What Has Bush Done For The Working Class Minority Community?

[DJ®]

I'm going to try Muddy's "educate me" approach:

Why should I....a middle-class Black American....vote for George Bush?

What has he done for our community, or minorities in general?

[Mobil1]

why should your race hold sway over who you vote for?

why isnt the question "why should i...a middle class american...vote for george bush"?

just wondering, not trying to be rude. :)

[DJ®]

why should your race hold sway over who you vote for?


Why should being a senior citizen matter?
Why should being young matter?
Why should being disabled matter?
Why should being homosexual matter?

these are all groups that politicians have to appeal to.........they just can't go after one type of American.

[veritas]

DJ pointed out "minority." Blacks are a minority, just like Mormons.

[Mobil1]

DJ pointed out "minority." Blacks are a minority, just like Mormons.
sure, but my religion doesnt influence how i vote.

how does race influence a person's vote?

[that_guy]

sure, but my religion doesnt influence how i vote.

how does race influence a person's vote?
he is just asking if bush has done anything for minorities i think. I mean he has concentrated on other groups of society to try and improve things but has there been any programs specifically directed at benefitting the middle class minoritites.

[Agent S14]

I'm going to try Muddy's "educate me" approach:

Why should I....a middle-class Black American....vote for George Bush?

What has he done for our community, or minorities in general?
Damn i never thought of that,good question

[Leo]

sure, but my religion doesnt influence how i vote.

how does race influence a person's vote?


sure.
We believe that.
:eyesjack:

[Mobil1]

sure.
We believe that.
:eyesjack:
oh, okay smart ass.

then YOU tell me how my religion influences my vote. since you OBVIOUSLY know and i dont.

[Leo]

oh, okay smart ass.

then YOU tell me how my religion influences my vote. since you OBVIOUSLY know and i dont.


If you have to ask.

[Mobil1]

If you have to ask.youre the one who accused me of lying, so i want you to prove it.

prove that my religion influences my vote.

[veritas]

Bullshit. You all like the fact Bush plays on the fact he is a "godly man."

In a time of Christians verse Muslims.....religion influences alot of people.

Me personally, I am a devote Roman Catholic. But I would still vote Kerry even if he wasn't Catholic.


Back to the topic. DJ, I do believe that Bush has isolated himself from minority groups. The man seems to only care about the "haves and have mores."

[DJ®]

how does race influence a person's vote?

Easy, if a candidate isn't doing anything to help people in your race.....then you don't vote for them.

For example, if a President has initiated programs to help minorities obtain small businesses in areas where it's tough for them (ex. banks in the area wont lend to minorities....so government funds are avaliable through these programs). That President has done things to help the minority community.

[Leo]

youre the one who accused me of lying, so i want you to prove it.

prove that my religion influences my vote.


Kerry is very big with the Mormons.

my bad.

[Mobil1]

Kerry is very big with the Mormons.

my bad. because all mormons are the same. and think exactly alike.

[veritas]

because all mormons are the same. and think exactly alike.

The majority does.

[Mobil1]

The majority does.lol, how many mormons do you know?

[veritas]

Are Mormons Conservative?
by Justin Hart
31 March 2004

Everything you wanted to know about Mormons but were afraid to ask.

As Peter Jennings was tallying up the electoral votes for George Bush (41) during the 1988 presidential election, I can recall feeling a bit slighted as a Mormon. Said Jennings: “Utah, with its three electoral votes, has voted Republican for as long as anyone can remember.” I was only 16 years old at that time, but I recall a certain grit and assumption in Jennings’ tone that led me to think… is it really a given that Mormons vote Republican?

History has borne out Jennings’ remark and for good reason. Republicans, or more broadly, conservatives, share many of the same values as Mormons. Both groups tout solid traditional values, limited government intervention, and entrepreneurial thinking. Mormons will likely lean Republican for the foreseeable future. I’d like to think this fact keeps the Left up at night, but I doubt it.

Mormon Politics

On the other hand, maybe it should? Mormon representation in American politics has grown beyond demographic equilibrium. With over five million members living in the United States (11 million world wide), Mormons account for 1.6% of the U.S. population, but more than 5% of elected representatives in congress. Please don’t tell Jesse Jackson.

Just a few examples: in the House of Representatives there is Jeff Flake (AZ), John Doolittle (CA), Wally Herger (CA), Howard McKeon (CA), Ernest Istook (OK), Mike Simpson (ID), Thomas Udall (NM), Rob Bishop (UT), and Chris Cannon (UT). All except Udall are Republican. (Udall notes his faith as unspecified, but he comes from a long historical line of Mormon politicians) There are 21 Mormon members in the House of Representatives all together.

In the Senate there are 5 Mormons. Senators Orrin Hatch and Bob Bennett, both from Utah, Senator Mike Crapo of Idaho and Gordon Smith from Oregon (the latter is considered a moderate Republican). The fifth member of the Senate is the ultimate exception to the rule: Senator Harry Reid, senior member of the Democrat leadership and, by all accounts, left-leaning.

Outside Washington you have the successful gubernatorial candidacy of Olympic organizer Mitt Romney, Bay Buchanan, radio talk show host Glenn Beck, and most recently, former Utah Governor Mike Leavitt was confirmed as Secretary of the EPA.

Mormons, Inc.

Beyond politics, Mormons also share the Conservative “mark of the beast.” Indeed, most of the prominent Mormon names people recognize are not in politics but in “Big Business.”

Most notably there is the Marriott Corporation: J. W. Marriott, the late founder of the hotel chain who started his empire selling R&W Root Beer on the Mall in the early 1940s. Next on the list: Stephen R. Covey, author of the bestselling book: Seven Habits of Highly Effective People and CEO of Franklin Covey, Inc. Top executives at Dell, AOL, Novell, Black & Decker, the list goes on. During the heyday of the 90’s investment watch there was even a Mormon Stock Index. You could also include the sports and entertainment careers of Steve Young, Danny Ainge, and the Osmonds.

The Mormon Church is frequently branded as a business in its own right. In 1997, Time Magazine ran a cover story entitled: "MORMONS, INC. The Secrets of America's Most Prosperous Religion." Trumpeted Time: “The church's material triumphs rival even its evangelical advances.” They estimated the Church’s worth at about $30 Billion. This is a bit overboard as I see it, but the church does require a tithe from its members, which sustains the church’s coffers very well.

To top it off, the Mormon Church has a lay clergy (there’s a cost savings right there!). My Bishop, for example, is an analyst for the CIA, his counselor was a field agent (now that’s a Batman scenario!). Our local Stake President (something like an Arch-Bishop) just retired as a top controller for the CBO. (I’m not sure if this last point is strictly conservative)

Mormon Welfare

However, there are well-established conservative programs that any welfare-loathing neo-con would appreciate. Local tithes go to support needy families in the ward (parish). Such welfare support is limited to one year and every ward has an “employment specialist.” The Mormon Church also has canning facilities throughout the world, where members of the church volunteer time and money, and whose stockpiles are sent to foreign countries as aid.

Recently, the church implemented a “perpetual education fund;” low-interest school loans to non-U.S. Mormons who have “served missions” (you know, white shirts, black name tags). They attend schools within their own communities and pay back the money into the fund for other aspiring students. As a side note, while American Mormons are decidedly pro-Bush, they turned down the administration’s “faith-based” funds without blinking.

The church is wholly self-sustaining, paying for every building in cash and accepting all forms of collateral for tithes. (My father usually pays with in-kind stock donations). The church owns farms, schools, banks, and broadcasting services (check for the BYU channel on Dish network).

Liberals against Mormons

Of late, the church has gotten into all sorts of trouble with liberals. Whether it’s feminist complaints about BYU staffing, urging members to support California’s DMI campaign, or rantings about “free-speech” suppression; leftist-groups on the whole, pretty much loath the Mormon Church. Did I mention that the Mormon Church accounts for almost fifteen percent of Boy Scout troops across the nation?

To be sure there are exceptions to the conservative norm. The church is surely anti-tobacco and my friends tell me I’m not truly a conservative until I can “drink with the best of them.” Issues like polygamy still follow us around (my wife is also my third-cousin once removed, but not by blood – go figure) and one always has to wonder about Orrin Hatch.

But, in truth, if you see a guy sporting a Book of Mormon, odds are seven to one he leans right! But I’m not betting man, I’m a Mormon after all.

[that_guy]

just because you cut and paste an article about "mormon beliefs" does NOT mean that this reflects the views of every mormon or Mobil himself. Are you that retarded and close minded?

[-=E36=-]

just because you cut and paste an article about "mormon beliefs" does NOT mean that this reflects the views of every mormon or Mobil himself. Are you that retarded and close minded?

I think he is a bit sterotypical.....

Ryan

[that_guy]

I think he is a bit sterotypical.....

RYan
I think I agree.

JAson

[-=E36=-]

I think I agree.

JAson

:eek3: pwnage

[DJ®]

how does race influence a person's vote?

In case you missed it amongst the Mormon arguement..........I did answer your question :kekegay:

[azinwood]

i grew up in idaho, 3 hours north of Salt Lake City and I can say from 18 years of experience most mormons were conservative and did vote republican.


and i can only imagine what they told them inside the church (or temple or stake house or whatever)

[MuddyJEEP.com]

I'm going to try Muddy's "educate me" approach:

Why should I....a middle-class Black American....vote for George Bush?

What has he done for our community, or minorities in general?

this is a good question, because sadly enough, our country does indeed try to grab votes via using the "race card".....we do indeed "cater" to the other races with tons and tons of programs and benefits.......what does a poor old white boy get?...nothing but the boot in the butt....but let me be a certain color or considered to be a minority, and WHAMMO! the truck loads of stuff arrives at my door! I dont even have to go downtown and apply for it anymore....they ( the government) just freely dishes it out.....and why do you ask is our society this way?.......I dunno, really, I dont....ask al sharpton and Jackson and that homo quanel x dude why they instigate such hatred and racism..........sorry, off on a tagent........to answer, I dont know what they are promising to do for you and your poor oppressed peoples......Why dont we just have a government for the people , by the people and why does it have to be based on color?

not hating and not cutting and pasting, just asking why you would want or expect something different from either of the canidates that I wont get?

[axio]

this is a good question, because sadly enough, our country does indeed try to grab votes via using the "race card".....we do indeed "cater" to the other races with tons and tons of programs and benefits.......what does a poor old white boy get?...nothing but the boot in the butt....but let me be a certain color or considered to be a minority, and WHAMMO! the truck loads of stuff arrives at my door! I dont even have to go downtown and apply for it anymore....they ( the government) just freely dishes it out.....and why do you ask is our society this way?.......I dunno, really, I dont....ask al sharpton and Jackson and that homo quanel x dude why they instigate such hatred and racism..........sorry, off on a tagent........to answer, I dont know what they are promising to do for you and your poor oppressed peoples......Why dont we just have a government for the people , by the people and why does it have to be based on color?

not hating and not cutting and pasting, just asking why you would want or expect something different from either of the canidates that I wont get?
Hypocrite.

Do you complain when Bush does something that pushes his religion in the face of America like a giant cock in your face? No, you don't.

[MuddyJEEP.com]

Bullshit. You all like the fact Bush plays on the fact he is a "godly man."

In a time of Christians verse Muslims.....religion influences alot of people.

Me personally, I am a devote Roman Catholic. But I would still vote Kerry even if he wasn't Catholic.


Back to the topic. DJ, I do believe that Bush has isolated himself from minority groups. The man seems to only care about the "haves and have mores."
doesnt Kerry lay claim to being a catholic?....yet he is for abortion?....flip flop king
anyway, veritas, your actions prove you are not a devout R Catholic....actions speak louder than words.....now cuss and call me some more names and tell me you are.................just another observation on my part................(I can see the slam coming from a mile away)
wait, I apologize veritas....I forgot, there are catholic preist who like to fondle little alter boys , but yet they call themselves priests.......i see how it works now

[MuddyJEEP.com]

Hypocrite.

Do you complain when Bush does something that pushes his religion in the face of America like a giant cock in your face? No, you don't.
explain that to me, how is that being a hypocrite?....and what has he done to push his religion in your face....say" may God Bless our nation" at the end of his speaches....wow, that hurts.....and remember to make sure your kids dont pray in their schools also why you are at it......

[996TT_2002]

Hypocrite.

Do you complain when Bush does something that pushes his religion in the face of America like a giant cock in your face? No, you don't.

Oh no... religion in a leader? The horror.

Grow up. 75% of the founding fathers had seminary degrees.
The US Goverment is based off the presbytary, as in from religion.
God is deeply rooted in every area of government from buildings, to currency.
The basic laws and morals of this country were derived from Judeo-Christian origins.
This country is based on God.
It's people who try and ignore and remove that fact that are causing the detioration

The founding fathers left b/c of oppression of their beliefs, but they had beliefs. Most were Christians, and they moved here to practice that fact.

The article that Congress shall pass not law establishing a religion does not prevent the President or any other person in office from sharing his beliefs and acting upon them.

You're just so angry at religion or God or something that you're blind to the truth. It's sad really, but oh well. Only you can help yourself.


To the original poster, how about asking what have you done to help yourself?
Seriously, why are you looking for something?
How about the fact that he's having you and others pay less taxes regardless of color? You get to keep more of your money!
And, since I work with state goverment, I know that you cannot get a contract anymore unless it goes through a female or minority owned firm? How's that fair? Well either way, it happened under his watch as Governor, so he's not anti-black.

The Democrats take the black vote for granted. It's a shame that the black community doesn't seem to care.

[axio]

explain that to me, how is that being a hypocrite?....and what has he done to push his religion in your face....say" may God Bless our nation" at the end of his speaches....wow, that hurts.....and remember to make sure your kids dont pray in their schools also why you are at it......
Are you kidding? He is pushing the agenda of one group, and you are fine with it. But when it comes to other minorities you have a problem with it. That makes you a hypocrite. Otherwise you'd be against him favoring any singular group.

Banning stem cell research, pushing to get Roe V Wade booted, giving faith based groups funding, pushing for faith based initiative (because what a crack addict needs is a bible instead of a methodone clinic?), wanting gay arriage banned (shit, even going so far as to say he wants the Constitution to change to ban it), creating the OFBCI, and getting the cubit to be used as a measurement because the bible has it in it even though it hasn't been used in the states for about 200 years,

How can you say that isn't faith based?

You agree with it, so you see no problem with it. But only 34% (according to FedStats) of America is "Christian" (it breaks up even more since a lot of Christians don't even agree if another group is Christian), that isn't even a majority. So he is catering to a minority.

[MuddyJEEP.com]

Hypocrite.

Do you complain when Bush does something that pushes his religion in the face of America like a giant cock in your face? No, you don't.
and I have to say....TSTiger, I feel you are a very educated individual, you have shown to actually know what you are talking about , ..at times, I dont have to agree with all of your points, but I do find them of interest and to be somewhat based on intelligence....I do respect your knowledge , but I have to say...when you write like you do.., and you know what I am saying....it seriously detracts from your message and the image of intelligence that I KNOW you want to portray......just another stupid observation from the much hated Muddy as of late :roflmao:

[veritas]

anyway, veritas, your actions prove you are not a devout R Catholic....actions speak louder than words.

wait, I apologize veritas....I forgot, there are catholic preist who like to fondle little alter boys , but yet they call themselves priests.......i see how it works now

PM Sent

[MuddyJEEP.com]

Are you kidding? He is pushing the agenda of one group, and you are fine with it. But when it comes to other minorities you have a problem with it. That makes you a hypocrite. Otherwise you'd be against him favoring any singular group.

Banning stem cell research, pushing to get Roe V Wade booted, giving faith based groups funding, pushing for faith based initiative (because what a crack addict needs is a bible instead of a methodone clinic?), wanting gay arriage banned (shit, even going so far as to say he wants the Constitution to change to ban it), creating the OFBCI, and getting the cubit to be used as a measurement because the bible has it in it even though it hasn't been used in the states for about 200 years,

How can you say that isn't faith based?

You agree with it, so you see no problem with it. But only 34% (according to FedStats) of America is "Christian" (it breaks up even more since a lot of Christians don't even agree if another group is Christian), that isn't even a majority. So he is catering to a minority.
very good response indeed........ok...I see your point, I havent personally thought about it like that, oe figured wooo-hoooo, hes helping "us" again...but darn good points you made there

[MuddyJEEP.com]

PM Sent
to me?...or the pope?....I dont see it.....must take a sec.

[Mobil1]

i grew up in idaho, 3 hours north of Salt Lake City and I can say from 18 years of experience most mormons were conservative and did vote republican.


and i can only imagine what they told them inside the church (or temple or stake house or whatever)youre way off base there, we do not discuss any politics in church or in our temples. the church completely separates it self from all political parties. we only encourage our members to get out and vote for who they feel will best serve our country.

and veritas you, like that_guy stated, are grossly over-generalizing and stereotyping mormons. not ALL mormons lean far right. i am a moderate. i dont base my votes on my personal bias or beliefs. for instance i am morally opposed to abortion, but from a legal stand point i find no grounds for its banning so i will not vote against it. the same goes for gay marraige.

[Mobil1]

In case you missed it amongst the Mormon arguement..........I did answer your question :kekegay:yeah, i read your response, sorry i didnt reply.

i see your point and for the most part agree with what you said. :thumb:

[axio]

Oh no... religion in a leader? The horror.

Grow up. 75% of the founding fathers had seminary degrees.
The US Goverment is based off the presbytary, as in from religion.
God is deeply rooted in every area of government from buildings, to currency.
The basic laws and morals of this country were derived from Judeo-Christian origins.
This country is based on God.
It's people who try and ignore and remove that fact that are causing the detioration

The founding fathers left b/c of oppression of their beliefs, but they had beliefs. Most were Christians, and they moved here to practice that fact.

The article that Congress shall pass not law establishing a religion does not prevent the President or any other person in office from sharing his beliefs and acting upon them.

You're just so angry at religion or God or something that you're blind to the truth. It's sad really, but oh well. Only you can help yourself.

You are wrong. The US wasn't created as a Christian state.

Finke & Stark, The Church in America, 1776-1990: Winners and Losers in Our Religious Economy

Some quick facts:

- Only 17% of colonists belonged to churches.
- Ethan Allen was a Deist and didn't believe in the divinity of Christ
- Washington, Jefferson, Franklin - none of them were specifically Christian. Jefferson called the deity of Christ/ressurection/Trinity/etc the "deliria of crazy imaginations." Newspapers published letters against Washington from people that grew up with him and knew him well when he was first being offered the positon state that: "He seems never to have taken communion; and he did not invariably go to church on Sundays." John Adams openly called the Bible an "awful blasphemy".
- Jefferson wrote the following to Adams in a letter: "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
- Lincoln never joined a church, and even wrote a treatise against Christianity.
- In 1873 the NRA (National Reform Association) wanted to ammend the constituion so that it would "declare the nation's allegiance to Jesus Christ and its acceptance of the moral laws of the Christian religion, and so indicate that this a Christian nation." It was rejected by Congress.
- All but one Founding Fathers were Freemasons, they aren't very Christian. Freemasons are somewhat Pagan in their beliefs.

Ostling, "Founding Father Jefferson radically rewrote Bible"
- Jefferson heavily edited the Bible to take out any traces of Jesus being divine.

[Mobil1]

You are wrong. The US wasn't created as a Christian state.:wrd:

it was created as a free state. no state sponsored religion.

[axio]

a shit, I forgot to type "is a Christian nation"; I hate copying out of books :/

[Trae*]

i wonder why "in god we trust" is the national motto of the united states :eek3:

[axio]

i wonder why "in god we trust" is the national motto of the united states :eek3:
It didn't become the national motto until 1956 :o far from "founding"; it was made the national motto during the Red Scare to scare (?) Commies.

Before then "E Pluribus Unum" was our national motto

[Mobil1]

It didn't become the national motto until 1956 far from "founding"; it was made the national motto during the Red Scare to... I dunno what... Commies.whoa, i didnt know that. what about in court rooms? is that fairly recent as well?

also, how long have we been swearing on the bible?

[axio]

whoa, i didnt know that. what about in court rooms? is that fairly recent as well?

also, how long have we been swearing on the bible?
It didn't appear on paper money until the 50s during the Red Scare. BUT it was on one coin when the first NRA was around. James Pollock got it onto a penny because he was a designer at he national mint.

swearing on the bible has been around since the British court system, it is really a formality

[axio]

but we are getting off topic

I'd like to hear what Bush has done for minority groups like African Americans, Native Americans, etc.

[Mobil1]

swearing on the bible has been around since the British court system, it is really a formalityi know the bible in front of the court house down town has been ordered to be removed because it "forces christian principles on the public", its removal could have easily been avoided but the group defending its presence shot them self in the foot during the court procedings basically by making the exact argument that 996TT_2002 made.

makes me wonder how long it will be before swearing on the bible goes before the supreme court...

[axio]

i know the bible in front of the court house down town has been ordered to be removed because it "forces christian principles on the public", its removal could have easily been avoided but the group defending its presence shot them self in the foot during the court procedings basically by making the exact argument that 996TT_2002 made.

makes me wonder how long it will be before swearing on the bible goes before the supreme court...
Personally I find trying to get the pledge out of schools, and the 10 commandments out of courts, etc all a waste of time. I went to high school here, it didn't change me at all.

Atheists are just as rabid about getting their agenda pushed as Christians are.

[Trae*]

It didn't appear on paper money until the 50s during the Red Scare. BUT it was on one coin when the first NRA was around. James Pollock got it onto a penny because he was a designer at he national mint.

swearing on the bible has been around since the British court system, it is really a formality

it was put on paper in 57 and the red scare was well before that 1918(19)-1921

[Flores]

as bizzare as they may sound, why should a politician have to try and do something special impress a 'minority' group?

The job isn't to be president to that minority group, it's for all of us. we have other representatives to push special interests like that.

The office of the President is supposed to be a leadership role, not a 'promise them the moon so they love me' role.

By bending over backwards to cater to special interests to the detriment of the rest of us, our country only gets weaker and more confused... and we look weak and confused to our enemys, who are encourged by that state...

So in respone to the question 'what has bush done for minorities' I have to ask, what SHOULD he be doing that wouldn't label him as a sell out to 'xx' special interest?

[axio]

it was put on paper in 57 and the red scare was well before that 1918(19)-1921
Red Scare went on until 1960-1962 (depends on who you ask), until the end of McCarthyism and the last black list was abolished. Lots of history books like to split them into First Red Scare (1918-1921/1922) and Second Red Scare (1945-1962)... but we kept incarcerating people because they might be communists from 1918-1962 so the only way you can break them is by saying "they were public" in these years.
as bizzare as they may sound, why should a politician have to try and do something special impress a 'minority' group?

The job isn't to be president to that minority group, it's for all of us. we have other representatives to push special interests like that.

The office of the President is supposed to be a leadership role, not a 'promise them the moon so they love me' role.

By bending over backwards to cater to special interests to the detriment of the rest of us, our country only gets weaker and more confused... and we look weak and confused to our enemys, who are encourged by that state...

So in respone to the question 'what has bush done for minorities' I have to ask, what SHOULD he be doing that wouldn't label him as a sell out to 'xx' special interest?
I dunno, to get votes maybe?

[Mobil1]

as bizzare as they may sound, why should a politician have to try and do something special impress a 'minority' group?

The job isn't to be president to that minority group, it's for all of us. we have other representatives to push special interests like that.

The office of the President is supposed to be a leadership role, not a 'promise them the moon so they love me' role.

By bending over backwards to cater to special interests to the detriment of the rest of us, our country only gets weaker and more confused... and we look weak and confused to our enemys, who are encourged by that state...

So in respone to the question 'what has bush done for minorities' I have to ask, what SHOULD he be doing that wouldn't label him as a sell out to 'xx' special interest?
this is kind of what i was getting at earlier in the thread. it seems to me that the president's job isnt to cater to special interests and minorities, it to make our country as a whole safer and ensure that none of our rights are violated. by seperating our selves in to different minority groups we lose sight of the forest for the trees so to speak... :-/

[DJ®]

this is kind of what i was getting at earlier in the thread. it seems to me that the president's job isnt to cater to special interests and minorities, it to make our country as a whole safer and ensure that none of our rights are violated. by seperating our selves in to different minority groups we lose sight of the forest for the trees so to speak... :-/

I wasn't saying a President needs to cater to a certain group........but at the least act like every group is equal and makes a difference to them.

I don't care what people say......minorities need programs. Maybe the programs need to be re-worked......but they are still needed, the example with the small businesses is a perfect example.

[DJ®]

this is a good question, because sadly enough, our country does indeed try to grab votes via using the "race card".....we do indeed "cater" to the other races with tons and tons of programs and benefits.......what does a poor old white boy get?...nothing but the boot in the butt....

I guess you didn't read my example:

Easy, if a candidate isn't doing anything to help people in your race.....then you don't vote for them.

For example, if a President has initiated programs to help minorities obtain small businesses in areas where it's tough for them (ex. banks in the area wont lend to minorities....so government funds are avaliable through these programs). That President has done things to help the minority community.

[Mobil1]

I wasn't saying a President needs to cater to a certain group........but at the least act like every group is equal and makes a difference to them.agreed. :thumb:

[3.5altima123]

I know Bush has increase the amount of African Americans graduating Highschool and going on to higher learning.

[DJ®]

I know Bush has increase the amount of African Americans graduating Highschool and going on to higher learning.

Here in Texas (when he was Governor)? Or do you mean Nationwide?

[WhiteStickyRice]

I guess me being a Caucasian/White living in Texas makes me a minority since Hispanics just took over in population.

[DJ®]

I guess me being a Caucasian/White living in Texas makes me a minority since Hispanics just took over in population.

Not yet my friend:

24% Mexican
12% Black
3% Asian
5% Other

56% White

[gq]

Not yet my friend:

24% Mexican
12% Black
3% Asian
5% Other

56% White

That is of the citizens. Keep in mind there are currently an estimated 8.5million illegal MEXICAN imigrants. That doesnt account for other hispanics.

It MIGHT be 6.5million, but either way, it jacks that 24% a bit higher.

[DJ®]

That is of the citizens. Keep in mind there are currently an estimated 8.5million illegal MEXICAN imigrants. That doesnt account for other hispanics.

It MIGHT be 6.5million, but either way, it jacks that 24% a bit higher.

well "unofficially" a minority..........but officially: Not Yet

[stretch-d]

DJ...Read this article of political history of the Republican party and what it has done for African Americans...including it's first initiation agenda of combating slavery. In other words, ensuring the end of slavery through equal rights was the reason that the republican party was first formed.

http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=republican+history+blacks++ben efits&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D3 e2957ea0f712d53%26clickedItemRank%3D4%26userQuery% 3Drepublican%2Bhistory%2Bblacks%2B%2Bbenefits%26cl ickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wallbuilders .com%252Fresources%252Fsearch%252Fdetail.php%253FR esourceID%253D34%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DNSCPResults%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wallbuilders.com%2Fres ources%2Fsearch%2Fdetail.php%253FResourceID%253D34

But I believe the Republican party has lost the 'Black vote' due to lack of education on the true history of the political landscape that has gotten us to this point as well as the Republican party not doing enough to reach out to the Black minority population...

[Demosthenes]

It must suck to be a politician...especialy with the whole race thing. If your running mate is white are you possibly ignoring more qualified minorities? If he is a minority are you just running with him to play the race card? With every action being made analyzed so intently for the motives, I think it must be pretty hard to get anyone to believe what your intents are, certainly to the opposing party that's searching for a less then pure motive. Hell, I'm about as liberal as they come, but if Powell ran I'd vote for him in a second because I know the guy can think.

[juanschwartz]

doesnt Kerry lay claim to being a catholic?....yet he is for abortion?....flip flop king
anyway, veritas, your actions prove you are not a devout R Catholic....actions speak louder than words.....now cuss and call me some more names and tell me you are.................just another observation on my part................(I can see the slam coming from a mile away)
wait, I apologize veritas....I forgot, there are catholic preist who like to fondle little alter boys , but yet they call themselves priests.......i see how it works now
Is it impossible for a man to have good morals based on Catholicism, but still NOT OPPRESS women by telling them what they can and can't do with their bodies and making them have a baby when they cannot possibly handle it. They're certainly not going to get any kind of realistic help from the governing body forcing them into having that baby. Besides, he’s running for President… not Pope. His religious believes don’t make a damn bit of difference because this is country is(or used to be) secular.

And you call him flip flop king like you know him personally. You've seen propaganda about that and eaten it up just like you did with that brilliant RNC tear jerking piece and now you're regurgitating it at everyone as gospel. The sad part about it is that the Republican Party could care less if you died tomorrow because you make less than $200,000 a year.

Myself… Democrat? Liberal? Neither. I don’t believe everything either one of those groups say. What I like to do is read between the lines and draw the conclusion for myself. You should try it some time.

/god please save me from your followers

[MuddyJEEP.com]

Is it impossible for a man to have good morals based on Catholicism, but still NOT OPPRESS women by telling them what they can and can't do with their bodies and making them have a baby when they cannot possibly handle it. They're certainly not going to get any kind of realistic help from the governing body forcing them into having that baby. Besides, he’s running for President… not Pope. His religious believes don’t make a damn bit of difference because this is country is(or used to be) secular.

And you call him flip flop king like you know him personally. You've seen propaganda about that and eaten it up just like you did with that brilliant RNC tear jerking piece and now you're regurgitating it at everyone as gospel. The sad part about it is that the Republican Party could care less if you died tomorrow because you make less than $200,000 a year.

Myself… Democrat? Liberal? Neither. I don’t believe everything either one of those groups say. What I like to do is read between the lines and draw the conclusion for myself. You should try it some time.

/god please save me from your followers
hehehehhee....you say that as if you think kerry hasnt been the flip flop king, whether I know him personally or not.....in fact, it was a nice point in Guillonis speach as well to quote kerry with " I voted for the war, shortly after I voted against it"....truth hurts I guess, but he is what he is, and it is a proven fact, I didnt make it up, I didnt cut and paste and send it to him.....he is the one that is acting so shifty on many subjects......not my doing at all.........
and did you watch the rnc last night?....how could you not say the singing of amazing grace wasnt a "gospel" moment praising our Lord and King Jesus Christ directly?....especially since there was a moment of silence for prayer right before hand and .....have you read the words of that song?.....yes, it was a "gospel" moment......seemd to be ok with the crowd there......and I agree with you on...May God help / save you.

[DJ®]

DJ...Read this article of political history of the Republican party and what it has done for African Americans...including it's first initiation agenda of combating slavery. In other words, ensuring the end of slavery through equal rights was the reason that the republican party was first formed.

Believe me....I know ALL about that......give me a little credit here.

Now if you look back at my original question......I asked what BUSH has done, not the Republican party.

[DJ®]

It must suck to be a politician...especialy with the whole race thing. If your running mate is white are you possibly ignoring more qualified minorities?

Let's be realistic here........no white politician has ever been criticized for picking a white running mate. If we ever had a black President, I bet his running mate would be white.....that doesn't make a difference to anyone.

[Morpheus]

BACK TO THE TOPIC!!!!

I'm going to try Muddy's "educate me" approach:

Why should I....a middle-class Black American....vote for George Bush?

What has he done for our community, or minorities in general?


Come on man… You really can’t be serious… You’re asking what the president has done for you, like it’s his job to make sure you do something with your life???


It’s not presidents bush’s job to come by your house, tell you to go to bed by a certain time, set your alarm clock, and then come back early in the morning to make you breakfast. No, that’s your job… I suppose you’d like him to come by every few days or so and write you a check too huh… You’re a big boy and it’s not society’s fault that you do not go out and get things for yourself. Wake up man, or life will really pass you by. Quit blaming your lack of success on everyone but yourself. Look in the paper today and you will find thousands and thousands of want ads. Everything is out there if you have the nuts to go get it. Come on man, just figure out what you want out of life and TAKE SOME ACTION to go get it. It really IS that simply.

Print this out and posted it on your refrigerator or something….

[DJ®]

BACK TO THE TOPIC!!!!




Come on man… You really can’t be serious… You’re asking what the president has done for you, like it’s his job to make sure you do something with your life???


It’s not presidents bush’s job to come by your house, tell you to go to bed by a certain time, set your alarm clock, and then come back early in the morning to make you breakfast. No, that’s your job… I suppose you’d like him to come by every few days or so and write you a check too huh… You’re a big boy and it’s not society’s fault that you do not go out and get things for yourself. Wake up man, or life will really pass you by. Quit blaming your lack of success on everyone but yourself. Look in the paper today and you will find thousands and thousands of want ads. Everything is out there if you have the nuts to go get it. Come on man, just figure out what you want out of life and TAKE SOME ACTION to go get it. It really IS that simply.

Print this out and posted it on your refrigerator or something….

What the hell are you yapping about? Your reply has NOTHING to do with what I'm talking about. Your response is to homeless man or something.....I don't know where you are coming from that.

I didn't ask "What Has Bush Done For Homeless People" :kekegay:

I also didn't ask what he has done for me personally either........so try again.

[DJ®]

Morpheus:

In case you need an example of what I'm talking about, read this article:

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/little_rock.htm

^^^ that goes to show how a President's decisions can effect the lives of Minorities.

It's not about handouts and free money like everyone keeps bringing up.....I could care less about that, I have a job and a successful life...I'm not looking for handouts from ANYONE.

BUT......I want to be sure that every President is prepared to defend the rights of minorities if they are challenged. All it takes is for one President to make a wrong decision and we are back to square one.

[juanschwartz]

hehehehhee....you say that as if you think kerry hasnt been the flip flop king, whether I know him personally or not.....in fact, it was a nice point in Guillonis speach as well to quote kerry with " I voted for the war, shortly after I voted against it"....truth hurts I guess, but he is what he is, and it is a proven fact, I didnt make it up, I didnt cut and paste and send it to him.....he is the one that is acting so shifty on many subjects......not my doing at all.........
and did you watch the rnc last night?....how could you not say the singing of amazing grace wasnt a "gospel" moment praising our Lord and King Jesus Christ directly?....especially since there was a moment of silence for prayer right before hand and .....have you read the words of that song?.....yes, it was a "gospel" moment......seemd to be ok with the crowd there......and I agree with you on...May God help / save you.
He voted for war based on information given to him by the administation. We all now know that Iraq did not in fact have WMDs, chemical weapon labs, or biological weapon labs. Now he regrets it.

If the Republican Party is a religious group who sings songs to their "Lord and King Jesus Christ directly", they really don't have any business making choices that effect my life. SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. There is a reason that was written in champ.

[juanschwartz]

I'd appreciate some more examples of Kerry "flip-flopping". It's obvious you just picked that up off of the fair and balanced news broadcasts... Here are some for you Muddy.

1. Social Security Surplus

BUSH PLEDGES NOT TO TOUCH SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS... "We're going to keep the promise of Social Security and keep the government from raiding the Social Security surplus." [President Bush, 3/3/01]

...BUSH SPENDS SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS The New York Times reported that "the president's new budget uses Social Security surpluses to pay for other programs every year through 2013, ultimately diverting more than $1.4 trillion in Social Security funds to other purposes." [The New York Times, 2/6/02]

2. Patient's Right to Sue

GOVERNOR BUSH VETOES PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "Despite his campaign rhetoric in favor of a patients' bill of rights, Bush fought such a bill tooth and nail as Texas governor, vetoing a bill coauthored by Republican state Rep. John Smithee in 1995. He... constantly opposed a patient's right to sue an HMO over coverage denied that resulted in adverse health effects." [Salon, 2/7/01]

...CANDIDATE BUSH PRAISES TEXAS PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "We're one of the first states that said you can sue an HMO for denying you proper coverage... It's time for our nation to come together and do what's right for the people. And I think this is right for the people. You know, I support a national patients' bill of rights, Mr. Vice President. And I want all people covered. I don't want the law to supersede good law like we've got in Texas." [Governor Bush, 10/17/00]

...PRESIDENT BUSH'S ADMINISTRATION ARGUES AGAINST RIGHT TO SUE "To let two Texas consumers, Juan Davila and Ruby R. Calad, sue their managed-care companies for wrongful denials of medical benefits ‘would be to completely undermine' federal law regulating employee benefits, Assistant Solicitor General James A. Feldman said at oral argument March 23. Moreover, the administration's brief attacked the policy rationale for Texas's law, which is similar to statutes on the books in nine other states." [Washington Post, 4/5/04]

3. Tobacco Buyout

BUSH SUPPORTS CURRENT TOBACCO FARMERS' QUOTA SYSTEM... "They've got the quota system in place -- the allotment system -- and I don't think that needs to be changed." [President Bush, 5/04]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION WILL SUPPORT FEDERAL BUYOUT OF TOBACCO QUOTAS "The administration is open to a buyout." [White House spokeswoman Jeanie Mamo, 6/18/04]

4. North Korea

BUSH WILL NOT OFFER NUCLEAR NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM... "We developed a bold approach under which, if the North addressed our long-standing concerns, the United States was prepared to take important steps that would have significantly improved the lives of the North Korean people. Now that North Korea's covert nuclear weapons program has come to light, we are unable to pursue this approach." [President's Statement, 11/15/02]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFERS NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM"Well, we will work to take steps to ease their political and economic isolation. So there would be -- what you would see would be some provisional or temporary proposals that would only lead to lasting benefit after North Korea dismantles its nuclear programs. So there would be some provisional or temporary efforts of that nature." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 6/23/04]

5. Abortion

BUSH SUPPORTS A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE... "Bush said he...favors leaving up to a woman and her doctor the abortion question." [The Nation, 6/15/00, quoting the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal, 5/78]

...BUSH OPPOSES A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE "I am pro-life." [Governor Bush, 10/3/00]

6. OPEC

BUSH PROMISES TO FORCE OPEC TO LOWER PRICES... "What I think the president ought to do [when gas prices spike] is he ought to get on the phone with the OPEC cartel and say we expect you to open your spigots...And the president of the United States must jawbone OPEC members to lower the price." [President Bush, 1/26/00]

...BUSH REFUSES TO LOBBY OPEC LEADERS With gas prices soaring in the United States at the beginning of 2004, the Miami Herald reported the president refused to "personally lobby oil cartel leaders to change their minds." [Miami Herald, 4/1/04]

7. Iraq Funding

BUSH SPOKESMAN DENIES NEED FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR THE REST OF 2004... "We do not anticipate requesting supplemental funding for '04" [White House Budget Director Joshua Bolton, 2/2/04]

...BUSH REQUESTS ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR IRAQ FOR 2004 "I am requesting that Congress establish a $25 billion contingency reserve fund for the coming fiscal year to meet all commitments to our troops." [President Bush, Statement by President, 5/5/04]

8. Condoleeza Rice Testimony

BUSH SPOKESMAN SAYS RICE WON'T TESTIFY AS 'A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE'... "Again, this is not her personal preference; this goes back to a matter of principle. There is a separation of powers issue involved here. Historically, White House staffers do not testify before legislative bodies. So it's a matter of principle, not a matter of preference." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 3/9/04]

...BUSH ORDERS RICE TO TESTIFY: "Today I have informed the Commission on Terrorist Attacks Against the United States that my National Security Advisor, Dr. Condoleezza Rice, will provide public testimony." [President Bush, 3/30/04]

9. Science

BUSH PLEDGES TO ISSUE REGULATIONS BASED ON SCIENCE..."I think we ought to have high standards set by agencies that rely upon science, not by what may feel good or what sounds good." [then-Governor George W. Bush, 1/15/00]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION REGULATIONS IGNORE SCIENCE "60 leading scientists—including Nobel laureates, leading medical experts, former federal agency directors and university chairs and presidents—issued a statement calling for regulatory and legislative action to restore scientific integrity to federal policymaking. According to the scientists, the Bush administration has, among other abuses, suppressed and distorted scientific analysis from federal agencies, and taken actions that have undermined the quality of scientific advisory panels." [Union of Concerned Scientists, 2/18/04]

10. Ahmed Chalabi

BUSH INVITES CHALABI TO STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS...President Bush also met with Chalabi during his brief trip to Iraq last Thanksgiving [White House Documents 1/20/04, 11/27/03]

...BUSH MILITARY ASSISTS IN RAID OF CHALABI'S HOUSE "U.S. soldiers raided the home of America's one-time ally Ahmad Chalabi on Thursday and seized documents and computers." [Washington Post, 5/20/04]

11. Department of Homeland Security

BUSH OPPOSES THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY..."So, creating a Cabinet office doesn't solve the problem. You still will have agencies within the federal government that have to be coordinated. So the answer is that creating a Cabinet post doesn't solve anything." [White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, 3/19/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY "So tonight, I ask the Congress to join me in creating a single, permanent department with an overriding and urgent mission: securing the homeland of America and protecting the American people." [President Bush, Address to the Nation, 6/6/02]

12. Weapons of Mass Destruction

BUSH SAYS WE FOUND THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION..."We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories...for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." [President Bush, Interview in Poland, 5/29/03]

...BUSH SAYS WE HAVEN'T FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION "David Kay has found the capacity to produce weapons.And when David Kay goes in and says we haven't found stockpiles yet, and there's theories as to where the weapons went. They could have been destroyed during the war. Saddam and his henchmen could have destroyed them as we entered into Iraq. They could be hidden. They could have been transported to another country, and we'll find out." [President Bush, Meet the Press, 2/7/04]

13. Free Trade

BUSH SUPPORTS FREE TRADE... "I believe strongly that if we promote trade, and when we promote trade, it will help workers on both sides of this issue." [President Bush in Peru, 3/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS RESTRICTIONS ON TRADE "In a decision largely driven by his political advisers, President Bush set aside his free-trade principles last year and imposed heavy tariffs on imported steel to help out struggling mills in Pennsylvania and West Virginia, two states crucial for his reelection." [Washington Post, 9/19/03]

14. Osama Bin Laden

BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]

...BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OSAMA "I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."[President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]

15. The Environment

BUSH SUPPORTS MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE... "[If elected], Governor Bush will work to...establish mandatory reduction targets for emissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide." [Bush Environmental Plan, 9/29/00]

...BUSH OPPOSES MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE "I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air Act." [President Bush, Letter to Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), 3/13/03]

[juanschwartz]

16. WMD Commission

BUSH RESISTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE... "The White House immediately turned aside the calls from Kay and many Democrats for an immediate outside investigation, seeking to head off any new wide-ranging election-year inquiry that might go beyond reports already being assembled by congressional committees and the Central Intelligence Agency." [NY Times, 1/29/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE "Today, by executive order, I am creating an independent commission, chaired by Governor and former Senator Chuck Robb, Judge Laurence Silberman, to look at American intelligence capabilities, especially our intelligence about weapons of mass destruction." [President Bush, 2/6/04]

17. Creation of the 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11." [CBS News, 5/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION "President Bush said today he now supports establishing an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." [ABC News, 09/20/02]

18. Time Extension for 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush and House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) have decided to oppose granting more time to an independent commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks." [Washington Post, 1/19/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION "The White House announced Wednesday its support for a request from the commission investigating the September 11, 2001 attacks for more time to complete its work." [CNN, 2/4/04]

19. One Hour Limit for 9/11 Commission Testimony

BUSH LIMITS TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF 9/11 COMMISSION TO ONE HOUR... "President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have placed strict limits on the private interviews they will grant to the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, saying that they will meet only with the panel's top two officials and that Mr. Bush will submit to only a single hour of questioning, commission members said Wednesday." [NY Times, 2/26/04]

...BUSH SETS NO TIMELIMIT FOR TESTIMONY "The president's going to answer all of the questions they want to raise. Nobody's watching the clock." [White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 3/10/04]

20. Gay Marriage

BUSH SAYS GAY MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... "The state can do what they want to do. Don't try to trap me in this state's issue like you're trying to get me into." [Gov. George W. Bush on Gay Marriage, Larry King Live, 2/15/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING GAY MARRIAGE "Today I call upon the Congress to promptly pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and wife." [President Bush, 2/24/04]

21. Nation Building

BUSH OPPOSES NATION BUILDING... "If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road." [Gov. George W. Bush, 10/3/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS NATION BUILDING "We will be changing the regime of Iraq, for the good of the Iraqi people." [President Bush, 3/6/03]

22. Saddam/al Qaeda Link

BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]

...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]

[GTI337]

the Democrats play the middle class minority card so much maybe you should ask what has have the Democrats done for you ..or maybe what will John Kerry-Hienz do for the middle class... like he gives a fuck :-/ ..he is just a nobody trying to win the election off of anti-bush support. no-body likes him or even cares about him .,.they just care that bush is out..i think this whole election is screwed. if the democrats dont have a descent candidate they shoud forfiet their place on the ballot..IMO..

[GTI337]

Now he regrets it.

.
what else will he regret doing because he is mis-informed... whose to say his advisors will be better than bush's, thats what that arguement boils down too...better safe than sorry i think..Saddam needed a gun to his head along time ago anyway.

[juanschwartz]

what else will he regret doing because he is mis-informed... whose to say his advisors will be better than bush's, thats what that arguement boils down too...better safe than sorry i think..Saddam needed a gun to his head along time ago anyway.
I agree with you that he was a bad person... However, please check out a book called "The Grand Chessboard". This book is almost gospel to Cheney as far as geopolitical strategies go. It was obvious we would have to take control of Eurasia in order to remain the worlds leading super-power, but Saddam was not even capable of threatening his neighbors, much less the United States.

Of course you would regret acting UNILATERALY on bad intelligence, unless of course you hold yourself infallible.

[Morpheus]

What the hell are you yapping about? Your reply has NOTHING to do with what I'm talking about. Your response is to homeless man or something.....I don't know where you are coming from that.

I also didn't ask what he has done for me personally either........so try again.


Um, you asked:

Why should I....a middle-class Black American....vote for George Bush?
What has he done for our community, or minorities in general?

I suppose you don’t consider yourself “I” to be in your group “our.” No? :-/
If that’s the case I really have nothing more to say to you.


My first post in your thread was basically trying to tell you that people who are self sufficient don’t going around constantly asking why no one else is taking care of them. They go out and take care of their selves.
Just look at all of the Asian and Arabic immigrants that come to the US and are successful in only a few short years. I know tons of them and to be honest, the only thing they ever bitch about are lazy people that live in a land of infinite possibilities and do nothing, yet want something. It’s a joke…

[GTI337]

I agree with you that he was a bad person... However, please check out a book called "The Grand Chessboard". This book is almost gospel to Cheney as far as geopolitical strategies go. It was obvious we would have to take control of Eurasia in order to remain the worlds leading super-power, but Saddam was not even capable of threatening his neighbors, much less the United States.

Of course you would regret acting UNILATERALY on bad intelligence, unless of course you hold yourself infallible.
all im saying is both kerry and bush were mis-informed but the difference is bush stands by his preventative decision..and kerry recants and fast as possible..thats not the someone i want running the country...i think everyone who thinks bush is so bad needs to just swallow their pride and keep him for another 4 years and maybe a worthy candidate will be nominated in 08..cuz Kerry is garbage

[Retali8]

Bush has done a lot for me...thats what is important. If I were you I'd go out and get information about each canidate and vote based on your own beliefs and opinions. The information that everyone gives you is not always accurate.

Bush has kept homeland safe ever since 9/11. I have a job....I have money...and my family is doing good. We look towards the president when something bad happens in our life....but we don't look towards him when something good happens.

[GTI337]

Bush has done a lot for me...thats what is important. If I were you I'd go out and get information about each canidate and vote based on your own beliefs and opinions. The information that everyone gives you is not always accurate.

Bush has kept homeland safe ever since 9/11. I have a job....I have money...and my family is doing good. We look towards the president when something bad happens in our life....but we don't look towards him when something good happens.
:D good stuff

[MuddyJEEP.com]

16. WMD Commission

BUSH RESISTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE... "The White House immediately turned aside the calls from Kay and many Democrats for an immediate outside investigation, seeking to head off any new wide-ranging election-year inquiry that might go beyond reports already being assembled by congressional committees and the Central Intelligence Agency." [NY Times, 1/29/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE "Today, by executive order, I am creating an independent commission, chaired by Governor and former Senator Chuck Robb, Judge Laurence Silberman, to look at American intelligence capabilities, especially our intelligence about weapons of mass destruction." [President Bush, 2/6/04]

17. Creation of the 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11." [CBS News, 5/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION "President Bush said today he now supports establishing an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." [ABC News, 09/20/02]

18. Time Extension for 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush and House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) have decided to oppose granting more time to an independent commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks." [Washington Post, 1/19/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION "The White House announced Wednesday its support for a request from the commission investigating the September 11, 2001 attacks for more time to complete its work." [CNN, 2/4/04]

19. One Hour Limit for 9/11 Commission Testimony

BUSH LIMITS TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF 9/11 COMMISSION TO ONE HOUR... "President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have placed strict limits on the private interviews they will grant to the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, saying that they will meet only with the panel's top two officials and that Mr. Bush will submit to only a single hour of questioning, commission members said Wednesday." [NY Times, 2/26/04]

...BUSH SETS NO TIMELIMIT FOR TESTIMONY "The president's going to answer all of the questions they want to raise. Nobody's watching the clock." [White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 3/10/04]

20. Gay Marriage

BUSH SAYS GAY MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... "The state can do what they want to do. Don't try to trap me in this state's issue like you're trying to get me into." [Gov. George W. Bush on Gay Marriage, Larry King Live, 2/15/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING GAY MARRIAGE "Today I call upon the Congress to promptly pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and wife." [President Bush, 2/24/04]

21. Nation Building

BUSH OPPOSES NATION BUILDING... "If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road." [Gov. George W. Bush, 10/3/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS NATION BUILDING "We will be changing the regime of Iraq, for the good of the Iraqi people." [President Bush, 3/6/03]

22. Saddam/al Qaeda Link

BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]

...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]
I am not gonna dig through those to see if they are factual, I did note some of the sources as those I would believe if I was to read them....job well done indeed.....

[MuddyJEEP.com]

all im saying is both kerry and bush were mis-informed but the difference is bush stands by his preventative decision..and kerry recants and fast as possible..thats not the someone i want running the country...i think everyone who thinks bush is so bad needs to just swallow their pride and keep him for another 4 years and maybe a worthy candidate will be nominated in 08..cuz Kerry is garbage
agreed.....I like bush, hes pro military and such,.....I have also stated I am open to sway my vote, but never to Kerry because of the reasons I mentioned previously....so, its not like I am trying to slam bush at yall, just against kerry for leader of OUR country

[Kaze]

16. WMD Commission

BUSH RESISTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE... "The White House immediately turned aside the calls from Kay and many Democrats for an immediate outside investigation, seeking to head off any new wide-ranging election-year inquiry that might go beyond reports already being assembled by congressional committees and the Central Intelligence Agency." [NY Times, 1/29/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE "Today, by executive order, I am creating an independent commission, chaired by Governor and former Senator Chuck Robb, Judge Laurence Silberman, to look at American intelligence capabilities, especially our intelligence about weapons of mass destruction." [President Bush, 2/6/04]

17. Creation of the 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11." [CBS News, 5/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION "President Bush said today he now supports establishing an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." [ABC News, 09/20/02]

18. Time Extension for 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush and House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) have decided to oppose granting more time to an independent commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks." [Washington Post, 1/19/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION "The White House announced Wednesday its support for a request from the commission investigating the September 11, 2001 attacks for more time to complete its work." [CNN, 2/4/04]

19. One Hour Limit for 9/11 Commission Testimony

BUSH LIMITS TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF 9/11 COMMISSION TO ONE HOUR... "President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have placed strict limits on the private interviews they will grant to the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, saying that they will meet only with the panel's top two officials and that Mr. Bush will submit to only a single hour of questioning, commission members said Wednesday." [NY Times, 2/26/04]

...BUSH SETS NO TIMELIMIT FOR TESTIMONY "The president's going to answer all of the questions they want to raise. Nobody's watching the clock." [White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 3/10/04]

20. Gay Marriage

BUSH SAYS GAY MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... "The state can do what they want to do. Don't try to trap me in this state's issue like you're trying to get me into." [Gov. George W. Bush on Gay Marriage, Larry King Live, 2/15/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING GAY MARRIAGE "Today I call upon the Congress to promptly pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and wife." [President Bush, 2/24/04]

21. Nation Building

BUSH OPPOSES NATION BUILDING... "If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road." [Gov. George W. Bush, 10/3/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS NATION BUILDING "We will be changing the regime of Iraq, for the good of the Iraqi people." [President Bush, 3/6/03]

22. Saddam/al Qaeda Link

BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]

...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]

Where'd you find this info? :D

[DJ®]

Um, you asked:

Why should I....a middle-class Black American....vote for George Bush?
What has he done for our community, or minorities in general?

I suppose you don’t consider yourself “I” to be in your group “our.” No? :-/
If that’s the case I really have nothing more to say to you.


Yes I said "I" because I want to know what He has done for the community to deserve "MY" vote.........pretty simple, you are confusing yourself.

My first post in your thread was basically trying to tell you that people who are self sufficient don’t going around constantly asking why no one else is taking care of them. They go out and take care of their selves.
Just look at all of the Asian and Arabic immigrants that come to the US and are successful in only a few short years. I know tons of them and to be honest, the only thing they ever bitch about are lazy people that live in a land of infinite possibilities and do nothing, yet want something. It’s a joke…

That's all good and dandy.......but I am speaking from a black middle class perspective, and we hold the same values of the groups you mentioned. I already told you my question has nothing to do with "handouts" that you keep talking about.........so I don't know what you are getting at???? I guess you didn't read that article I linked in my last reply.

[juanschwartz]

Yes I said "I" because I want to know what He has done for the community to deserve "MY" vote.........pretty simple, you are confusing yourself.



That's all good and dandy.......but I am speaking from a black middle class perspective, and we hold the same values of the groups you mentioned. I already told you my question has nothing to do with "handouts" that you keep talking about.........so I don't know what you are getting at???? I guess you didn't read that article I linked in my last reply.
What has the Black upper class done for the black middle class? Sold them rap CDs? I don't think anyone should get special treatment. What have you done for your community lately?

[DJ®]

I don't think anyone should get special treatment.

Again, for the 6th or 7th time..........that's not what I'm talking about.

Sticking up for peoples rights to make sure they are treated equally does not mean giving special treatment.

So you are telling me when Presidents endorsed Hate Crime Laws......or Civil Rights laws (or enforced them, like in 1957 with Little Rock Schools) that's giving special treatment?????

What have you done for your community lately?

A lot........for example: I've been a mentor to lots of younger folks to help them get jobs, get scholarships......pick schools out. Basically be a role model to show them that what their peers are doing wont get them anywhere in life.

[juanschwartz]

Again, for the 6th or 7th time..........that's not what I'm talking about.

Sticking up for peoples rights to make sure they are treated equally does not mean giving special treatment.

So you are telling me when Presidents endorsed Hate Crime Laws......or Civil Rights laws (or enforced them, like in 1957 with Little Rock Schools) that's giving special treatment?????
Affirmative Action, Minority only scholarships and grants. These are the things I am talking about that seem more like handouts than logical answers to problems.

As far as being treated equally, I think that has come a long way. We've moved further away from RACISM and have moved more towards CULTURISM as the american melting pot has simmered over the last 50 or so years.

[DJ®]

Affirmative Action, Minority only scholarships and grants. These are the things I am talking about that seem more like handouts than logical answers to problems.

I understand what you are saying..........but that's not what I'm wanting examples of from the President.

As far as being treated equally, I think that has come a long way. We've moved further away from RACISM and have moved more towards CULTURISM as the american melting pot has simmered over the last 50 or so years.

Yes, we have come a long way.........but racism still exists, and at higher levels then others in some parts of the country. The move towards culturalism has mostly occurred in urban areas.

[MuddyJEEP.com]

I understand what you are saying..........but that's not what I'm wanting examples of from the President.



Yes, we have come a long way.........but racism still exists, and at higher levels then others in some parts of the country.
DJ, you gotta know those bigots that go by the names of Jesse jackson, Al Sharpton and Quannel x create a lot of the racism....I seriously feel they breed the hatred and racism in todays black youth and its totally uncalled for....kids dont have a racist bone in their body when they are born.....it is learned from their parents and these idiots that claim to speak for all of the black race.....if they would stop, the world would truly be a better place...even without the politicians help....they need to start there...I strongly feel todays youth are getting past the racism, but its hard for them when its slammed on them.......I remember way back when ....when the , I think it was a big wig in the Texaco company made some racial statement of sorts, I dunno what was said, but the naacp and sheila jackson lee and jackson and sharpton....they were all calling for his resignation...all well and good, but when they, in the same sentence say they feel the position should be filled with a "person of color"...thats racism and its ok for them....HYPOCRITES the lot.......I stayed up late writing everybody I could and let them know how I felt about what they said and asked why the color of one should be of concern....why not a qualified person?...who gives a rats ass what color you are...we are one country and should be united...not divided by race , creed, color etc etc etc.......so, same answer from me as my earlier posts....why should the polititions address color or race?...why not a country for the people, all benfits and rulings should be good for one and all peoples combined.

funny thing is...not one of them (those listed above) answered me with a response

[DJ®]

funny thing is...not one of them (those listed above) answered me with a response

Ok, you act like all black people, including myself.....worship and support those 3 individuals......

I don't support or agree with Jackson, Sharpton, or Lee, so what do those folks have to do with what I'm talking about?

If you want to do some research, look up Cornel West of Harvard, I agree with some of his ideals.

[MuddyJEEP.com]

Ok, you act like all black people, including myself.....worship and support those 3 individuals......well I don't, so what do those folks have to do with what I'm talking about?
I never at all said yo worship them...read it again.....they claim to speak for the black population and you know they do........crap, you know I never said you feel as they do, who knows how you feel but you .....and it was posted to state and if you would read it again, it stated ,,.......why should a politician cater to a certain minority group, and thats what you asked with your original question, why should they cater to your group, my group anybodies group.....henceforth alienating another group...what part of that did you not read.....my question to you is WHY?...all the while knowing it in itself is a form of rasicm against any other group....be it old white people, young indians, middle aged blacks....all anybody....why does there have to be a difference of programs to get your vote...what sounds bad about all peoples being equal?
and no research needed on my part...I never said there were not any educated peoples, again, color does not matter that you follow or admire...what DOES THAT have to do with anything?

[DJ®]

why should a politician cater to a certain minority group, and thats what you asked with your original question, why should they cater to your group, my group anybodies group.....henceforth alienating another group...what part of that did you not read.....my question to you is WHY?

Again, I never asked "How Has Bush Catered To _________".

I don't want the President to "cater" to anybody.

You can do things for groups that effect everyone equally. Like when Clinton supported revisions to Hate Crime laws.....eventhough it was done with Homosexuals in mind......it also provided tougher penaltys for Hate Crimes committed against ANYONE regardless of race or sexual preference. But is that still catering to Gays? No!


why does there have to be a difference of programs to get your vote...what sounds bad about all peoples being equal?

Simple. Sometimes, certain groups need special programs just so they CAN be treated equally. If actions weren't taken by Presidents for minorities in the 50's and 60's........imagine what things would be like now. :eek3:

[MuddyJEEP.com]

Again, I never asked "How Has Bush Catered To _________".

I don't want the President to "cater" to anybody.

You can do things for groups that effect everyone equally. Like when Clinton supported revisions to Hate Crime laws.....eventhough it was done with Homosexuals in mind......it also provided tougher penaltys for Hate Crimes committed against ANYONE regardless of race or sexual preference. But is that still catering to Gays? No!




Simple. Sometimes, certain groups need special programs just so they CAN be treated equally. If actions weren't taken by Presidents for minorities in the 50's and 60's........imagine what things would be like now. :eek3:
my my my........its ok for certain groups and not for others....please read what you yourself are writing and I'm done.....there will be no reasoning at all it seems :-/

your original question:
Why should I....a middle-class Black American....vote for George Bush?

What has he done for our community, or minorities in general?

[DJ®]

my my my........its ok for certain groups and not for others....please read what you yourself are writing and I'm done.....there will be no reasoning at all it seems :-/


That's because you are taking my question out of context.......

Answer me this:

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/little_rock.htm

^^^ is that catering to black people?

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/04/06/hate.crimes/

^^^ is that catering to homosexuals?

[stretch-d]

Believe me....I know ALL about that......give me a little credit here.

Now if you look back at my original question......I asked what BUSH has done, not the Republican party.

Ok DJ...Here's one big one for you--and the source.:)

http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=bush+programs+for+minorities&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D4 d8a85b01d80414b%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery% 3Dbush%2Bprograms%2Bfor%2Bminorities%26clickedItem URN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fusgovinfo.about.com%252Fl ibrary%252Fweekly%252Faa061902a.htm%26invocationTy pe%3D-%26fromPage%3DNSBoom%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fusgovinfo.about.com%2Flibr ary%2Fweekly%2Faa061902a.htm

..and since I answered your question, I will ask you one: Can you name one thing that Kerry has done in his entire 20 year senate history that meets the criteria of your original question?

[DJ®]

Ok DJ...Here's one big one for you--and the source.:)

http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=bush+programs+for+minorities&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D4 d8a85b01d80414b%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery% 3Dbush%2Bprograms%2Bfor%2Bminorities%26clickedItem URN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fusgovinfo.about.com%252Fl ibrary%252Fweekly%252Faa061902a.htm%26invocationTy pe%3D-%26fromPage%3DNSBoom%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fusgovinfo.about.com%2Flibr ary%2Fweekly%2Faa061902a.htm

Thank you for answering my question..........that's all I wanted. I wish there was more then one example.......but considering that no one else was able to answer it....it's all good.

Good example though.

..and since I answered your question, I will ask you one: Can you name one thing that Kerry has done in his entire 20 year senate history that meets the criteria of your original question?

Hate Crimes
Senator Kerry is an original cosponsor of legislation to expand hate crimes, because standing law has proven inadequate in the protection of many victimized groups. This legislation protects all Americans and ensures equal justice for all victims of hate violence, regardless of their race, religion, sexual orientation, national origin, gender, or disability.

Racial Profiling
Senator Kerry is strongly opposed to the practice of racial profiling and is an original cosponsor of legislation to prohibit racial profiling, establish remedies for its victims and provide funds for police training and other programs to strengthen accountability and community relations. After September 11, it is more important than ever that the nation's laws are enforced without resort to discrimination.

Census
Senator Kerry has fought hard to ensure that the 2000 Census accounts for all people living in the United States. He urged Secretary of Commerce, Donald Evans to use adjusted numbers to calculate federal funding and intrastate redistricting and convened a hearing within the Commerce Committee to explore releasing adjusted data. It is estimated that three million individuals, mostly minorities and low-income individuals, will not be included in the census count if only the raw, uncorrected data is used. The census count has an impact on hundreds of federal programs, including Head Start, airport improvements, and HIV emergency relief programs. The millions of people who rely on these and many other programs will be shortchanged if the best, most accurate census figures are not used.

Election Reform
Senator Kerry believes that we need serious, comprehensive election reform. In the wake of the voting irregularities that surrounded the 2000 Presidential election, American's have scrutinized the election system and have discovered that all too often it fails to ensure that every American who chooses to exercise his or her right to vote is able to do so. Senator Kerry introduced legislation to make election day a federal holiday. There are examples from across the country of individuals who tried to vote, but faced with long lines and extended delays at polling places, had to give up and return to work before they had the opportunity to cast their ballots. Senator Kerry is working to include his proposal in comprehensive election reform legislation.

Gay and Lesbian Issues
With a 100% rating from the Human Rights Campaign, Senator Kerry is a powerful voice in the ongoing fight for civil rights for gays and lesbians.

here's some more things:

http://kerry.senate.gov/bandwidth/cfm/gen-issues.cfm?header_graphic=i/header_Press.gif&topic=Press&topic2=Civil%20Rights


It's not impressive, but it's something.

[stretch-d]

Hate Crimes
Senator Kerry is an original cosponsor of legislation to expand hate crimes, because standing law has proven inadequate in the protection of many victimized groups. This legislation protects all Americans and ensures equal justice for all victims of hate violence, regardless of their race, religion, sexual orientation, national origin, gender, or disability.

"Expand hate crimes"? I think we have a mis-print here... :D


It's not impressive, but it's something.

You're right...but something is better than nothing.

[DJ®]

"Expand hate crimes"? I think we have a mis-print here... :D


Yeah, they also mispelled Massachusetts......if you look at the top of the website window :kekegay:

Oh well.........

[stretch-d]

Yeah, they also mispelled Massachusetts......if you look at the top of the website window :kekegay:

Oh well.........

Your response is legitimate regardless.

So do you think that what Bush has done is more significant?

[DJ®]

Your response is legitimate regardless.

So do you think that what Bush has done is more significant?

Not really more significant when you compare to Kerry, that's only one thing you listed.......but it is a significant issue in itself.

If you had a more expansive list that I could compare side by side, then I could give you a more accurate answer.

[OneArmedScissor]

sure, but my religion doesnt influence how i vote.


and THAT is why I like you :)