Brakes for 240sx

[OneArmedScissor]

I was reading about the different brake upgrades and found that the 300zx upgrade was pretty cool. I was also told that brembo made a rotor that fit the 4x114.3 bolt pattern which was compatible with the 300zx brakes.

is this true and where might I acquire this?

also...what kind of work needs to be done to give good brake balance? I am trying to figure out if I need to get the 300zx proportioning valve or if there is an adjustable one availiable? :thumb:

[iMOTION S14]

Have you tried the stock brakes with some really good pads?

[silverline]

I was reading about the different brake upgrades and found that the 300zx upgrade was pretty cool. I was also told that brembo made a rotor that fit the 4x114.3 bolt pattern which was compatible with the 300zx brakes.

is this true and where might I acquire this?

also...what kind of work needs to be done to give good brake balance? I am trying to figure out if I need to get the 300zx proportioning valve or if there is an adjustable one availiable? :thumb:

well first it is a good set up.. you dont realy have to do the back and the proportioning will not be bad. if you do te back you will need a larger master cyl. brembo does but its not a big deal to drill stock rotors out.. as for getten them good luck most part houses are on back order and nissan own you if you try to get them there

[Oni-San]

Have you tried the stock brakes with some really good pads?

What about Hawk pads?

[lazymofo]

between break pads and Caliper. are in a totally different story.

[datsunguy1984]

when you do it i think that you have to run a larger rim than stock like a 16 someone correct me if i am wrong here is a great link that is step by step how to do it and what you need http://importnut.net/300zxbrakeswap.htm#MC

[iMOTION S14]

between break pads and Caliper. are in a totally different story.

What are break pads?

[lazymofo]

haha my bad brake pads :eh:

[KeiichiLe]

What about Hawk pads?

Man iam using HAWK right now. HAWK HPS.. they are absolutley have a very noticiable braking power. Doesnt get heat soaked as easy if not at all. I recommend them :thumb: Thanks Rodney for the tip on the rotars :thumb: Did a complete insatll in <45 minutes :rock: :rock: :rock:

[silverline]

Man iam using HAWK right now. HAWK HPS.. they are absolutley have a very noticiable braking power. Doesnt get heat soaked as easy if not at all. I recommend them :thumb: Thanks Rodney for the tip on the rotars :thumb: Did a complete insatll in <45 minutes :rock: :rock: :rock:
no problem man im glad to help..I am trying to get a suspension line going also, so maybe you should pm me keiichiLe

[datsunguy1984]

where can i get a set of HAWK HPS from as in what store or online

[NiS13]

when you do it i think that you have to run a larger rim than stock like a 16 someone correct me if i am wrong here is a great link that is step by step how to do it and what you need http://importnut.net/300zxbrakeswap.htm#MC

this is true...u have to run atleast 16's i think to fit the 300zx rotors but u have to make sure that the offset is right...some 16's will fit while others won't

[Craftsman]

Isn't the 300ZX brake conversion a 5 lug conversion? From what I've read, you can only do rear with 300ZX parts. Front requires aftermarket parts (or something like that... ) Never done it so I have no clue.

Matt.

[S13Koop]

Isn't the 300ZX brake conversion a 5 lug conversion? From what I've read, you can only do rear with 300ZX parts. Front requires aftermarket parts (or something like that... ) Never done it so I have no clue.

Matt.
It isn't necessarily a 5 lug conversion, as many S13 owners have the big brake upgrade too. I've installed the front calipers & rotors on my friends S13 (kit from heavy-throttle.com) and he didn't have 5 lug swap. It even cleared the SE wheels.

[lazymofo]

It isn't necessarily a 5 lug conversion, as many S13 owners have the big brake upgrade too. I've installed the front calipers & rotors on my friends S13 (kit from heavy-throttle.com) and he didn't have 5 lug swap. It even cleared the SE wheels.

SE wheels??!!?!??!!? it cleared??!?!?! :eek3:

[ProjectS15]

if you do the z32 brake conversion on an S13 or S14 with a 4 lug
you can still clear the Z32 brakes with the SE rims (7 spoke alloy rims)
the 15" steelies on the S13 and S14 will not clear the Brakes unless u have a spacer bah just my 2 cents :eek3dance

[NiS13]

Isn't the 300ZX brake conversion a 5 lug conversion? From what I've read, you can only do rear with 300ZX parts. Front requires aftermarket parts (or something like that... ) Never done it so I have no clue.

Matt.

u have to get the rotors redrilled for an s13

[datsunguy1984]

you can buy conversion hubs and run stock 300zx rims and not redrill

[OneArmedScissor]

I'd rather just do what a guy I know did and get the brembo blanks that are slightly bigger and fit the 4lug.

[rage]

the question is aluminum 30mm calipers or iron 30mm calipers

[datsunguy1984]

i think that i would go with the aluminum ones just because they are lighter

[Dorian]

the question is aluminum 30mm calipers or iron 30mm calipers
:roflmao: Dude that topic is as much discussed as the SR vs KA topic. :kekegay:

[John]

the question is aluminum 30mm calipers or iron 30mm calipers

Nissan changed to the iron caliper for the Z32 in 1993 due to problems with rotor warpage complaints. However, this did not resolve the issue that the brakes were simply inadequate to stop such a heavy car. The rotors would continue to overheat and rotors would warp. Basically, I would recommend going with the aluminum calipers due to them being lighter. There are no strength issues with them as opposed to the iron ones which work just as well. The aluminum calipers will have 'Sumitomo' in raised lettering on them while the iron ones will not. The iron ones also have a smoother finish to them with no cooling ridges.

[Sileighty]

SE wheels??!!?!??!!? it cleared??!?!?! :eek3:

the 26mm calipers can clear the s13 SE wheels. I've seen pics of it..it only clears it by a couple of mm's. I've yet to try it on mine though but I'll prob try the hawk hps brake pads and see how that works first :D

Man iam using HAWK right now. HAWK HPS.. they are absolutley have a very noticiable braking power. Doesnt get heat soaked as easy if not at all. I recommend them :thumb: Thanks Rodney for the tip on the rotars :thumb: Did a complete insatll in <45 minutes :rock: :rock: :rock:

what rotors do you have?

[KeiichiLe]

30mm Brembo Blanks

[OneArmedScissor]

30mm Brembo Blanks
thank you, sir!

First step is making the engine run. next I can worry about those brakes! ^_^

This forum kicks ass! Drift talk > *

[rage]

im about to upgrade my s14 front brakes to the 26mm ones, o reily gave me the wrong rotors, so im going to have to get some z ones are redrill them :wompwomp:. are drilled rotors as stable as non-drilled?

[Sickboy]

Drilled rotors are fine..


and if you have the iron calipers.. just order the alluminum remans from local auto parts with year model '91 and turn in the iron calipers for the rebate on core charges... they usually don't notice or give a shit even if they do.

[crzycav]

I'll try to clear up some misinformation. I have front and rear z-brakes on my car, so I know what I'm talking about.

Only certain s13 alloy wheels will clear the 26mm calipers. I won't explain how you can tell, because it's something you have to see in pictures to understand.

The s13 alloys will not clear the 30mm calipers.

s14 SE alloys(the neat 5-lug ones) will clear any z32 caliper.

The 1990 NA 300zx had the 26mm calipers(they're all aluminum)
The 1991 NA 300zx had the 30mm aluminum calipers.
Every other NA 300zx had 30mm iron calipers.

ALL TT's had 30mm iron, for all years.

If you want 30mm aluminum, go to oreilly's and order them from a 91 non-turbo, then after you finish the swap, go back a few days later and turn in your stock 240sx calipers. They will not know the difference, and you will earn back some money.

....

Now for the rears...

The rears bolt in just as easily. however, you lose the parking break unless you decide to buy the drum e-brake assembly. It takes some extra work, but it can be done(I have it on my 240). The rear calipers will clear the same s13 alloys that clear the 26mm front calipers. They may also clear the s13 alloys that do not clear the 26mm front calipers, but I haven't tested it.

....

I'm running the stock s13 master cylinder with the front and rear brakes. It's very bearable, and brake modulation is incredible. I would recommend against swapping to the z32 mc for a number of reasons...

it's more costly than it needs to be...
it's more work than there needs to be..
it's not as easy to control braking input..

All you get from it is a better pedal feel, and it's proportioned better for trail-braking. Basically, your rear wheels will lock up sooner than they would with the stock mc.


I have all the answers.

[rage]

who even re-drills rotors?

[John]

I'll try to clear up some misinformation. I have front and rear z-brakes on my car, so I know what I'm talking about.

The 1990 NA 300zx had the 26mm calipers(they're all aluminum)
The 1991 NA 300zx had the 30mm aluminum calipers.
Every other NA 300zx had 30mm iron calipers.

ALL TT's had 30mm iron, for all years.



If you are going to make a claim that you are going to clear up misinformation please make sure your own information is correct.

1990 NA 300ZX's manufactured before 6/90 have 26mm aluminum calipers. If the NA is manufactured after 6/90 and is an NA it has 30mm aluminum calipers. Other than that, all other calipers will be 30mm be it NA or TT. The only difference afterwards is when in 1993 the calipers changed from aluminum to iron as explained in my earlier post.

[Vincent_VII]

If you are going to make a claim that you are going to clear up misinformation please make sure your own information is correct.

1990 NA 300ZX's manufactured before 6/90 have 26mm aluminum calipers. If the NA is manufactured after 6/90 and is an NA it has 30mm aluminum calipers. Other than that, all other calipers will be 30mm be it NA or TT. The only difference afterwards is when in 1993 the calipers changed from aluminum to iron as explained in my earlier post.

Another 240 braking thread?

Ok, from experience; don't go with aluminum. The weight saving issue sounds like a good idea but you have to think about heat reduction as well. The aluminum calipers cause rotor warping on a regular basis due to heat issues. Literally, holding your brake pedal down while at a stoplight can warp your rotors with 300zx aluminum calipers.
Nissan realized this later and switched all calipers to Iron. Skylines and S15 Silvias use the same calipers and they are iron for the same reasons.

If you're getting 300zx brakes, spend the extra cash and get a master cylinder. The stock 240's MC doesn't push enough fluid causing all kinds of fun things to happen: back brakes lock first, almost no pedal feedback, and the need to replace rear pads twice a year or more with normal driving.

300zx MCs line right up with S13 brake line configurations. You'll need an allen wrench and a spare 240sx MC to plug the ABS port but that's it. Drain, swap, bleed and go.

As far as benefits from 300zx brakes there really aren't any unless you're pulling heavy track duty or going for a 2 hour canyon run (last time I checked the nearest canyon is over 300 miles from here).
You will not get a better stoping distance, even with the 300zx master cylinder. It's the exact same as if not worse than stock 240sx calipers.
You "will" however notice less brake fade durring harder driving. With 4 pistion calipers you will be able to lay on the brakes time and time again without noticing any reduction in stopping distance.

Considering the cost and the scrapes you'll aquire doing the swap, you probably would be best to take the advice of better pads and stainless steel lines. Good pads will help you combat the brake fading issue and the stainless steel lines will give you some good feedback and better fluid travel.

check out www.freshalloy.com forums and do a search on 300zx caliper swaps and you'll find several pages of information on this swap.

[Vincent_VII]

Nissan changed to the iron caliper for the Z32 in 1993 due to problems with rotor warpage complaints. However, this did not resolve the issue that the brakes were simply inadequate to stop such a heavy car. The rotors would continue to overheat and rotors would warp. Basically, I would recommend going with the aluminum calipers due to them being lighter. There are no strength issues with them as opposed to the iron ones which work just as well. The aluminum calipers will have 'Sumitomo' in raised lettering on them while the iron ones will not. The iron ones also have a smoother finish to them with no cooling ridges.

Haha, should have read your post before going into the rotor warpage issue.
Sorry if I requoted you on this.

However from experience, aluminum 300zx calipers still suffer the rotor warpage issue on 240s. This is magnified by the use of crossdrilled/slotted rotors.

[datsunguy1984]

so what about the doing the s14 rear brakes how do you go about doing that

[Vincent_VII]

so what about the doing the s14 rear brakes how do you go about doing that

This is answered in your other thread about the same topic.
Rear S14 calipers and Rear S13 calipers are the same. The rotor size is the same. The only difference being S14 SE rotors will have a 5 lug pattern. They will bolt on and line up with the stock S13 calipers you already have on the car.

[datsunguy1984]

ok thanks alot that helps

[NismoFreakS14]

Ok, from experience; don't go with aluminum. The weight saving issue sounds like a good idea but you have to think about heat reduction as well. The aluminum calipers cause rotor warping on a regular basis due to heat issues.


JGTC cars run aluminum calipers, Porsche GT2/3 run aluminum calipers, and all those big brake conversions? Yeah aluminum calipers. The Skyline uses an aluminum Brembo caliper, as does the EVO, STi, and a number of other heavier cars. Running an aluminum caliper will always be better than running an iron caliper, unless you change chemistry itself. Aluminum might distort at a lower temperature but it's convection properties also help to expel that heat into the atmosphere. You take two pieces of metal... one iron and one aluminum, heat them both to 500 deg. F and you'll be amazed how much faster the aluminum piece will cool. Why do you think intercoolers are made of aluminum (apart from weight)?

Literally, holding your brake pedal down while at a stoplight can warp your rotors with 300zx aluminum calipers.

Doing that on any car will cause warpage... and it's not due to the caliper distorting. It's due to the pad material being brazoned onto the face of the rotor (notice how there are pad impressions left on it?). This small build up of pad material makes the brakes pulsate when you stop.

If you're getting 300zx brakes, spend the extra cash and get a master cylinder. The stock 240's MC doesn't push enough fluid causing all kinds of fun things to happen: back brakes lock first, almost no pedal feedback, and the need to replace rear pads twice a year or more with normal driving.

You don't need to increase the size of the master cylinder. The only reason you would do that is to increase the pedal modulation ability because the 240SX master cylinder will create higher line pressures (pedal force / area of MC in sq. in.). This in it's own right will create higher braking torque than the 300ZX unit.

Also, the 240SX master cylinder has about 5% more frontal bias than the 300ZX master cylinder. So why would this cause the rears to lock up or wear down the pads faster? Sounds to me like someone had a rear brake issue, a suspension issue, or a pair of crappy tires and associated it to the brake swap.

In fact the 300Z master cylinder should not be used because of it's greater rear bias. The amount of frontal weight shift when braking is related in large part to the amount of braking torque (which has now increased), the wheelbase, the mass of the vehicle, deacceleration rate, and the force of inertia. Since every factor is different between a 240SX and a 300ZX you will need a differentiation between the braking bias. Nissan engineers understand this and designed the master cylinder accordingly.

As far as benefits from 300zx brakes there really aren't any unless you're pulling heavy track duty or going for a 2 hour canyon run (last time I checked the nearest canyon is over 300 miles from here).
You will not get a better stoping distance, even with the 300zx master cylinder. It's the exact same as if not worse than stock 240sx calipers.
You "will" however notice less brake fade durring harder driving. With 4 pistion calipers you will be able to lay on the brakes time and time again without noticing any reduction in stopping distance.


Agreed that the swap isn't for everyone, however... you CAN get better braking distances with the 300ZX brakes. Physics dictates that more negative force (braking torque) applied will deaccelerate an object faster (force over time... you could even rate it as negative HP (work/time)). However... the limiting factor in this is the tires. The tires are what translate the braking force to the road. If you have crappy tires then the brakes irregardless of how big they are will be limited to a single peak value. However if you are running wider, lower pressure, stickier compound tires then you can easily decrease stopping distances with a larger front brake.

Considering the cost and the scrapes you'll aquire doing the swap, you probably would be best to take the advice of better pads and stainless steel lines. Good pads will help you combat the brake fading issue and the stainless steel lines will give you some good feedback and better fluid travel.


For a street car that is rarely raced, or even for auto-x the stock brakes work very well, and as Vincent said you should look into upgrading pads, lines, and fluid.

[initial what?]

^^^ thats some really good information :thumb:

[King 240]

NismoFreakS14 is like the Nissan Mr. Peabody,lol
JK

That was some very useful information for the noobs here.

[Vincent_VII]

JGTC cars run aluminum calipers, Porsche GT2/3 run aluminum calipers, and all those big brake conversions? Yeah aluminum calipers. The Skyline uses an aluminum Brembo caliper, as does the EVO, STi, and a number of other heavier cars. Running an aluminum caliper will always be better than running an iron caliper, unless you change chemistry itself. Aluminum might distort at a lower temperature but it's convection properties also help to expel that heat into the atmosphere. You take two pieces of metal... one iron and one aluminum, heat them both to 500 deg. F and you'll be amazed how much faster the aluminum piece will cool. Why do you think intercoolers are made of aluminum (apart from weight)?



Doing that on any car will cause warpage... and it's not due to the caliper distorting. It's due to the pad material being brazoned onto the face of the rotor (notice how there are pad impressions left on it?). This small build up of pad material makes the brakes pulsate when you stop.



You don't need to increase the size of the master cylinder. The only reason you would do that is to increase the pedal modulation ability because the 240SX master cylinder will create higher line pressures (pedal force / area of MC in sq. in.). This in it's own right will create higher braking torque than the 300ZX unit.

Also, the 240SX master cylinder has about 5% more frontal bias than the 300ZX master cylinder. So why would this cause the rears to lock up or wear down the pads faster? Sounds to me like someone had a rear brake issue, a suspension issue, or a pair of crappy tires and associated it to the brake swap.

In fact the 300Z master cylinder should not be used because of it's greater rear bias. The amount of frontal weight shift when braking is related in large part to the amount of braking torque (which has now increased), the wheelbase, the mass of the vehicle, deacceleration rate, and the force of inertia. Since every factor is different between a 240SX and a 300ZX you will need a differentiation between the braking bias. Nissan engineers understand this and designed the master cylinder accordingly.



Agreed that the swap isn't for everyone, however... you CAN get better braking distances with the 300ZX brakes. Physics dictates that more negative force (braking torque) applied will deaccelerate an object faster (force over time... you could even rate it as negative HP (work/time)). However... the limiting factor in this is the tires. The tires are what translate the braking force to the road. If you have crappy tires then the brakes irregardless of how big they are will be limited to a single peak value. However if you are running wider, lower pressure, stickier compound tires then you can easily decrease stopping distances with a larger front brake.



For a street car that is rarely raced, or even for auto-x the stock brakes work very well, and as Vincent said you should look into upgrading pads, lines, and fluid.


I bow to you sir.

[SomeOne49]

this is not english :wompwomp:

Yes i am a moron

[nismo240sx]

Isn't the 300ZX brake conversion a 5 lug conversion? From what I've read, you can only do rear with 300ZX parts. Front requires aftermarket parts (or something like that... ) Never done it so I have no clue.

Matt.

Everything fits on S14's. They even fit the stock SE sweels, tight squeeze but will fit. The only thing is I had to get 300zx brake lines, and the only mods I had to do to my car was plasma cut the dust shield.

[Ris4Drift]

I am about to do the swap, and im glad nismofreak cleared up some the mc issues i was wondering about as far as bias etc.


i do disagree with you a little however, stock s13 brakes suck. my auto-x on them when you try to threshold with them, they suck hardcore. at 1st i thougth it was just my pos13 but after codrivign my freind's with kvr pads (and ka-t :) i realized that s13 brakes jsut plain arent that great.

if your drifitng/ occasional auto-x they may be fine.

if you wanna get into racing ( not drag ) i recoomend it. the stock brakes imo just dont cut it.

[NismoFreakS14]

I am about to do the swap, and im glad nismofreak cleared up some the mc issues i was wondering about as far as bias etc.


i do disagree with you a little however, stock s13 brakes suck. my auto-x on them when you try to threshold with them, they suck hardcore. at 1st i thougth it was just my pos13 but after codrivign my freind's with kvr pads (and ka-t :) i realized that s13 brakes jsut plain arent that great.

if your drifitng/ occasional auto-x they may be fine.

if you wanna get into racing ( not drag ) i recoomend it. the stock brakes imo just dont cut it.

I had no issues threashold braking on the stock brakes in my S14. What in particular is poor about their performance?

IMO, Z32 brakes don't cut it for road racing either... take that as a recommendation into getting something larger.

[Ris4Drift]

the feel is just crap. my metro has more pedal feel than the s13's ive driven. also it just seemed like the brakes arent as stoppy as they used to be.

[NismoFreakS14]

the feel is just crap. my metro has more pedal feel than the s13's ive driven. also it just seemed like the brakes arent as stoppy as they used to be.


My suggestion would be to completely change out the fluids and lines. About the only thing you can do for pedal feel beyond upgrading to a larger brake.

[King 240]

yea for now i'm going to get slotted rotors, Hawk brake pads, higher grade brake fluid, and braided lines for my S13. That should hold me for a while. I will do the Z32 upgrade when i get my wheels.
When I had my S14 SE all I did was racing fluid (more like a higher grade brake fluid if I remember correctly), Hawk brake pads and OEM Brembo blanks all around. My car was a pretty damn good stopper.
I think alot of people in the 240 family just decide to do the Z32 brake upgrade cause its like the honda guys are with intake, header, exhaust you know.

Again thanks for the tech info NismoFreak :rock: