalled as lemons for different reasons (one being the transmission replaced 5 times in a year and this was a communter no racing, one the electrical system was shit in, one the motor spun a rod bearing 4 times in a year, and the other had something wrong with the front suspension i cant remember exactly). but they all got their money back from the dealerships (different ones in different cities) and all bought civics or accords which they are still driving and have over 100k miles on with NO problems. they all have stated they will never again own a GM.

if you ask someone on the street which car will be more reliable and last longer while also giving you great MPG a cavalier/sunfire or a civic/integra i guarantee you will see atleast if not more than 90% will say civ/teg because of personal experience with either cars.

btw which cars are generally known to run 250-300k miles hondas and toyotas or gm and fords? i know my friends camry had 251k miles when some guy smashed it and it just got serviced, the service manager at the toyota place said they havent seen a car with that many miles look so good inside and out come through there ever and my friend took horrible care of that car. oil changes every 5-10k miles tranny oil got changed once at 215k miles brakes run to shit he basically gave it hell and it loved him for it.

my point really is just that the cobalt may be a decent DD, but in terms of longterm reliability it wont beat a honda.

[aznhtownboi]

^^ you mean toyota/honda

[mpitre44]

If the cavalier is such a bad vehicle, why has it been around since the 70's and is still one of the leading cars sold? Apparently something about it is right. So quit saying, its still a cavalier. As far as i'm concerned a 12 second civic is still a civic.

Thats just as everyone knows the previous body mustang gt was a piece of crap, but none says, its still a mustang. Thats the most ridicolous thing to say about a car.

And Toyota partnered with GM on many of the vehicles and products used by both companies so there is no excuse there. Which is also part of the bases of how ecotec was developed.

GM, overall is very very good, with most everything they make. For someone to judge and say its made by GM, wether you like it or not is a biased statment. Look at the car for what it is and what it offers.

The cobalt offers the power tuners want for a little less. And don't give me crap about the suspension, because 9 out of 10, someones going to bolt on aftermarket suspension just as they do with civics, integras, protoges, neons, and any other sport compact vehicle.

[mpitre44]

It took GM spending millions of dollars to be able to build faster ecotec drag cars than the Hondas that 2 dudes put together in their garage.

That just goes to show that gm supports their product.

And the only reason that honda didn't have to invest as much is because the b series motors have been out much longer than the ecotec motors, and GM stepped it up to compete, which I think was well worth it considering how many nhra sport compact medals gm has brought home.

[Cav_man2004]

And Toyota partnered with GM on many of the vehicles and products used by both companies so there is no excuse there. Which is also part of the bases of how ecotec was developed.


Toyota Cavalier

[mikesrex]

That just goes to show that gm supports their product.

And the only reason that honda didn't have to invest as much is because the b series motors have been out much longer than the ecotec motors, and GM stepped it up to compete, which I think was well worth it considering how many nhra sport compact medals gm has brought home.

when has Honda sponsored drag racing teams?

[Cav_man2004]

when has Honda sponsored drag racing teams?

are you serious?

[mikesrex]

are you serious?
when?

[SecretAgent]

when?


never. in fact, there is no honda factory team in ANY sort of american racing.

[Cav_man2004]

never. in fact, there is no honda factory team in ANY sort of american racing.

thats a fat load right there, ive seen honda sponsored drag cars at california speedway

[blackrsx]

thats a fat load right there, ive seen honda sponsored drag cars at california speedway

maybe you saw a "powered by honda" sticker :roflmao:

[Cav_man2004]

maybe you saw a "powered by honda" sticker :roflmao:


yeah thats it you caught me :eyesjack:

[mikesrex]

thats a fat load right there, ive seen honda sponsored drag cars at california speedway
Donnell is right. There has never been a Honda factory team in any sort of American drag racing.

GM is dumping megabucks into their drag racing program to be able to hype up the ecotec.

Let's see one of you put your money where your mouth is and build an ecotec to line up against our hondas.

[blackrsx]

yeah thats it you caught me :eyesjack:

well then prove me wrong man, I mean no hard feelings, but Honda has not sponsored any drag teams

[SecretAgent]

not only drag teams, but any form of racing. there is ZERO factory support from honda in the united states. the realtime acura guys used to be sponsored by a group of honda R&D engineers, but they did so with their own money, not Honda's.

[Xb2002]

I was very impressed with the ecotec engine when it came out in the Ion. I think that gm set a new speed record on the salt flats with it. There are alot of performance parts available for the engine now. It would be funny to see a cavalier pwning!!
http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2002/news/images/ecotec-1.jpg
http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2002/news/013001c.html

[Cav_man2004]

I was very impressed with the ecotec engine when it came out in the Ion. I think that gm set a new speed record on the salt flats with it. There are alot of performance parts available for the engine now. It would be funny to see a cavalier pwning!!
http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2002/news/images/ecotec-1.jpg
http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2002/news/013001c.html

#1. Nelson Hoyos has driven this cav for over a year and taken first in it numerous times

#2. this cav is old news, they already have a Cobalt that is faster than it

[mpitre44]

when has Honda sponsored drag racing teams?
just recently here in the states, but for the longest in japan. Listened to them talk about it on car and driver a few days ago.

[SecretAgent]

just recently here in the states, but for the longest in japan. Listened to them talk about it on car and driver a few days ago.


negative. the only factory honda team is in formula 1 and the JGTC 500 class. but both of those cars run under the mugen name.

[mpitre44]

negative. the only factory honda team is in formula 1 and the JGTC 500 class. but both of those cars run under the mugen name.
mugen is no longer the offical sponser. that changed as well.

[-=E36=-]

mugen is no longer the offical sponser. that changed as well.

Mugen isnt a sponsor? Your right they arent a sponsor in the states but they damn well are in Japan.

Ryan

[Dorian]

Donnell is right. There has never been a Honda factory team in any sort of American drag racing.

GM is dumping megabucks into their drag racing program to be able to hype up the ecotec.

Let's see one of you put your money where your mouth is and build an ecotec to line up against our hondas.
And no response....

[mpitre44]

And no response....
I would like to, but i'm trying to leave fwd class.

[t0t4lly5up3r]

But it makes sense that there is no honda sponsored cars in american drag racing. Honda is a rather responsible company (mugen is now m-tec) when it comes to corporate image, so I would imagine this is why this is. American companies, however, have no problem getting involved in american racing; and drag racing is one of the more prominent racing venues in america.

clearly the ecotec isn't a bad engine. it may not be as used as the allmighty b series or the new k, but it doesn't seem to be bad by any standard. At least gm is trying to step up their game (although it's probably a bit late).

I don't think it can be said that the cobalt (SS) is a great car, but it is a good car. I read a review of someone who actually knows what he's talking about, and he was convinced that it's better than he could have expected. This isn't saying it's stupendous, but more like a 7.5/10.

Top FF cars:
"1st. - Mazdaspeed Protege
2nd. - Acura Integra Type R
3rd. - Mazda MP3 Protege
4th. - Chevrolet Cobalt SS"

the guy's personal list, but i respect it.

[Autoxhx]

never. in fact, there is no honda factory team in ANY sort of american racing.


Have you heard of IRL, or Indy car? There is a little race coming up in the near future that will have more than a few Hondas in it.

And in F1 there is the BAR Honda team. (Button and Sato are the drivers)

[mpitre44]

American companies, however, have no problem getting involved in american racing; and drag racing is one of the more prominent racing venues in america.

clearly the ecotec isn't a bad engine. it may not be as used as the allmighty b series or the new k, but it doesn't seem to be bad by any standard. At least gm is trying to step up their game (although it's probably a bit late).

I agree 100%

[SecretAgent]

Have you heard of IRL, or Indy car? There is a little race coming up in the near future that will have more than a few Hondas in it.

And in F1 there is the BAR Honda team. (Button and Sato are the drivers)


1. IRL and what used to be CART, did not have a factory Honda team. They had honda sponsored cars with honda engines, but they were NOT a factory backed team.

2. F1 and the FIA are NOT an american racing league.

3. actually, M-TEC isn't what i was talking about. I was speaking of the Takata Dome NSX, which used to be the Castrol Mugen NSX. and the ARTA NSX, those are the factory honda teams now. M-TEC is the Mugen factory team.

[t0t4lly5up3r]

3. actually, M-TEC isn't what i was talking about. I was speaking of the Takata Dome NSX, which used to be the Castrol Mugen NSX. and the ARTA NSX, those are the factory honda teams now. M-TEC is the Mugen factory team.

Are they actually considered Honda Sponsored Cars? eh. I guess they are because the way it works is that Honda/Toyota/Nissan delivers identically race prepped cars to the teams who then make their adjustments within regulations, right? But since the tuning is done by the separate teams (i.e. M-TEC, ARTA, Dome) . . . ehhh, i guess you're right, because if i recall the announcers on MotorsTV referred to the different Toyota teams (au cerumo / Denso) as if they were one team.

[SIDEXIT]

i still dont like the car

[SecretAgent]

the takata dome nsx and arta nsx are entered under the name of "team honda racing" they are considered one team, with one crew chief. they just have different primary sponsors. engine maintenance is performed by m-tec, chassis maintenance is performed by dome and arta, respectively.

M-TEC is entered under the name M-TEC, they handle both their own engine and chassis maintenance and has a different crew chief than the factory honda teams.

[tmajik86]

LoL, well the lastest news is my honda just broke down, sprayin oil all over the place when i got home today. you call that reliable, nothings done to this except upgraded stereo. I lost about 3 quarts all over my driveway, only 20k miles, even more reason to get rid of it...

[the Asshats]

LoL, well the lastest news is my honda just broke down, sprayin oil all over the place when i got home today. you call that reliable, nothings done to this except upgraded stereo. I lost about 3 quarts all over my driveway, only 20k miles, even more reason to get rid of it...


How many times have you taken it to the track? I know atleast once... cause you ran against me when I went boom in the SXT..

[tmajik86]

How many times have you taken it to the track? I know atleast once... cause you ran against me when I went boom in the SXT..


Once in june against you, i made 2 passes. And another time in november when i made 3 passes. That wouldnt be the cause of any of my problems. It seems me and this car arent meant to be...

[YesSiR]

LoL, well the lastest news is my honda just broke down, sprayin oil all over the place when i got home today. you call that reliable, nothings done to this except upgraded stereo. I lost about 3 quarts all over my driveway, only 20k miles, even more reason to get rid of it...shit i just did a tally on my B series i put in this past august and i've dumped 19k on it in less than 8 months and i'm not exactly a modest driver.........and i'm sure i'll be well over 25k when a year comes and i haven't had a single problem.....

i had a d series for 3 years and put over 70k on that bitch and never had a problem with it and it wasn't a brand new car when i bought it.

nedless to say...i love honda :thumb:

[Autoxhx]

1. IRL and what used to be CART, did not have a factory Honda team. They had honda sponsored cars with honda engines, but they were NOT a factory backed team.

2. F1 and the FIA are NOT an american racing league.

3. actually, M-TEC isn't what i was talking about. I was speaking of the Takata Dome NSX, which used to be the Castrol Mugen NSX. and the ARTA NSX, those are the factory honda teams now. M-TEC is the Mugen factory team.


1)What is your narrow definition of 'factory backed'? If it does not include Teams using equipment built by, sponsored by, and recieving technical support from a company?
2) Never said it was an American racing league just pointing out that there was a F1 team with Honda in its name, not just Mugen as someone stated.

As to the Cobalt ehh, not my first choice but seems much improved over the Cavy.

[HangNail]

how the hell do you break a stock honda motor??

[mikesrex]

LoL, well the lastest news is my honda just broke down, sprayin oil all over the place when i got home today. you call that reliable, nothings done to this except upgraded stereo. I lost about 3 quarts all over my driveway, only 20k miles, even more reason to get rid of it...

so exactly what happened to your car? I would think the only way you could lose oil like that is if your oil filter or oil fill plug becomes loose.

[SecretAgent]

1)What is your narrow definition of 'factory backed'? If it does not include Teams using equipment built by, sponsored by, and recieving technical support from a company?
2) Never said it was an American racing league just pointing out that there was a F1 team with Honda in its name, not just Mugen as someone stated.

As to the Cobalt ehh, not my first choice but seems much improved over the Cavy.


a factory team is a team who enters a race under the factory's name. a team who's main budget comes from the factory they are racing for. a team where the executives that run the factory, also have control over the team. pretty simple concept, or so i thought.

[SecretAgent]

so exactly what happened to your car? I would think the only way you could lose oil like that is if your oil filter or oil fill plug becomes loose.


JIFFY LUBE MADE MY HONDA UNRELIABLE, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T DO THEIR WORK PROPERLY. DAMN UNRELIABLE HONDA'S!!!!! I'M SELLING IT!!!!!!!!



:eyesjack: :wompwomp:

[dantheman]

JIFFY LUBE MADE MY HONDA UNRELIABLE, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T DO THEIR WORK PROPERLY. DAMN UNRELIABLE HONDA'S!!!!! I'M SELLING IT!!!!!!!!



:eyesjack: :wompwomp:


thats what i was thinking.

[tmajik86]

LoL, i did the oil change myself, but it turns out like the honda filter on there started leaking from the end oppposite of where it screws on at. Its funny that its starting to leak now since the last time i changed the oil was 2800 miles ago, or about 3months. very weird...

[Sissycivic]

any car can be pretty reliable if you maintain it and drive it right, the ones that don't hold are the abused, whether its a GM or a honda, almost any car these days can go well over 200,000 miles.

[Cav_man2004]

:wrd: we just traded in our 98 Vette, it had over 103,000 miles on it and was running just as hard as the day we bought it 6 years ago. its still a great car, but my stepdad works at a dealership so he got a good deal on a GTO

[mikesrex]

:wrd: we just traded in our 98 Vette, it had over 103,000 miles on it and was running just as hard as the day we bought it 6 years ago. its still a great car, but my stepdad works at a dealership so he got a good deal on a GTO
corvette/=ecotec

there is no comparison between the two.

[Cav_man2004]

corvette/=ecotec

there is no comparison between the two.


you/egotistical moron

major comparison between the two

BTW, corvette is a car and an Ecotec is an engine. Had you said LS1 it would be different

[ofay]

someone take this thread out back and shoot it. it just wont die

[mikesrex]

you/egotistical moron

major comparison between the two

BTW, corvette is a car and an Ecotec is an engine. Had you said LS1 it would be different

read between the lines.

You attempt to make a statement concerning how good GM cars are by providing a Corvette as an example. We are not discussing the Corvettes, though. The build quality of a Corvette has no effect whatsoever on the build quality of any of the ecotec-powered cars. No matter how good Corvettes are put together, the ecotec-powered cars are all still POS.

[Cav_man2004]

read between the lines.

You attempt to make a statement concerning how good GM cars are by providing a Corvette as an example. We are not discussing the Corvettes, though. The build quality of a Corvette has no effect whatsoever on the build quality of any of the ecotec-powered cars. No matter how good Corvettes are put together, the ecotec-powered cars are all still POS.

you obviously have no idea how GM works, they reuse parts in all of their cars

whatever im not going to argue with you about it :eyesjack:

honestly this thread does need to die

[tmajik86]

read between the lines.

You attempt to make a statement concerning how good GM cars are by providing a Corvette as an example. We are not discussing the Corvettes, though. The build quality of a Corvette has no effect whatsoever on the build quality of any of the ecotec-powered cars. No matter how good Corvettes are put together, the ecotec-powered cars are all still POS.

If ecotec's or cobalts are pieces of shit, what does that make civics ? Imports arent that great either, all they do is just "try" impress with you the interior to make up for its lack of power, luxury, and other things people would disagree with me on...

[the Asshats]

whatever im not going to argue with you about it


Which is what someone normally says when losing in an arguement.. :)

[tmajik86]

To all who say the cobalt will be a poor performer here is a person who dropped in GM's performance ecotec motor with cams, ported heads, i think new pistons and rods, and upgrade the tranny to a 4T-65 and only runs 10lbs of boost on a otherwise 65% stock ecotec motor. Mid 12's isnt bad, i dont see any hondas doing that only less than half stock parts....

http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2017&highlight=kindle+racing

[mikesrex]

you obviously have no idea how GM works, they reuse parts in all of their cars

list any parts the Corvette shares with any of the ecotec-powered cars.

[mikesrex]

If ecotec's or cobalts are pieces of shit, what does that make civics ? Imports arent that great either, all they do is just "try" impress with you the interior to make up for its lack of power, luxury, and other things people would disagree with me on...

Civics are damned good cars, especially when compared to any of the ecotec-powered cars. I think this discussion has already taken place in this very thread.

Honda didn't make their cars to cater to the ricers.

[tmajik86]

Civics are damned good cars, especially when compared to any of the ecotec-powered cars. I think this discussion has already taken place in this very thread.

Honda didn't make their cars to cater to the ricers.

Why ? What makes them so special, just because its a honda? that doesnt mean anything its just a name. Why do you insist on thinking hondas are the best cars out there, cause thats what your making it seem like !?

[mikesrex]

Why ? What makes them so special, just because its a honda? that doesnt mean anything its just a name. Why do you insist on thinking hondas are the best cars out there, cause thats what your making it seem like !?

you can read the thread and use some common sense to know why I think Hondas are better than the ecotec POS.

I don't think Hondas are the best cars out there. I do, however, think Hondas are very good cars. I'm pretty sure I've owned a much wider variety of cars than you, and can speak from my own experience concerning what cars I think are good in general. There is no absolute "best." It's all about personal preference when we choose why we think something is "good." Your reasons (for why you dislike Honda and praise anything ecotec) are stupid.


enough of this BS. go buy a cobalt and when you are ready to race let me know. Prove to us how much superior the Cobalt is over all Hondas, and how you will crush the Hondas you say suck so much.

[b18Dc2]

:stfu:

[the Asshats]

I really don't mind the cobalt.. it'll be nice for what it is... what is the price on it though? (The SS) like 24?... See... I'd take a SRT over the cobalt.. but if the cobalt was under 20k I'd buy one as a 2nd car..

[ofay]

I really don't mind the cobalt.. it'll be nice for what it is... what is the price on it though? (The SS) like 24?... See... I'd take a SRT over the cobalt.. but if the cobalt was under 20k I'd buy one as a 2nd car..
but its not, so some one shoot this fucking thread and let it die