what kind of injectors do i need

[Carboy247]

im running 99 civic w/ a B16A2,stock internals w/ a drag III kit-(turbonetics turbo T3-T04 trim is about 50 something, but dont know the ar), tial 38mm waste, blitz bov, drag fmic, obd II ecu (stock)aem fuel rail and fpr, apex'i V-AFC, and a walbro 255 intake hp fuel pump.
i do have a p72 and a obdI to obdII jumper already w/ a S200 hondata, but not installed.
i need to get injectors but don't know what size to get. i have a set of RC 850cc injectors but i'm thinking it wont even start and at idle w/ the big of an injector.
also do the injectors have to be low or high impedence-(peak and hold or saturated), would i have to change out my wire harness to obdI and get a resistor box? any help would be appriciated.... almost finished w/ the car.....thanks ppl......:thumb:

[talonturbotsi94]

how much boost are you planning on running?

[mikesrex]

the 850's should do fine

[BluSiBoy]

If I ever went turbo, I think DSM injectors would be just fine, they fit perfect in our engines.

[Carboy247]

If I ever went turbo, I think DSM injectors would be just fine, they fit perfect in our engines.3
getting used dsm injec... are ok?

[JDMhatchback]

i would stick with the 850s because they are newer and you have room to upgrade later on if u decide that u want more power. it depends on your injectors if its p/h or satured. p/h you need a resistor box and saturated you dont. your injectors are probably p/h since the injectors have 880cc's.

[Carboy247]

how much boost are you planning on running?
i have stock internals so i'm thinking maybe 10psi???? any feedback would help...

[talonturbotsi94]

id guess at 550 or 650 injectors. im not exactly a honda guy but 850s seem alil large for a car thats only gonna see 10lbs of boost and is a daily driver

[cypher]

450 - 550 for 10lb. even has room to upgrade if you like.

[Carboy247]

off topic, but would a stock b16a handle 10 psi?

[skr33t_rac3r]

aslong as u get it tuned
with the proper tuning it could even handle more

[Big Turkey]

Get rid of your V-AFC, get some 880cc injectors even though you're not running much boost, go to Jason (st00pid), have him tune it and call it a day. Later on when you feel your car is slow and upgrade your turbo, you will need those injectors. Don't want to do things twice now.

[Carboy247]

Get rid of your V-AFC, get some 880cc injectors even though you're not running much boost, go to Jason (st00pid), have him tune it and call it a day. Later on when you feel your car is slow and upgrade your turbo, you will need those injectors. Don't want to do things twice now.

this Jason guy must be pretty damn good... i've only heard good things about him...i was going to let Marcus Williams-(use to own Apex; 11-sec gold type R, back in 97) tune my car; i'll just have to give Jason a call at autologic......??????

[Big Turkey]

this Jason guy must be pretty damn good... i've only heard good things about him...i was going to let Marcus Williams-(use to own Apex; 11-sec gold type R, back in 97) tune my car; i'll just have to give Jason a call at autologic......??????
He's one of the best, IMO. Shoot him a PM, his name is st00pid. He's a busy guy so give him some time to respond. Tell him that Wally sent you.

[Carboy247]

He's one of the best, IMO. Shoot him a PM, his name is st00pid. He's a busy guy so give him some time to respond. Tell him that Wally sent you.
i've got some 850cc RC injectors but if i install them i'll have to tow my car to a shop to tune them down?

[gtkiller]

im running 99 civic w/ a B16A2,stock internals w/ a drag III kit-(turbonetics turbo T3-T04 trim is about 50 something, but dont know the ar), tial 38mm waste, blitz bov, drag fmic, obd II ecu (stock)aem fuel rail and fpr, apex'i V-AFC, and a walbro 255 intake hp fuel pump.
i do have a p72 and a obdI to obdII jumper already w/ a S200 hondata, but not installed.
i need to get injectors but don't know what size to get. i have a set of RC 850cc injectors but i'm thinking it wont even start and at idle w/ the big of an injector.
also do the injectors have to be low or high impedence-(peak and hold or saturated), would i have to change out my wire harness to obdI and get a resistor box? any help would be appriciated.... almost finished w/ the car.....thanks ppl......:thumb:


This link should help u decide the correct size injector.
www.rceng.com Go to the technical information section.

[Carboy247]

This link should help u decide the correct size injector.
www.rceng.com (http://www.rceng.com/) Go to the technical information section.
thanks the answer all my ?'s:thumb:

[93 hatch]

i think dsm 450cc(blue top) injectors are fine with your set-up and cheap (got mine for $50 shipped).

you can run 10 psi but depends on the turbo you use. a big turbo at low psi can make the same power as a small turbo running at a high psi. its the size of the turbo that makes a diffrence. a sc61 is kinda big. if you use that turbo do 8psi and the bigger the turbo the more lag of course.

[Mochanic]

what kind of BS site is this?
Somebody makes a reply to a question and because a sponsor gets their feelings hurt by the truth the guy replying gets warned and is told he will be banned for 3 days then his replies are removed... :fukingay:

People come here for unbiased opinions, help, and recommendations, not to get their car blown up!

This guy asks how much can a stock b16 handle... what he should have asked was how much can it handle reliably on pump gas! 10psi is max I don't give a $hit who is tuning it!!!

Although Jason (st00pid) still has his panties in a wad over something that he still thinks I did, (which I didn't) I still like the guy, but unless he's tuning more conservativly these days I would not recommend him for tuning. Hopefully he's learned his lesson by now and shoots for max reliability rather than max HP as he did in the past.

If you people can't handle the truth, then why waste your time reading and writing and replying to legitimate posts/questions!!!
There is nothing wrong with stating the truth on this forum, especially if its gonna keep somebodys hard earned ride together, I don't care who likes it or not!!!

BTW, there are other sites out there, people don't have to keep coming back to this one so, let freedom of speech stay, or just turn this one into a moderator/sponsor "statement" site and don't allow anybody else to post.

OK, go ahead and ban me now!

[Silverbeast]

Seems that my posts were removed due to a disagreemnent with someone.

sc61 is too big for a stock b16, 10psi WILL mean broken ringlands eventually.
You should get a saturated 550 injector for 10psi from RC, which will be plenty.
Hondata and DSM injectors are reccomended, see hondata's forum to see why.
Junk the v-afc as it doesnt go with a Hondata.

Saturated are preferred since thats what the stock ecu was designed to control. Peak and hold will work, but you loose some resolution with them and your setup is too small to really need peak and hold.
If a moderator wants to edit, delete, alter my posts again, I would like an explanation via PM please.

[TopSeller]

what kind of BS site is this?
Somebody makes a reply to a question and because a sponsor gets their feelings hurt by the truth the guy replying gets warned and is told he will be banned for 3 days then his replies are removed... :fukingay:

People come here for unbiased opinions, help, and recommendations, not to get their car blown up!

This guy asks how much can a stock b16 handle... what he should have asked was how much can it handle reliably on pump gas! 10psi is max I don't give a $hit who is tuning it!!!

Although Jason (st00pid) still has his panties in a wad over something that he still thinks I did, (which I didn't) I still like the guy, but unless he's tuning more conservativly these days I would not recommend him for tuning. Hopefully he's learned his lesson by now and shoots for max reliability rather than max HP as he did in the past.

If you people can't handle the truth, then why waste your time reading and writing and replying to legitimate posts/questions!!!
There is nothing wrong with stating the truth on this forum, especially if its gonna keep somebodys hard earned ride together, I don't care who likes it or not!!!

BTW, there are other sites out there, people don't have to keep coming back to this one so, let freedom of speech stay, or just turn this one into a moderator/sponsor "statement" site and don't allow anybody else to post.

OK, go ahead and ban me now!

thanks for stating you opinion and not being a pussy

[00EBPsi]

I don't even understand why my reply was deleted. All i said was that my car didn't handle 10psi on a very conservative tune with a sc61 and that 3 out of 4 ringlands broke. My advice to you carboy247 is to search on honda-tech for your answers to these questions. They have been answered a million times by people that have a lot of experience with stock motors on boost, and you won't have to worry about getting stupid answers from anybody. Just search honda-tech. In silverbeast's defense, my car was tuned very very conservatively. If anyone questioning wants to see just how conservative my map was, pm silverbeast.

[mikesrex]

the deleted posts were turning into a flame war. Discuss the specifics of why certain setups may work well and certain setups may not. Please try to keep from flaming each other, though.

[cypher]

thread starter doesnt have a sc61. and if you want to see a stock bottom end b16 w/ a sc61 over 10psi swing by the shop. a stock shortblock can handle over 10psi with the right tuning. and depending on how much you plan on going over the 10 mark debates the size of the injecters to use.

[Mochanic]

thread starter doesnt have a sc61. and if you want to see a stock bottom end b16 w/ a sc61 over 10psi swing by the shop. a stock shortblock can handle over 10psi with the right tuning. and depending on how much you plan on going over the 10 mark debates the size of the injecters to use.

key word here reliably!!!
We once did a test on a stock B16 (full bodied hatch not gutted) to see what it could take boost and HP wise before losing the ring lands.

We used C16 (118 octane)
the results were 331whp at 13 on plain 'ol drag 3 kit with Speed Pro
This was the first time the car went deep 11's also one of the first times st00pid got to drive the car.
We wanted 10's bad so we bumped it up to 16psi which ended up taking the rings lands of 2 pistons out...
We stuck 2 more stock slugs into the motor and tried again. back to 14psi. lasted a few more passes (didnt make it back to the dyno) before the same thing happened.
Oh and as far as the tuner goes... Lawrence Connely (6 sec. twin turbo Z28 owner http://www.conleyracing.com/) was the original tuner, then we got st00pid involved along with the owner who is now a damn good tuner on his own car, so don't even go there!

As for pump gas, I wouldn't even think about anything over 10psi if you want to keep it together! bottom line is don't do it just because one some guy here says he's done it before, and I don't care who's punching the buttons on the laptop!

[cypher]

so your telling me noone can build a 10psi stock block b16 and not blow it up with pump gas?
im just making sure that is what your saying

[Silverbeast]

thread starter doesnt have a sc61. and if you want to see a stock bottom end b16 w/ a sc61 over 10psi swing by the shop. a stock shortblock can handle over 10psi with the right tuning. and depending on how much you plan on going over the 10 mark debates the size of the injecters to use.

The flames were put out due to your whining to a Moderator, but you have to bring up shit again. Stock ringlands, 10psi+ on sc61 will not last long. His lasted 8 months, get off of it.

I told you through PMs that the issue should be left alone, but you feel it necessary to bring the tuning issue back up. Until you tune a car, dont talk about tuning.

Here are his maps...
Low cam fuel:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/Ashweekins/robertlowcamfuel.bmp

Low cam timing:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/Ashweekins/robertlowtiming.bmp

High cam fuel:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/Ashweekins/roberthighcamfuel.bmp

High cam timing:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/Ashweekins/roberthighcamtiming.bmp

Where again was the downfall of the tune?

[cypher]

once again did i state that you where a bad tuner? or did i state that i myself tune cars? nope dont recall that. i stated that we build cars/motor setups that have and still do see well over the 10psi mark on pump gas. ls and b16 shortblocks.

And you getting off topic about a matter that has nothing to do with you is why the posted where removed. not because we where debating this or that.

[Silverbeast]

so your telling me noone can build a 10psi stock block b16 and not blow it up with pump gas?
im just making sure that is what your saying

This depends on the componets used, the builder, and the size of the turbo.

Do you think that 10psi on a PT71 would hold just as well as 10psi on a t3/t4b?

[Silverbeast]

once again did i state that you where a bad tuner? or did i state that i myself tune cars? nope dont recall that. i stated that we build cars/motor setups that have and still do see well over the 10psi mark on pump gas. ls and b16 shortblocks.

And you getting off topic about a matter that has nothing to do with you is why the posted where removed. not because we where debating this or that.

You have continued to imply that it is ALL in the tuning, which it isnt. Component selection makes up a large chunk of the relibility issue.

I asked before it was deleted....all your 10+psi cars run sc61s?

The reason the posts were removed is because you whined. Leave it at that.

[cypher]

You have continued to imply that it is ALL in the tuning, which it isnt. Component selection makes up a large chunk of the relibility issue.

I asked before it was deleted....all your 10+psi cars run sc61s?

The reason the posts were removed is because you whined. Leave it at that.

And once again your posted where removed because you brought up a matter that didnt and still does not involve you.
And no all do not use the sc61 but it sounds like the sc61 hatch should be blowing up soon so ill keep an eye out for that since you didnt tune it.

Next tiem ill be sure you include you in our tuning session or hell ill even pay you to tune our cars since we dont seem to have the right mind set here about how to build or where to send our cars for tuning.

[cypher]

aslong as u get it tuned
with the proper tuning it could even handle more

wow looks like im not alone

[Silverbeast]

And once again your posted where removed because you brought up a matter that didnt and still does not involve you.
And no all do not use the sc61 but it sounds like the sc61 hatch should be blowing up soon so ill keep an eye out for that since you didnt tune it.

Next tiem ill be sure you include you in our tuning session or hell ill even pay you to tune our cars since we dont seem to have the right mind set here about how to build or where to send our cars for tuning.

The posts that were removed wernt because of that. 1 line of 1 post mentioned that some shop in Houston screwed someone...you took it as your shop, sorry. Shoe fits, wear it.

The matter i described does concern me, it was a friend that was dicked over. I'm not naming any names or shops.

I dont want to be associated with your shop, tuning, or anything you do. I wouldnt take a single dollar from you because I frankly dont need your money.

Where you send your cars for tuning has never been debated. Jason and I see eye to eye on tuning... No need for some sort of 3rd party war here, wont work..people have tried it, we laugh about it.

As far as your ability to build a motor, I wouldnt know, never seen one.


I dont care if half of Houston Imports thinks that you can run 10psi on a stock b16 and not have issues after a while....I personally have seen it, others have and it doesnt work. If you have a hatch that has it done and it works, GREAT! I wouldnt reccomend it to anyone.

[Silverbeast]

This depends on the componets used, the builder, and the size of the turbo.

Do you think that 10psi on a PT71 would hold just as well as 10psi on a t3/t4b?


Anwser my question please, just curious.

[cypher]

Hey maybe you cant build a 10psi sc61 b16 but some people can and still do with no problems.
Once again did i state that i was trying to make a 3rd party war here? Read what i type and dont put words that ive not said into my mouth.
Im stating facts of what have and will continue to be done by us because there is not a problem with our setups.

"I dont want to be associated with your shop, tuning, or anything you do. I wouldnt take a single dollar from you because I frankly dont need your money."

Couldnt agree with you more.. Seems like you have plenty.. We work for our money

[cypher]

Anwser my question please, just curious.

sorry im done with the convo.

Ill bow to the almight god of tuning :thumb:

keep your comments to yourself and ill do the same.

wanna "chat" futher? aim me :eekbunny:

[Mochanic]

so your telling me noone can build a 10psi stock block b16 and not blow it up with pump gas?
im just making sure that is what your saying
HMM, did I say that?
I thought I said 10psi is max for a daily driver (reliably)

Dude, anybody can make a stock motor live at over 10psi, hell, 20psi if you like, but I'm not talking about at 2 degrees of timing either!
Your missing all the variables here, 10 psi is not the argument, its 10psi reliably and it still make good power and be pump gas friendly!

From what I see here your really not doing anything at all, since we're talking about a stock motor that your not even the one tuning!
My little sister could bolt on a turbo kit, so exatly what are you so proud of?

I have tons of customers and lots of them are from out of town, some even from out of state... mainly because word of mouth!!! Word that I treat them right and care about their cars as much as they do... not to mention my work and pride in my work.
If you want to be responsible for blowing up somebody's car, why don't you start with your own first! Quit telling people here to put their car on the edge of blowing up unless you want to fix all of them for free when they do. Most people that know much about tuning and the limits of stock motors will tell you that over 10psi on a high compression motor and pump gas is a bad idea!!!

[Silverbeast]

Hey maybe you cant build a 10psi sc61 b16 but some people can and still do with no problems.
Once again did i state that i was trying to make a 3rd party war here? Read what i type and dont put words that ive not said into my mouth.
Im stating facts of what have and will continue to be done by us because there is not a problem with our setups.

"I dont want to be associated with your shop, tuning, or anything you do. I wouldnt take a single dollar from you because I frankly dont need your money."

Couldnt agree with you more.. Seems like you have plenty.. We work for our money

I personally dont care to build engines, there is a very very good Mochanic who does all my building. He can definaltey build an engine.

Next tiem ill be sure you include you in our tuning session or hell ill even pay you to tune our cars since we dont seem to have the right mind set here about how to build or where to send our cars for tuning.

You tried to imply that you are doing something wrong by taking cars to Jason....nice try. And offered me to come tune a car for you to be fecious.

I work for my money just as well as the next guy, I am sorry that you do not possess the knowledge I do in life.

[cypher]

HMM, did I say that?
I thought I said 10psi is max for a daily driver (reliably)

Dude, anybody can make a stock motor live at over 10psi, hell, 20psi if you like, but I'm not talking about at 2 degrees of timing either!
Your missing all the variables here, 10 psi is not the argument, its 10psi reliably and it still make good power and be pump gas friendly!

From what I see here your really not doing anything at all, since we're talking about a stock motor that your not even the one tuning!
My little sister could bolt on a turbo kit, so exatly what are you so proud of?

I have tons of customers and lots of them are from out of town, some even from out of state... mainly because word of mouth!!! Word that I treat them right and care about their cars as much as they do... not to mention my work and pride in my work.
If you want to be responsible for blowing up somebody's car, why don't you start with your own first! Quit telling people here to put their car on the edge of blowing up unless you want to fix all of them for free when they do. Most people that know much about tuning and the limits of stock motors will tell you that over 10psi on a high compression motor and pump gas is a bad idea!!!

stock shortblock sir, never stated the whole swap was stock. We do alot more then "bolt-up" a kit.

like i said wanna chat more you guys can aim me. otherwise ive got a car to finish

[cypher]

I personally dont care to build engines, there is a very very good Mochanic who does all my building. He can definaltey build an engine.



You tried to imply that you are doing something wrong by taking cars to Jason....nice try. And offered me to come tune a car for you to be fecious.

I work for my money just as well as the next guy, I am sorry that you do not possess the knowledge I do in life.

once again i bow to your knowledge. end of story. you know where to find me. ^^

[Mochanic]

stock shortblock sir, never stated the whole swap was stock. We do alot more then "bolt-up" a kit.

like i said wanna chat more you guys can aim me. otherwise ive got a car to finish

oh sorry, didnt know we were keeping you from it!
I thought pistons was pretty much the focal point of the reliabilty issue here, so what other than the shortblock really matters here?

[sherpag00dness]

after reading this im building my own engine and will learn on other peoples hard earned money how to tune.....

frankly disappointed and apprehenisve on who i want to spend money with for even parts

[avex]

i disagree , i like these kinds of threads lol ..i'm somewhat learning something by reading this.

btw buy my obd2b p28 :hs:

[Carboy247]

thanks pepz.....

[delacampos]

after reading this im building my own engine and will learn on other peoples hard earned money how to tune.....

frankly disappointed and apprehenisve on who i want to spend money with for even parts
i can vouch for silverbeast and his tuning. you will not be disappointed. he knows what he's doing.

[mikesrex]

after reading this im building my own engine and will learn on other peoples hard earned money how to tune.....

frankly disappointed and apprehenisve on who i want to spend money with for even parts


everyone has their own beliefs and methods when it comes to building and tuning. The good part about this thread is that people wanting to go turbo can see the reasoning behind why some people believe the way they do. This forum exists for discussions concerning what will work, why it works, and why other things may not work. Try to keep the nature of the discussion at a professional level around here. If everyone starts a flame war I will moderate as needed. Take a quick look at the rules to remember what is and isn't allowed.

[93 hatch]

I just think its all in the key word "tunning" and not some much on what psi. if its tuned right it will run right, if its not then good luck i guess.

[Silverbeast]

I just think its all in the key word "tunning" and not some much on what psi. if its tuned right it will run right, if its not then good luck i guess.


Not 100% true. The same 15psi on a PT71 is not going to be as 15psi on a t3 air reasearch turbo.

You can retard the timing to like 12-15 degrees up top and make it run, but why risk it?....just run a normal boost level on a smaller turbo, make decent power and be done.

[VashThaStampede]

holy shit..too many people just sayin stuff they've heard... blah blah fucking blah.. ricky
(silverbeast) definately knows his shit when it comes to tuning.. me,and a few others have learned more from him in a few months than ive learned about tuning in my 6 or 7 years in this scene... so shut up and listen...


you might just learn something.

that is all

[Mochanic]

damn Ricky,
with all these tuners on this board your gonna be out of a job soon!
still... again... ;)

but at least I will have lots of work!!! :kekegay:

[Silverbeast]

damn Ricky,
with all these tuners on this board your gonna be out of a job soon!
still... again... ;)

but at least I will have lots of work!!! :kekegay:


I think maybe there should be a fantasy draft of tuners and then some guys play internet fantasy league of tuners and see who wins by the end of race season.

It's easy to critisize and talk out of one's ass, but much more difficult to back up opinions with facts.

[fug_mo]

Tomorrow...me and ricky are gonna have a wacarnolds day.

[VashThaStampede]

i wanna play too, James... please.....

[Carboy247]

if i would of known this thread would of caused so much trouble i wouldn't of asked what kind of injectors i need........ i just want some feedback from different people who have worked w/ a set-up some what close to what i listed. i would like to learn from others experience........ change subject...... my car is daily driven and i don't have alot of $. i'm worried about blowing the motor or overheating it. i've been driving it for 3 days now and the temp gauge goes up to about 65% then back down. my boost gauge is reading at 4psi and i've never shifted passed 6,000 rpms. any help on cooling it down? still running stock obdII ecu. if that helps any.... i'm thinking everything is so jam packed in the engine bay that i don't have any air circulation, and i don't have a down pipe for the wastegate; it's open...right on my a/c pipes. coolent is checked everyday and never low. car is in shop now.... getting down pipe for the wastegate.......thanks for the help...FELLOW IMPORTERS.......:thumb:

[ngogsr]

lucky u didnt burn any holes w/the open wg :eek3:

[Carboy247]

:D lucky u didnt burn any holes w/the open wg :eek3:
i know.....lucky me....

[LamTran]

LOL, first round pick...mikerex(hes the mod), mochanic, then me........LOL
I think maybe there should be a fantasy draft of tuners and then some guys play internet fantasy league of tuners and see who wins by the end of race season.

It's easy to critisize and talk out of one's ass, but much more difficult to back up opinions with facts.
very interesting thread. i have to admit, flaming can be a good thing, it gets to a prominent point and shouldnt be in PMs. it enable others to know whats goin on. i hope no one del any of the post.

[mikesrex]

LOL, first round pick...mikerex(hes the mod), mochanic, then me........LOL

lol I can't tune! But I have my people:cool:

very interesting thread. i have to admit, flaming can be a good thing, it gets to a prominent point and shouldnt be in PMs. it enable others to know whats goin on. i hope no one del any of the post.

the rules state what can and can't fly in here. The goal of the forum is for everyone to learn more through a professional discussion of the topics. Trash talking really isn't required to discuss everything. Let's just agree that we can disagree about topics in a non-flaming way, while posting why we believe what we do.