View Full Version : Hows this for Patriotism ?
MuddyJEEP.com
08-26-2004, 09:34 PM
This is the cover of the John Kerry book he wrote......and this guy wants to be our president?
this cover is a spoof on the WWII vets who raised the flag on Iwo-Jima......he has a bunch o' hippys raising the flag upside down......
http://upload.houston-imports.com/uploaded/TNS_Dustjacket.jpg
you can do a google search for John Kerry's "The New Soldier"....get adobe and read up on how this guy really feels.......do your research before voting please....ask your folks how they feel about this photo.....I'll bet it pisses off even the most die hard Democrats :yeahno:
AmginE
08-26-2004, 09:35 PM
This is the cover of the John Kerry book he wrote......and this guy wants to be our president?
this cover is a spoof on the WWII vets who raised the flag on Iwo-Jima......he has a bunch o' hippys raising the flag upside down......
http://upload.houston-imports.com/uploaded/TNS_Dustjacket.jpg
you can do a google search for John Kerry's "The New Soldier"....get adobe and read up on how this guy really feels.......do your research before voting please....ask your folks how they feel about this photo.....I'll bet it pisses off even the most die hard Democrats :yeahno:
not who you like.. who you hate the least.
not who you like.. who you hate the least.
best. quote. ever.
I would hope you guys know that raising the US flag upside down symbolizes the nation being in trouble. In this case, during Vietnam.
Soup147652
08-26-2004, 09:38 PM
best. quote. ever.
I would hope you guys know that raising the US flag upside down symbolizes the nation being in trouble. In this case, during Vietnam.
:wrd:
best. quote. ever.
I would hope you guys know that raising the US flag upside down symbolizes the nation being in trouble. In this case, during Vietnam.
Took the words out of my fuckin mouth :thumb:
That's the first thing that went through my head when I looked at the picture......
best. quote. ever.
I would hope you guys know that raising the US flag upside down symbolizes the nation being in trouble. In this case, during Vietnam.
Shut up.
Mobil1
08-26-2004, 09:40 PM
best. quote. ever.
I would hope you guys know that raising the US flag upside down symbolizes the nation being in trouble. In this case, during Vietnam.still a somewhat disrespectful image though. but seriously, it was a long time ago, and people do and say some wild things when theyre young.
i dont take anything he did back then that seriously, just like i dont take dubya's past substance abuse issues very seriously. kids will be kids.
pry deep enough in to anyones past and youre bound to find something thats not very pretty.
MuddyJEEP.com
08-26-2004, 09:41 PM
best. quote. ever.
I would hope you guys know that raising the US flag upside down symbolizes the nation being in trouble. In this case, during Vietnam.
do they look like they were in distress?! Were they on a battlefeild signling for help? you know what they were trying to say.......
In the cover photo that ridicules the Marine Corps Memorial, one of Kerry's cronies is tugging on our flag, which is hung upside down as the ultimate symbol of sedition and treachery to all veterans who rallied behind our flag in battle. On the day of that shameful photograph and with its mass circulation on the cover of The New Soldier, at least 6,821 Marines who died at Iwo Jima turned over in their graves.
BTW.............
Bottom line: Kerry went to war, Bush didn't.....even Clinton didn't
Bold bottom line: Who gives a fuck about who went to Cambodia and how many bandaids they needed when they got hurt.....no one really cares.
Double bold bottom line: The average middle class American is surviving, not thriving. The average American has either lost a job in the last 4 years or has someone close to them who has.
Economy is going to decide this election amoungst the Middle Class who make up majority of the voting population. Economy........not Terrorism, not Vietnam war records.
On the day of that shameful photograph and with its mass circulation on the cover of The New Soldier, at least 6,821 Marines who died at Iwo Jima turned over in their graves.
Source?
do they look like they were in distress?! Were they on a battlefeild signling for help? you know what they were trying to say.......
In the cover photo that ridicules the Marine Corps Memorial, one of Kerry's cronies is tugging on our flag, which is hung upside down as the ultimate symbol of sedition and treachery to all veterans who rallied behind our flag in battle. On the day of that shameful photograph and with its mass circulation on the cover of The New Soldier, at least 6,821 Marines who died at Iwo Jima turned over in their graves.
They don't have to be in distress to fly a flag upside down, you just need to be in a time of distress.
People are digging deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep to find stupid ass reasons to hate Kerry; your hyperbole is just proving that. He was against Vietnam, who cares now? He at least went to Vietnam. But even then it was 30 years ago.
His actions during Vietnam aren't going to make the economy any stronger/weaker, and they aren't going make the states any more/less safe today. In fact, it doesn't effect my life in the least today.
So, who cares?
Shut up.
I was wondering what happened to your fanboy ass.
DarkEntity
08-26-2004, 09:48 PM
That's a slap in the face to everyone who has served and died in Vietnam.
How can anyone support a person who has thrown his medals back at the White House?
...and wants to be our president? :yeahno:
concretslider
08-26-2004, 09:48 PM
BTW.............
Bottom line: Kerry went to war, Bush didn't.....even Clinton didn't
.
OMG just shakes head OMG
MuddyJEEP.com
08-26-2004, 09:48 PM
BTW.............
Bottom line: Kerry went to war, Bush didn't.....even Clinton didn't
Bold bottom line: Who gives a fuck about who went to Cambodia and how many bandaids they needed when they got hurt.....no one really cares.
Double bold bottom line: The average middle class American is surviving, not thriving. The average American has either lost a job in the last 4 years or has someone close to them who has.
Economy is going to decide this election amoungst the Middle Class who make up majority of the voting population. Economy........not Terrorism, not Vietnam war records.
Bottom line is, the degredation of our economy was done under the democratic leadership of Clinton........Bush inherited the woes and as you and I both know.,...the economy is coming back, fact.....slow, but coming back none the less.....I know the last 4 have sucked, but I have also sen the turn of our economy........
I wouldnt at all mind kerry for pres if I thought he might have done some sort of good as a senator for 19 years......what health care inititive as he proposed in the 19 years.....answer...none.......what econmic policy has he tried to initiate in the past 19 years....answer...none.....crap, just help me to understand and please educate me....what has he done for us in the 19 years as a US Senator?....show me please
concretslider
08-26-2004, 09:50 PM
Bottom line is, the degredation of our economy was done under the democratic leadership of Clinton........Bush inherited the woes and as you and I both know.,...the economy is coming back, fact.....slow, but coming back none the less.....I know the last 4 have sucked, but I have also sen the turn of our economy........
I wouldnt at all mind kerry for pres if I thought he might have done some sort of good as a senator for 19 years......what health care inititive as he proposed in the 19 years.....answer...none.......what econmic policy has he tried to initiate in the past 19 years....answer...none.....crap, just help me to understand and please educate me....what has he done for us in the 19 years as a US Senator?....show me please
:D
Bottom line is, the degredation of our economy was done under the democratic leadership of Clinton........Bush inherited the woes and as you and I both know.,...the economy is coming back, fact.....slow, but coming back none the less.....I know the last 4 have sucked, but I have also sen the turn of our economy........
I wouldnt at all mind kerry for pres if I thought he might have done some sort of good as a senator for 19 years......what health care inititive as he proposed in the 19 years.....answer...none.......what econmic policy has he tried to initiate in the past 19 years....answer...none.....crap, just help me to understand and please educate me....what has he done for us in the 19 years as a US Senator?....show me please
wrong, pick up an economy book
If the economy had been screwed by Clinton then why didn't Bush fix it in a year? You are going to say 9/11. I'll ask why 9/11 is effecting us 3 years later, it isn't.
economic cycles :eh:
I was wondering what happened to your fanboy ass.
Chillin' out at the Batman boards. I wish I were lying. :hs:
Chillin' out at the Batman boards. I wish I was lying. :hs:
fanboy :o
either way, I've made it a point to keep out of political debates since no one really ever raises a point
believe what you want to
If you want to think that Kerry's actions during Vietnam effect us today, thats up to you :thumb:
Honestly, I'm voting on the basis of who has the best hairdo. So far, Bush has really impressed me. :)
concretslider
08-26-2004, 09:53 PM
Honestly, I'm voting on the basis of who has the best hairdo. So far, Bush has really impressed me. :)
WTF LOL
Mobil1
08-26-2004, 09:55 PM
Honestly, I'm voting on the basis of who has the best hairdo. So far, Bush has really impressed me. :)yeah but the kerry campaign has more hair.
dick cheney could be a real handicap for bush.
MuddyJEEP.com
08-26-2004, 09:55 PM
Honestly, I'm voting on the basis of who has the best hairdo. So far, Bush has really impressed me. :)
BWAHAHAHAHAHA......ok.....ROFL's deluxe :thumb: ...damn...wheres the smiley with the Elvis "doo" when ya need it!
MuddyJEEP.com
08-26-2004, 09:57 PM
fanboy :o
either way, I've made it a point to keep out of political debates since no one really ever raises a point
believe what you want to
If you want to think that Kerry's actions during Vietnam effect us today, thats up to you :thumb:
ok...lets call it the actions of a "crazy kid"...and leave it behind us...lets get to the present, or....what has he done in his senatorial career to help us?.....not hating...I just wanna know...serious....do the research and show me wrong
yeah but the kerry campaign has more hair.
dick cheney could be a real handicap for bush.
regardless, their hairstyles in the 70s is what really matters today
........Bush inherited the woes and as you and I both know.,...
Asking for 87 billion dollars extra to fight a war we shouldn't have even been in, certainly doesn't help our economy.
Making our Middle East suppliers of oil hate us even more then they already did, doesn't help the economy.
An Administration that has wasted more money then any other, doesn't help the economy.
As far as Kerry's Senate record, sure it's not the best........but he's one of the few Senators to be an official nominee for President so who are you comparing him to? Bush was never a Senator, so how can you compare the two on voting records? I can only imagine a "Senator Bush" voting record :kekegay: it would probably be even more of a joke.....actually I can't even picture Bush as a Senator.
Cpt. Krunk
08-26-2004, 10:02 PM
I gave myself a Boo-Boo, now give me a Purple Heart. :eyesjack:
ok...lets call it the actions of a "crazy kid"...and leave it behind us...lets get to the present, or....what has he done in his senatorial career to help us?.....not hating...I just wanna know...serious....do the research and show me wrong
I can't even think of one thing that any senator has done to ever help anyone other than themselves.
In fact I can't even name one thing that any senator that turned into a president ever did as a senator.
I'm having a hard time even thinking of presidents who were Senators then turned into Presidents. The only that I can think of is Kennedy.
What did Senator Kennedy do? Drink? Nail Monroe? No that was as president.
MuddyJEEP.com
08-26-2004, 10:05 PM
Asking for 87 billion dollars extra to fight a war we shouldn't have even been in, certainly doesn't help our economy.
dude, they came to us and killed 3,000+ people...Bush didnt do that...we had to go and get them for it....should we have just sat around and wait for more...please.....
Making our Middle East suppliers of oil hate us even more then they already did, doesn't help the economy.
again, hate us because we feel the need to protect whats ours and our people?...if they are pissed at that...so what?...
An Administration that has wasted more money then any other, doesn't help the economy.
you say wasted like the money spent on the war....we just plain had to do it.....I mean, what else was there to do?...call 'em via the phone and ask....."hello, uh....are you guys gonna stop with that crap or what!?"....."we just wanna know, 'cause it hurts.......Hows about we have tea and talk about it?"
As far as Kerry's Senate record, sure it's not the best........but he's one of the few Senators to be an official nominee for President so who are you comparing him to? Bush was never a Senator, so how can you compare the two on voting records? I can only imagine a "Senator Bush" voting record :kekegay: it would probably be even more of a joke.
but Kerry IS a senator and did nothing with it!.....PROVEN.......fact as you state it should be that he is a senator and has done wonders, but actually he has voted against every military bill ever thought of..........again, please research and comment on facts, cause I am seriously wanting to learn more about this.....
Mobil1
08-26-2004, 10:07 PM
What did Senator Kennedy do? Drink? Nail Monroe? No that was as president.lucky bastard...
lol, then he had her killed. :kekegay:
lucky bastard...
lol, then he had her killed. :kekegay:
then he got shot in the head
and the thigh
and the hand
and crazy ass people think that aliens did it
Mobil1
08-26-2004, 10:08 PM
regardless, their hairstyles in the 70s is what really matters todayobviously. why else would people be so interested in the candidates past if not to find out who had the best hair?
MuddyJEEP.com
08-26-2004, 10:08 PM
I can't even think of one thing that any senator has done to ever help anyone other than themselves.
In fact I can't even name one thing that any senator that turned into a president ever did as a senator.
I'm having a hard time even thinking of presidents who were Senators then turned into Presidents. The only that I can think of is Kennedy.
What did Senator Kennedy do? Drink? Nail Monroe? No that was as president.
cant argue/ dabate with that :roflmao:
Mobil1
08-26-2004, 10:09 PM
then he got shot in the head
and the thigh
and the hand
and crazy ass people think that aliens did itsame aliens struck again on 9/11. with their crazy magic bullets and....757s....
same aliens struck again on 9/11. with their crazy magic bullets and....757s....
fucking terrorist aliens
Mobil1
08-26-2004, 10:12 PM
fucking terrorist aliensdont even think about denouncing them man...they can read your thoughts.
dont even think about denouncing them man...they can read your thoughts.
I'm hoping that by calling the aliens terrorists Bush will send me $78 billion.
IT IS FOR YOUR SAFETY! DO YOU HATE AMERICA SO MUCH YOU WOULDN'T GIVE ME $78 BILLION?!
but Kerry IS a senator and did nothing with it!.....PROVEN.......fact as you state it should be that he is a senator and has done wonders, but actually he has voted against every military bill ever thought of..........again, please research and comment on facts, cause I am seriously wanting to learn more about this.....
Saddam Hussein didn't order any attacks on the US last time I checked.........so no, we should not have gone to war with them.
If that 87 billion had gone to catching Bin Laden and he was caught by now.....I would be ALL for that.
As far as the Middle East hating us......they have reason to be in regards to Iraq. But most were in support of us catching Bin Laden and stopping the Taliban......but Iraq? come on man, they all knew that was BS and with good reason.
Again with Kerry...........unless Bush was a Senator with a voting record that you can compare his, the arguement isn't worth arguing, because who knows what a fool Bush would act as a Senator.
Mobil1
08-26-2004, 10:14 PM
I'm hoping that by calling the aliens terrorists Bush will send me $78 billion.
IT IS FOR YOUR SAFETY! DO YOU HATE AMERICA SO MUCH YOU WOULDN'T GIVE ME $78 BILLION?!how do you plan to spend the $78 billion?
women? cars? nukular weapons?
This is the cover of the John Kerry book he wrote......and this guy wants to be our president?
this cover is a spoof on the WWII vets who raised the flag on Iwo-Jima......he has a bunch o' hippys raising the flag upside down......
http://upload.houston-imports.com/uploaded/TNS_Dustjacket.jpg
those "hippys" are all Vietnam War Veterans. You know, the war that Bush, Cheney, DeLay, and Limbaugh dodged.
how do you plan to spend the $78 billion?
women? cars? nukular weapons?
I will secure an outpost somewhere in the Caribbean where hot women will massage me all day long... with their tounges.
It is for the safety of America.
Mobil1
08-26-2004, 10:18 PM
I will secure an outpost somewhere in the Caribbean where hot women will massage me all day long... with their tounges.
It is for the safety of America.
fucking alien terrorists!
Cpt. Krunk
08-26-2004, 10:19 PM
Did you guys hear about Kerry going to Burger King or something and tried to shake these Vietnam Veterans, and they refused to shake his hand? That's awesome. Boo Ya!
fucking alien terrorists!
Cthulhu hates them all.
Nyarlathotep is partial to them.
http://upload.houston-imports.com/uploaded/awol2222.jpg
Mobil1
08-26-2004, 10:28 PM
Cthulhu hates them all.
Nyarlathotep is partial to them.typical political bull shit, just 'partial' doesnt cut it. take a firm stance or no stance at all.
http://upload.houston-imports.com/uploaded/awol33334444.jpg
None of it matters..........the Election results are pretty much set:
Bush will win the Popular Vote and Kerry will win the Electoral Vote.........check this thread on November 3rd.
People's minds aren't going to change much between now and then unless another attack happens or Bin Laden is caught.
So I really don't care........I'm just waiting....the writing is all over the wall.
[/thread]
Mobil1
08-26-2004, 10:31 PM
None of it matters..........the Election results are pretty much set:
Bush will win the Popular Vote and Kerry will win the Electoral Vote.........check this thread on November 3rd.
So I really don't care........I'm just waiting....the writing is all over the wall.
[/thread]what makes you say that?
most polls currently show kerry leading.
what makes you say that?
most polls currently show kerry leading.
Yeah, but within the Margin of Error..........besides, I did say Kerry would win the Electoral vote. I don't pay much mind to the national polls, I pay more attention to activity in the battleground states.
Check it out this site......it backs up my predictions:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
I have a feeling that California is going to be 04's "Florida"
I have a feeling that California is going to be 04's "Florida"
http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=853
PissYellowGTi
08-26-2004, 10:47 PM
I would have been against drafting and sending troops to Vietnam too. Only thing is, Kerry actually got off his ass and went, did his time. Then came back and took the time to protest. Our country has been in shame ever since the occassion, so how do you go about shining any positive light on it?
Cpt. Krunk
08-26-2004, 10:51 PM
I would have been against drafting and sending troops to Vietnam too. Only thing is, Kerry actually got off his ass and went, did his time. Then came back and took the time to protest. Our country has been in shame ever since the occassion, so how do you go about shining any positive light on it?
Kerry didn't do his time. He came back a lot early than what you're supposed to go for. I forgot when he came back, but I know the mininum was 7 months. If I recall correctly.
Kerry didn't do his time. He came back a lot early than what you're supposed to go for. I forgot when he came back, but I know the mininum was 7 months. If I recall correctly.
Did he go?
Kerry didn't do his time. He came back a lot early than what you're supposed to go for. I forgot when he came back, but I know the mininum was 7 months. If I recall correctly.
he had the audacity to get purple hearts and a bronze star.
While Bush was getting arrested for DWI.
After he has dodged the draft.
Cpt. Krunk
08-26-2004, 10:58 PM
Yeah. He also came back and protested against vietnam saying we were Baby Killers. But for some reason, he tries to salute to the Vietnam Veterans, yet he called them Baby Killers? :yeahno:
Cpt. Krunk
08-26-2004, 10:59 PM
he had the audacity to get purple hearts and a bronze star.
While Bush was getting arrested for DWI.
After he has dodged the draft.
Kerry APPLIED for the purple hearts. He threw a gernade that was too close, the shrapnel came back and gave him a nick on the arm. I say we give him 16 purple hearts. :thumb:
Yeah. He also came back and protested against vietnam saying we were Baby Killers. But for some reason, he tries to salute to the Vietnam Veterans, yet he called them Baby Killers? :yeahno:
provide a link with that direct quote.
and don't provide what the media has been playing all week, which is testimony he read from other vietnam vets who had attended a meeting.
Bush couldn't go to that meeting since he was AWOL and probably drunk.
Kerry APPLIED for the purple hearts. He threw a gernade that was too close, the shrapnel came back and gave him a nick on the arm. I say we give him 16 purple hearts. :thumb:
so the Navy is wrong
the people who were in the boat with him are wrong.
The people who have been proven to be lying are right?
Cpt. Krunk
08-26-2004, 11:09 PM
provide a link with that direct quote.
and don't provide what the media has been playing all week, which is testimony he read from other vietnam vets who had attended a meeting.
Bush couldn't go to that meeting since he was AWOL and probably drunk.
Here you go, Chuck. Pick one, any one.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=John+Kerry+Baby+Killers&btnG=Google+Search
Here you go, Chuck. Pick one, any one.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=John+Kerry+Baby+Killers&btnG=Google+Search
no. give me a direct quote.
full context.
Yeah. He also came back and protested against vietnam saying we were Baby Killers. But for some reason, he tries to salute to the Vietnam Veterans, yet he called them Baby Killers? :yeahno:
Say what you want, wont change the outcome: Bush wins popular vote....loses Electoral vote.
further:
http://www.loslounge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2834
Cpt. Krunk
08-26-2004, 11:20 PM
no. give me a direct quote.
full context.
Aww, that's cute.
"Almost forgotten in that famous speech were Kerry's controversial assertions that Vietnam veterans had "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephone to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.""
Aww, that's cute.
"Almost forgotten in that famous speech were Kerry's controversial assertions that Vietnam veterans had "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephone to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.""
he was reading testimony from OTHER vets who hade made those assertions at a veteran's meeting.
try again.
Aww, that's cute.
"Almost forgotten in that famous speech were Kerry's controversial assertions that Vietnam veterans had "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephone to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.""
quote of a quote of a quote..........still not a direct quote champ.
John Kerry, April 1971
Thank you very much, Senator Fulbright, Senator Javits, Senator Symington and Senator Pell.
I would like to say for the record, and also for the men sitting behind me who are also wearing the uniforms and their medals, that my sitting here is really symbolic. I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of a group of 1,000, which is a small representation of a very much larger group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table, they would be here and have the same kind of testimony. I would simply like to speak in general terms. I apologize if my statement is general because I received notification [only] yesterday that you would hear me, and, I am afraid, because of the injunction I was up most of the night and haven't had a great deal of chance to prepare.
I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago, in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia. These were not isolated incidents, but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis, with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit--the emotions in the room, and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.
They told stories that, at times, they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam,in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.
more at:
http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/04/08/ale04035.html
Cpt. Krunk
08-26-2004, 11:25 PM
quote of a quote of a quote..........still not a direct quote champ.
Oops, forgot the link.
http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061703.shtml
Navy Report Backs Kerry Role in Incident
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040825/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_vietnam_records&cid=694&ncid=1963&sid=96378798
WASHINGTON - A Navy report filed five days after a disputed incident in Vietnam supports John Kerry (news - web sites)'s version and contradicts critics who say the Democratic presidential nominee never came under enemy gunfire when he won two medals.
more....
--------------------------
Swift Boat Writer Lied on Cambodia Claim
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&u=/ap/20040825/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_critic_swift_boats_1&printer=1
WASHINGTON - The chief critic of John Kerry (news - web sites)'s military record told President Nixon in 1971 that he had been in Cambodia in a swift boat during the Vietnam War — a claim at odds with his recent statements that he was not.
"I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border," said John E. O'Neill in a conversation that was taped by the former president's secret recording system. The tape is stored at the National Archives in College Park, Md.
In an interview with The Associated Press on Wednesday, O'Neill did not dispute what he said to Nixon, but insisted he was never actually in Cambodia.
"I think I made it very clear that I was on the border, which is exactly where I was for three months. I was about 100 yards from Cambodia," O'Neill said in clarifying the June 16, 1971, conversation with Nixon.
Chad Clanton, a spokesman for the Democratic presidential candidate, said the tape "is just the latest in a long line of lies and false statements from a group trying to smear John Kerry's military service. Again, they're being proven liars with their own words. It's time for President Bush (news - web sites) to stand up and specifically condemn this smear."
more......
---------------------------------------
Ex-Swift boat skipper praises Kerry
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04237/366585.stm
For 35 years, Rich Baker seldom talked about Vietnam, Swift boats or John Kerry's ability as a young naval officer.
John Heller, Post-Gazette
Rich Baker, 61, of Scott, who served as a Swift boat commander in Vietnam with Sen John F. Kerry, holds a model of the boat as he talks about Kerry's service yesterday.
But now, with Republican partisans challenging Kerry's wartime record, Baker said he feels compelled to strike back.
"Every Swift boat officer gave his all in Vietnam, but Kerry stood above the rest of us," said Baker, 61, of Scott, a former Navy lieutenant and Swift boat commander. "He was number one as far as courageousness and aggressiveness. He set the tone."
Campaign aides to Kerry, the Democratic candidate for president, yesterday asked Baker to speak out publicly to counter television ads attacking Kerry's military record.
Baker, who ran a bakery after coming home from Vietnam, complied. He granted a handful of interviews and agreed to appear today at a Pittsburgh news conference organized by the Kerry campaign.
Morpheus
08-26-2004, 11:36 PM
I gave myself a Boo-Boo, now give me a Purple Heart. :eyesjack:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
I’d rather have a beer with Bush…
stretch-d
08-26-2004, 11:50 PM
Here's a direct quote made by Kerry...
“I committed the same kinds of atrocities as thousands of others,” said Kerry as an anti-war activist guest on NBC’s Meet the Press (quoted in Brinkley’s book, page 362) after he returned stateside, “in that I shot in free fire zones, fired .50-caliber machine [gun] bullets, used harass-and-interdiction fire, joined in search-and-destroy missions, and burned villages. All of these acts are contrary to the laws of the Geneva Convention, and all were ordered as written, established policies from the top down, and the men who ordered this are war criminals.”
Even if Bush was awol...which I don't believe...He never said/did anything like that^^^.
I think that Kerry should answer the questions about those things specificly.
What's more...Since he knew of people besides himself who were committing war crimes, why if he was so concerned, didn't he alert the authorities? Some would consider him to be an accomplice to those crimes at the very least because of that.
What's more...Since he knew of people besides himself who were committing war crimes, why if he was so concered, didn't he alert the authorities?
What did you expect him to do? Call 911?
As far as war crimes......war is ugly, you can probably scrounge up something ugly about any soldier who served on the front lines....that's why most don't talk about it when they get back....let's be realistic.
But I must say, Kerry should have never brought up his war service as part of the campaign because now it's out of control.
EET FUK
08-27-2004, 12:02 AM
im waiting to see someone post Bushs positives that hes done.
and besides, that book is over 20 years old. people grow up, obviously you didnt.
Here's a direct quote made by Kerry...
“I committed the same kinds of atrocities as thousands of others,” said Kerry as an anti-war activist guest on NBC’s Meet the Press (quoted in Brinkley’s book, page 362) after he returned stateside, “in that I shot in free fire zones, fired .50-caliber machine [gun] bullets, used harass-and-interdiction fire, joined in search-and-destroy missions, and burned villages. All of these acts are contrary to the laws of the Geneva Convention, and all were ordered as written, established policies from the top down, and the men who ordered this are war criminals.”
Even if Bush was awol...which I don't believe...He never said/did anything like that^^^.
I think that Kerry should answer the questions about those things specificly.
What's more...Since he knew of people besides himself who were committing war crimes, why if he was so concered, didn't he alert the authorities? Some would consider him to be an accomplice to those crimes at the very least because of that.
falls far short of claiming to have killed babies.
More than 3 million vietnamese died during that war.
Were they all military?
More than 50k americans died, were they all during gunfights?
It's proven that war crimes occured on both sides of the war.
And he said that the men who ordered this are war criminals.
Why did Bush dodge the war and then not bother to show up for duty during 72-73?
Bush claims to have supported the government during the war. Yet he got into the national guard ahead of many other men, and then did not even bother to show up for months at a time. And why was he grounded from flying? What did they find during his physical? He brags about his strong health and being fit. Was there something wrong with his blood tests?
EET FUK
08-27-2004, 12:04 AM
furthermore, im sick of people who have it in their heads that vets should be proud of going to vietnam. it was a fucking losing war created by republican assholes like you to generate those billions of dollars that the war produced every year. we lost thousands of good people FOR NO FUCKING REASON.
yeah, be proud you were sent to fight in a war we shouldnt have had any part of.
240sxboi
08-27-2004, 12:07 AM
Shut up.
great point. i guess this is what people say when they don't do any research.
stretch-d
08-27-2004, 12:09 AM
furthermore, im sick of people who have it in their heads that vets should be proud of going to vietnam. it was a fucking losing war created by republican assholes like you to generate those billions of dollars that the war produced every year. we lost thousands of good people FOR NO FUCKING REASON.
yeah, be proud you were sent to fight in a war we shouldnt have had any part of.
You obviously understand very little about your country and valour...
I bet you don't even know why we went to war in Vietnam...You have 3 mins. to reply--or I'll know that you did a search.
I bet you don't even know why we went to war in Vietnam...
Any assclown knows that, let me put it in caps and in big letters so your slow ass can get it
COMMIES + RED SCARE = "WE HAVE TO GO INTO VIETNAM RIGHT NOW"
I'll give you 30 seconds to tell me what side the majority of the Vietnamese ended up siding with :o
ormand
08-27-2004, 12:18 AM
What this boils down to, as it has been for the past 20 years, is voting for the lesser of 2 evils.
Both candidates have there nasty side. Both candidates have there positive contributions. We can argue them over and over again and again, but at the end of the day, it really is just a matter of personal preference and which side of the ethical spectrum you lye on.
Personally, I am voting for Kerry because:
Things I like about him:
1) He stood up and protested America and brought to the attention of many americans and the congress the horrific events that were being committed by Americans in Vietnam. Whether you like it or not, women WERE getting raped (I did a report on it for my Constituitional Law class - Dr. Karp loved it :thumb: ), innocent civilians WERE being tortured and killed, etc. Saying that it was "UnAmerican" for Kerry to speak to congress about the Truth is offensive. Decent is what formed this great nation.
2) He is a far, far better speaker than Bush. Then again, so is Mike Tyson. :ugh2:
Things I DONT Like about Bush that will force me to side with Kerry:
1) Patriot Act, ESPECIALLY Patriot Act 2 that quietly passed last year Christmas, when the media was spending there effort covering the Sadaam capture. Patriot Act was bad, but it can be excused as an alarmist reaction to 9/11...Patriot Act 2 is straight out of the book, "1984".
2) His foreign policy, namely the whole Iraqi conflict, has led to the worst international isolation I have ever seen in my life. It will take years, maybe decades to rebuild the trust we used to enjoy ever since WW1. The decision to go ahead and attack Iraq without UN Presence was an arrogant move that, unfortunately, is representative of the American people.
3) His wordings, "Axis of Evil", "you are either with us or with the terrorists", "crusades"...very scary things to say. Almost Hitler-esque. :-/
4) Bush is playing 9/11 like OJ played the Race Card. Pathetic.
Whether you agree or disagree with some of the points I brought out (and God knows, I have many :)), I think we can all agree on something: EVERYONE needs to vote. I think we will see record numbers of voters this year, partly because of the whole "hanging chad" thing in Flordia during the 2000 election, but also because of the polarization this election is setting forth amongst the American populous.
Ormand :gayz:
Any assclown knows that, let me put it in caps and in big letters so your slow ass can get it
MUSLIMS + BAIT AND SWITCH = "WE HAVE TO GO INTO IRAQ RIGHT NOW"
I'll give you 30 seconds to tell me what side the majority of the Iraqis ended up siding with :o
Benny
08-27-2004, 12:20 AM
http://posttmp.entensity.net/082404/agd.jpg
:kekegay: :kekegay: :kekegay:
http://posttmp.entensity.net/082404/agd.jpg
:kekegay: :kekegay: :kekegay:
sad thing is, i don't think that was photoshopped.
:roflmao:
stretch-d
08-27-2004, 12:26 AM
Any assclown knows that, let me put it in caps and in big letters so your slow ass can get it
COMMIES + RED SCARE = "WE HAVE TO GO INTO VIETNAM RIGHT NOW"
I'll give you 30 seconds to tell me what side the majority of the Vietnamese ended up siding with :o
Well, you proved that you don't know either...
but wait...what happened to "no political debates" Samir?...
Has it been a week already?
Well, you proved that you don't know either...
but wait...what happened to "no political debates" Samir?...
Has it been a week already?
I think it was because JFK (war hero) sent too many advisers in and then LBJ (dumb Texan) didn't know when to say "enough already."
juanschwartz
08-27-2004, 12:34 AM
but Kerry IS a senator and did nothing with it!.....PROVEN.......fact as you state it should be that he is a senator and has done wonders, but actually he has voted against every military bill ever thought of..........again, please research and comment on facts, cause I am seriously wanting to learn more about this.....
Summary
Bush ads released April 26 recycle some distortions of Kerry's voting record on military hardware. We've de-bunked these half-truths before but the Bush campaign persists.
The ads -- many targeted to specific states -- repeat the claim that Kerry opposed a list of mainstream weapons including Bradley Fighting Vehicles and Apache helicopters, and also repeat the claim that he voted against body armor for frontline troops in Iraq. In fact, Kerry voted against a few large Pentagon money bills, of which Bradleys, Apaches and body armor were small parts, but not against those items specifically.
Analysis
On April 26 the Bush campaign released a total of 10 ads, all repeating claims that Kerry opposed a list of mainstream military hardware "vital to winning the war on terror."
Bush Ad: National Version
"Weapons"
Bush: I’m George W. Bush and I approve this message.
Announcer: As our troops defend America in the War on Terror, they must have what it takes to win. Yet, John Kerry has repeatedly opposed weapons vital to winning the War on Terror: Bradley Fighting Vehicles, Patriot Missiles, B-2 Stealth Bombers, F-18 Fighter Jets and more.
Kerry even voted against body armor for our troops on the front line of the War on Terror. John Kerry’s record on national security: Troubling.
Misleading Claims
The claims are misleading, as we've pointed out before in articles we posted on Feb. 26 and March 16. The Bush campaign bases its claim mainly on Kerry's votes against overall Pentagon money bills in 1990, 1995 and 1996, but these were not votes against specific weapons. And in fact, Kerry voted for Pentagon authorization bills in 16 of the 19 years he's been in the Senate. So even by the Bush campaign's twisted logic, Kerry should -- on balance -- be called a supporter of the "vital" weapons, more so than an opponent.
The claim that Kerry voted against body armor is based similarly on Kerry's vote last year against an $87 billion emergency supplemental appropriation bill to finance military operations and reconstruction efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. It included $300 million for the latest, ceramic-plate type of body armor for troops who had been sent to war without it. The body-armor funds amounted to about 1/3 of one percent of the total.
Missing Context
It is true that when Kerry first ran for the Senate in 1984 he did call specifically for canceling the AH-64 Apache helicopter, but once elected he opposed mainly such strategic weapons as Trident nuclear missiles and space-based anti-ballistic systems. And Richard Cheney himself, who is now Vice President but who then was Secretary of Defense, also proposed canceling the Apache helicopter program five years after Kerry did.
As Cheney told the House Armed Services Committee on Aug. 13, 1989:
Cheney: The Army, as I indicated in my earlier testimony, recommended to me that we keep a robust Apache helicopter program going forward, AH-64; . . . I forced the Army to make choices. I said, "You can't have all three. We don't have the money for all three." So I recommended that we cancel the AH-64 program two years out. That would save $1.6 billion in procurement and $200 million in spares over the next five years.
Two years later Cheney's Pentagon budget also proposed elimination of further production of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle as well. It was among 81 Pentagon programs targeted for termination, including the F-14 and F-16 aircraft. "Cheney decided the military already has enough of these weapons," the Boston Globe reported at the time.
Does that make Cheney an opponent of "weapons vital to winning the war on terror?" Of course not. But by the Bush campaign's logic, Cheney himself would be vulnerable to just such a charge, and so would Bush's father, who was president at the time.
McCain Defends Kerry, Criticizes "Bitter" Rhetoric
Kerry's voting record on military spending was defended March 18 by Republican Sen. John McCain. He said on CBS's "The Early Show:"
McCain: No, I do not believe that he is, quote, weak on defense. He's responsible for his voting record, as we are all responsible for our records, and he'll have to explain it. But, no, I do not believe that he is necessarily weak on defense.
McCain also criticized "bitter and partisan" attacks by both sides, saying, " This kind of rhetoric, I think, is not helpful in educating and helping the American people make a choice."
McCain is heading Bush's re-election efforts in Arizona. And speaking of Arizona, it was among nine states targeted by different versions of the same Bush ad.
Bush Ad: State Version
"Arizona Weapons"
Bush: I’m George W. Bush and I approve this message.
Announcer: As our troops defend
America in the War on Terror, they must have what it takes to win. Yet, John Kerry has repeatedly opposed weapons vital to winning the War on Terror: Apache Helicopters, Tomahawk Cruise Missiles, and components of F-18 Fighter Jets all built here in Arizona.
Kerry even voted against body armor for our troops on the front line of the War on Terror. John Kerry’s record on national security: Troubling.
Targeting Arizona
The state ads made mention of specific weapons -- supposedly opposed by Kerry -- manufactured in those states. The Arizona version mentioned Apache helicopters, Tomahawk cruise missiles and F-18 aircraft "all built here in Arizona."
The other ads were aimed at Arkansas, Florida, Maine, Michigan, Missouri, New Hampshire, Ohio and Pennsylvania. All added a similar pork-barrel appeal to the basic attack on Kerry for undermining the "war on terror." And all gave an equally false impression of Kerry's actual voting record.
Sources
Richard Cheney "Hearings of the House Armed Services Committee, Fiscal 1990 Defense Budget" 13 July 1989
Fred Kaplan "Bush's 1992 Budget: Plan includes a $ 3.7b military cut" Boston Globe, 5 Feb 1991.
Nancy Benac, "McCain Says Kerry Not Weak on Defense," The Associated Press 18 March 2004.
National Journal's Congress Daily, "McCain, Differing From GOP Leaders, Defends Kerry On Defense," 18 March 2004.
stretch-d
08-27-2004, 12:35 AM
I think it was because JFK (war hero) sent too many advisers in and then LBJ (dumb Texan) didn't know when to say "enough already."
Look...I'm not giving the Presidents a 'pass'....I just think that they should have fought to win and not let the political winds blow a victory out of our hands.
I know that we could have won if we didn't defeat ourselves. We all know how Kerry fits into this picture. That's probably the biggest reason why I'm opposed to him.
juanschwartz
08-27-2004, 01:16 AM
Don't think I'm defending Kerry... John Kerry is a douche bag, but I'm voting for him anyway. (http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.c om/)
stretch-d
08-27-2004, 01:32 AM
Don't think I'm defending Kerry... John Kerry is a douche bag, but I'm voting for him anyway. (http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.c om/)
I can hear it now...."I'm John Kerry--and I approve this message". :roflmao: :roflmao:
Morpheus
08-27-2004, 08:51 AM
http://upload.houston-imports.com/uploaded/kerry_wafflehouse.jpg
MuddyJEEP.com
08-27-2004, 09:26 AM
Navy Report Backs Kerry Role in Incident
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040825/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_vietnam_records&cid=694&ncid=1963&sid=96378798
WASHINGTON - A Navy report filed five days after a disputed incident in Vietnam supports John Kerry (news - web sites)'s version and contradicts critics who say the Democratic presidential nominee never came under enemy gunfire when he won two medals.
more....
--------------------------
Swift Boat Writer Lied on Cambodia Claim
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&u=/ap/20040825/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_critic_swift_boats_1&printer=1
WASHINGTON - The chief critic of John Kerry (news - web sites)'s military record told President Nixon in 1971 that he had been in Cambodia in a swift boat during the Vietnam War — a claim at odds with his recent statements that he was not.
"I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border," said John E. O'Neill in a conversation that was taped by the former president's secret recording system. The tape is stored at the National Archives in College Park, Md.
In an interview with The Associated Press on Wednesday, O'Neill did not dispute what he said to Nixon, but insisted he was never actually in Cambodia.
"I think I made it very clear that I was on the border, which is exactly where I was for three months. I was about 100 yards from Cambodia," O'Neill said in clarifying the June 16, 1971, conversation with Nixon.
Chad Clanton, a spokesman for the Democratic presidential candidate, said the tape "is just the latest in a long line of lies and false statements from a group trying to smear John Kerry's military service. Again, they're being proven liars with their own words. It's time for President Bush (news - web sites) to stand up and specifically condemn this smear."
more......
---------------------------------------
Ex-Swift boat skipper praises Kerry
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04237/366585.stm
For 35 years, Rich Baker seldom talked about Vietnam, Swift boats or John Kerry's ability as a young naval officer.
John Heller, Post-Gazette
Rich Baker, 61, of Scott, who served as a Swift boat commander in Vietnam with Sen John F. Kerry, holds a model of the boat as he talks about Kerry's service yesterday.
But now, with Republican partisans challenging Kerry's wartime record, Baker said he feels compelled to strike back.
"Every Swift boat officer gave his all in Vietnam, but Kerry stood above the rest of us," said Baker, 61, of Scott, a former Navy lieutenant and Swift boat commander. "He was number one as far as courageousness and aggressiveness. He set the tone."
Campaign aides to Kerry, the Democratic candidate for president, yesterday asked Baker to speak out publicly to counter television ads attacking Kerry's military record.
Baker, who ran a bakery after coming home from Vietnam, complied. He granted a handful of interviews and agreed to appear today at a Pittsburgh news conference organized by the Kerry campaign.
the new swift boat commercial is supposedly, and I say that because I wasnt there, but he was supposedly on John's boat and he is the one who has, as of yesterday came forward and said what kerry wrote in that report of the conflict....well, he said there was no conflict of sorts........ :D
its also funny how kerry said he was in cambodia on Christmas..."image seared in his brain"...yet, facts are he was never in cambodia.....then kerry says...Oh yeah, my bad...really wasnt there...ooops.....
civperc
08-27-2004, 03:33 PM
That's a slap in the face to everyone who has served and died in Vietnam.
How can anyone support a person who has thrown his medals back at the White House?
...and wants to be our president? :yeahno:
exactly.
Mobil1
08-27-2004, 03:43 PM
Any assclown knows that, let me put it in caps and in big letters so your slow ass can get it
COMMIES + RED SCARE = "WE HAVE TO GO INTO VIETNAM RIGHT NOW"
I'll give you 30 seconds to tell me what side the majority of the Vietnamese ended up siding with :o
most people dont even know the political policy that put us in vietnam. :-/
ProjectMR2
08-27-2004, 06:08 PM
In the book he made a bunch of things up. The unit he was with came together and wrote a book about what really happend. Karry got pissed and basicly said they were all liers. Groups that suport karry sent letters and called the publishers threatening them. Then they threated the book stores to try and keep them from selling it. I think the book is either number 1 or 2 on New York Times best sellers list.
(sorry for the spelling, in a hurry)
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