240sx rear brakes and Master Cylinder Questions

[ADiamond240sx]

Ok, so I know that the q45 brakes work on the 240 (put them on over the weekend) and 300z, but what about other components for the brake system?

What can you use besides the 300z master cylinder as an upgrade? Will the j39, q45, or any other nissan MC give better pedal feel.

What about Brake booster? I love the feel of the j30t breaks, it there a way to use the booster off a j30 on the 240?

REAR BRAKES? I have only heard of 300z brakes being swapped here, what about maxima, q45, j30, altima and others? I would really like to stick with the stock type rear caliper (refering to parking brake), but get a better balance with the q45's up front.

Ideas?

[rage]

i would use a q45 MC. i know the auto 240sx's have a better booster, im not sure of the others. id try the q45 rear brakes first, it would suck if it was too rear biased :eh:

[ADiamond240sx]

i would use a q45 MC. i know the auto 240sx's have a better booster, im not sure of the others. id try the q45 rear brakes first, it would suck if it was too rear biased :eh:

yeah, I agree, but q45 rears use the drum parking brake, I want to avoid this. I figure if I find a slightly larger rear brake setup, like from a maxima or something, it would balance me out and not cause to much rear bias, does q45 MC work on 240?

[Project240]

i dunno much about the differnet types of e-brakes...... but i know on my friend's honda oddesy, the ebrake instantaniously locks up the back wheels no matter how fast your going. I think its bad fuckin ass, cause we just roll down the road and pull the ebrake up randomly and the back wheels lock up so hard, and we don't have to work hard at all pulling up the lever.

[rage]

yeah, I agree, but q45 rears use the drum parking brake, I want to avoid this. I figure if I find a slightly larger rear brake setup, like from a maxima or something, it would balance me out and not cause to much rear bias, does q45 MC work on 240?
ya, the q45 MC works on a 240, you may have to do the abs mod similar to that of using a 300zx MC. why dont you want to use the drum parking brake?

[ADiamond240sx]

ya, the q45 MC works on a 240, you may have to do the abs mod similar to that of using a 300zx MC. why dont you want to use the drum parking brake?

what ABS mods? :dunno: Two lines on the MC on my car and two on the one from the q45 and 300z, right? (my car has ABS).

I don't want the drum setup because it's a pain to install, don't want to have to deal with the fabrication of the e-brake line and stuff of that nature, plus, I want to use the banjo brake lines.

[rage]

sorry i was figuring that your car didnt have abs, theyll bolt right on :thumb:

did you use banjo bolts on the front, aswell?!

[ADiamond240sx]

sorry i was figuring that your car didnt have abs, theyll bolt right on :thumb:

did you use banjo bolts on the front, aswell?!

Yes, with the q45 brakes, it's what they use.

[crzycav]

I don't want the drum setup because it's a pain to install, don't want to have to deal with the fabrication of the e-brake line and stuff of that nature, plus, I want to use the banjo brake lines.

It's not really that much of a pain to hook up the e-brake. Just chop off your 240 e-brake lines, and use u-clamps on the q45 brakes. It's not too hard.

...I wouldn't trust it for drifting, but it'll keep your car from coasting down an incline.

[ADiamond240sx]

It's not really that much of a pain to hook up the e-brake. Just chop off your 240 e-brake lines, and use u-clamps on the q45 brakes. It's not too hard.

...I wouldn't trust it for drifting, but it'll keep your car from coasting down an incline.

but what about mounting the drum hardware, don't you have to basically take the rear end apert to do this. What about the maxima, do it's rear calipers have a drum, and if not will they match up without any mods? Thats really what I want to find, a straight bolt on without having to mod anything.

[al]

It's not really that much of a pain to hook up the e-brake. Just chop off your 240 e-brake lines, and use u-clamps on the q45 brakes. It's not too hard.

...I wouldn't trust it for drifting, but it'll keep your car from coasting down an incline.

You've got the right idea, the u-clamps aren't track worthy and therefore I wouldn't trust it on the street. I used a heavy duty ferrule crimper that basically permanently fuses the two cables together. I'll post pictures of that method later.

but what about mounting the drum hardware, don't you have to basically take the rear end apert to do this. What about the maxima, do it's rear calipers have a drum, and if not will they match up without any mods? Thats really what I want to find, a straight bolt on without having to mod anything.

It's easy, I've done it using 300ZX hardware ... read further ...

Parts needed:
Z32 drumbrake assembly including dust plate
S14 SE or Z32 non-turbo hub (5-lugs)
S14 spindle

Here's the concept behind the Z32 rear brakes. Both S14 and Z32 spindles have 5 holes for bolts. 4 are for the hub, one is for the drumbrake assembly. It's interesting that the S14 spindle has the 5th hole to accomodate nonexistent drumbrake hardware.

Steps for converting the rears for Z32 rears, assuming the spindle has been removed from the vehicle:
1) unbolt the 4-lug hubs off your stock spindle and remove the stock dust plate. Refer to Step 3 to see the bolts that you'll need to unbolt. Hub may be seized onto the spindle, so leave the bolts partially threaded in and use a big f__ing hammer to knock the hub loose.

2) remove the drumbrake shoes off the Z32 spindle

3) unbolt the hubs off the Z32 spindles and remove the dust plate with drum brake hardware. Note the 4 hub bolts and lone drumbrake nut on the Z32 assembly.

4) put Z32 dustplate and drumbrake hardware onto S14 spindle. You will note that the Z32 hubs are slightly different from the S14 hubs. If an S14 hub is used, the drum brake hardware needs to be spaced from the dust shield. They are basically two washers that match the thickness that the Z32 hubs provide.

5) bolt in 5-lug hub from either S14SE or Z32 nonturbo

6) install drumbrake shoes onto completed assembly

7) install Z32 rotors

8) Z32 rear calipers bolt directly onto S14 spindles

Hint, the Z32 rear spindle is significantly lighter since it's made of aluminum. You can use it if you get 300ZX rear height adjustable coilovers, the difference is how the shock bolts to the spindle.

To save money, buy parts from a nonturbo Z. The nonturbo hubs will be the correct size for the S14 axles and using the hubs will save you from needing the drumbrake assembly spacers as pictured above, as well as not requiring rear parts from an S14SE. If using the aluminum spindles, height adjustability is a requirement because the Z32 and S14 have slightly differing shock assembly lengths.

[ADiamond240sx]

You've got the right idea, the u-clamps aren't track worthy and therefore I wouldn't trust it on the street. I used a heavy duty ferrule crimper that basically permanently fuses the two cables together. I'll post pictures of that method later.



It's easy, I've done it using 300ZX hardware ... read further ...

Parts needed:
Z32 drumbrake assembly including dust plate
S14 SE or Z32 non-turbo hub (5-lugs)
S14 spindle

Here's the concept behind the Z32 rear brakes. Both S14 and Z32 spindles have 5 holes for bolts. 4 are for the hub, one is for the drumbrake assembly. It's interesting that the S14 spindle has the 5th hole to accomodate nonexistent drumbrake hardware.

Steps for converting the rears for Z32 rears, assuming the spindle has been removed from the vehicle:
1) unbolt the 4-lug hubs off your stock spindle and remove the stock dust plate. Refer to Step 3 to see the bolts that you'll need to unbolt. Hub may be seized onto the spindle, so leave the bolts partially threaded in and use a big f__ing hammer to knock the hub loose.

2) remove the drumbrake shoes off the Z32 spindle

3) unbolt the hubs off the Z32 spindles and remove the dust plate with drum brake hardware. Note the 4 hub bolts and lone drumbrake nut on the Z32 assembly.

4) put Z32 dustplate and drumbrake hardware onto S14 spindle. You will note that the Z32 hubs are slightly different from the S14 hubs. If an S14 hub is used, the drum brake hardware needs to be spaced from the dust shield. They are basically two washers that match the thickness that the Z32 hubs provide.

5) bolt in 5-lug hub from either S14SE or Z32 nonturbo

6) install drumbrake shoes onto completed assembly

7) install Z32 rotors

8) Z32 rear calipers bolt directly onto S14 spindles

Hint, the Z32 rear spindle is significantly lighter since it's made of aluminum. You can use it if you get 300ZX rear height adjustable coilovers, the difference is how the shock bolts to the spindle.

To save money, buy parts from a nonturbo Z. The nonturbo hubs will be the correct size for the S14 axles and using the hubs will save you from needing the drumbrake assembly spacers as pictured above, as well as not requiring rear parts from an S14SE. If using the aluminum spindles, height adjustability is a requirement because the Z32 and S14 have slightly differing shock assembly lengths.

OK, I have s14 se model, so I don't need to switch the hubs, and yet, this still sounds like alot more work than if I just found some direct bolt on callipers. Thanx for the info though.

[al]

The calipers ARE direct bolt on. They will all bolt onto the S14 hub ... just get the rear calipers, dust plate, and related e-brake hardware from a wrecked Z32 and swap them in. You'd cut your stock ebrake cables and join them to the Z32 cables

[crzycav]

Basically, the e-brake drum assembly is sandwhiched between the hub and upright. You just have to take the hub off, put the e-brake assembly on, and put the hub on.

The tricky thing is separating the e-brake assembly from the z32 hubs because it requires disassembly of the drum(meaning you have to remember which order the parts go in for reassembly)... but don't let that scare you.

I have the e-brake and I stayed 4-lug. I even used the z32 aluminum uprights. If anyone has any questions on anything, I'd be glad to help. :)

[ADiamond240sx]

I don't want to offend anyone but I just don't want to use the drum parking brake setup.

It may be easy, but i want the hardware to be as close to stock as possible and with as little mod and complication for mounting up. It may seem petty, but I just don't want to deal with the drum parking brake. Think I'll go spend a day at the junkyard playing with broken cars and swapping parts around to see if anything else works. Does anyone know what type of brakes the maximas, altimas, g20 use for rears? I think this is where I will start.

[crzycav]

Hey man... no offense taken. I just like to throw down some ideas for other members who may be lurking.

al posted some really good information too.

I don't know much about the brakes of the other cars. But I know that g20's do the z-brake conversion as well. But I'm pretty sure their brakes are smaller than the stock 240.

If you're gonna go with the smaller rear brake upgrades, I suggest you skip the calipers and just upgrade the stock rear rotors and pads.

[al]

I don't want to offend anyone but I just don't want to use the drum parking brake setup.

From a racer's standpoint, the drum brake setup makes more sense because after a few hard laps, you don't have to worry about extemely hot brake components when you engage your parking brake.

I don't know much about the brakes of the other cars. But I know that g20's do the z-brake conversion as well. But I'm pretty sure their brakes are smaller than the stock 240.

Interesting you bring that up, I believe I am the 2nd person to ever put 300ZX brakes on a G20.

[ADiamond240sx]

Interesting you bring that up, I believe I am the 2nd person to ever put 300ZX brakes on a G20.

So are the g20's rears bigger or smaller than the stock 240's?

[al]

If it's any indication of how small the G20 stock brakes were, the stock wheels were 14" :kekegay:

[Matt93SE]

The '86 Z31 turbo was the largest solid rear rotor out there...
http://www.dba.com.au/dba_catalogue_2004/HTML/pdf/Out/Nissan.pdf

It helped on my car, but the brake bias is still WAY to the front with the front Z32s.. like 88% or something.
see the other threads on this for some graphs I posted.

[al]

Matt, with Z32 fronts and rears on the S-chassis cars, a few people are having trouble with the rears locking up prematurely. What master cylinder are you using?

[Matt93SE]

I'm using OE Maxima MC...
15/16" I think.

remember, I'm using stock rear calipers (since the rotor is the same thickness as S13/S14/Maxima/Z31). I just moved it out to cover the 1.5" difference in rotor diameter. my fronts are 4 piston wilwoods. 1.75" pistons, so they're even bigger than the 1.5" in the Z32 calipers.. yet even more front bias.

also, look at the thread on brake pads in the drift forum..
http://www.houston-imports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172764&page=2&pp=20
there's some calculations I did on the 240 and Z setups comparing them with each other using both S14 and Z32 master cylinders.

[ADiamond240sx]

I'm using OE Maxima MC...
15/16" I think.

remember, I'm using stock rear calipers (since the rotor is the same thickness as S13/S14/Maxima/Z31). I just moved it out to cover the 1.5" difference in rotor diameter. my fronts are 4 piston wilwoods. 1.75" pistons, so they're even bigger than the 1.5" in the Z32 calipers.. yet even more front bias.

also, look at the thread on brake pads in the drift forum..
http://www.houston-imports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172764&page=2&pp=20
there's some calculations I did on the 240 and Z setups comparing them with each other using both S14 and Z32 master cylinders.

SO will Maxima rear callipers work on 240s? And if so, what year models?

[Matt93SE]

anything will work but that doesn't mean it will bolt right up like the Z32 front conversion..

look at the links I posted above and look at the rotor sizes and thicknesses.